Analysis The go home factor, equalisation, draftees requesting trades

[Jack Richards]

We did. We got a mid-first round pick and a late first-round pick for the GOAT.

What did we get out of him, though? Just two flags and a Brownlow.

That's fine if you think that, but plenty of other clubs don't get fair value. Brisbane lost 4 first round pick players who all wanted to "go home" awhile ago. They ended up with a bunch of second rounders.

Once a player nominates a club that club automatically loses value as the other club automatically has bargaining power since they know the player only wants to play for them.

Players have too much power nowadays. They got Free Agency (and they are wanting the age lowered) but what do clubs get? Nothing. Even Hardwick has said that by the time a player reach their prime at the moment, many have asked for trades home. For some interstate or lower positioned clubs this is problematic as they have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars putting resources into a player.

If players are wanting more, then clubs should get more say too (Hardwick is a fan of this idea).

 

[Jack Richards]

So in other words, players can be traded wherever the clubs like in the first x years of their career, without the need for player approval? Come on.

Yep.

Look at Ollie Henry's case: Wants a trade as he is "Homesick".. why can't he move to Geelong and travel the 70 odd km for work? Many every day people travel it. Is he too precious to do the trip?

In all these other "Homesick" cases each state has at least 2 clubs. Why is JHF refusing to let Adelaide get his service and only wanting Port?

Why did Polec do the same when he moved from Brisbane (When Adelaide offered Bris better offer?) Why couldn't Bruhn allow any other Vic club bid for his service?

Better yet, How do many other professional athlete in major sports with trading and Free Agency, handle being traded freely against their will but ours are marshmellows?


Look at most of the recent trade request and equalisation isn't working as they are wanting trades to more succesful clubs. The outliers this year are Logue, Crozier to North and Hunt to Eagles.

Only way to ensure more equal opportunity is to have players traded where clubs get best value and that's:

• Players nominate a state
• Players give the club a list of 4 preferences to go to.
• Top clubs locked out of FA or trading (will never happen)
• Any player who seeks a trade doesn't get a choice of where they go (these are 18yr old adult so suck it up)

 

[RUNVS]

How I would fix equalisation.

• Bring in a points based draft and trade system, creating a fairer trade period and gives more flexibility for bottom teams in the draft to build their lists again.
• Lower the cap floor to 85% as it is nuts that the team in 18th has to pay almost the same to their players as the team in 1st, meaning bottom teams can't build a war chest.
• Make contracts public and allow players in top teams to actually see what players in other teams are earning, seeing that they are on less at a top team.
• Allow players to nominate a home state but not a specific team. They can set their terms in the contract length and amount they want though.
• Randomise the PSD, only randomising it after trade period has concluded. That way teams can't use the threat of getting a player in the PSD as they won't know if they will have pick 1 or 18 in the preseason draft.

 

[Jack Richards]

How I would fix equalisation.

• Bring in a points based draft and trade system, creating a fairer trade period and gives more flexibility for bottom teams in the draft to build their lists again.
• Lower the cap floor to 85% as it is nuts that the team in 18th has to pay almost the same to their players as the team in 1st, meaning bottom teams can't build a war chest.
• Make contracts public and allow players in top teams to actually see what players in other teams are earning, seeing that they are on less at a top team.
• Allow players to nominate a home state but not a specific team. They can set their terms in the contract length and amount they want though.
• Randomise the PSD, only randomising it after trade period has concluded. That way teams can't use the threat of getting a player in the PSD as they won't know if they will have pick 1 or 18 in the preseason draft.

I like that idea of lowering the salary cap floor. I would go one step further and allow them to bank this over more than 2 years (surely AFL can keep records of each club's contract situation).

Take Essendon. Yes we are a basket case at the moment. But we are trying to get someone like Bowes with our $3mill in cap but can't get someone of that calibre.

 

[eastfreo75]

The AFL has a massive contract transparency issue.

Too often players are asking for trades once their front loaded contract is over.

In the NFL if a player leaves before their contract is up that team is up for a dead money hit on their salary cap.

Cap space should transfer.

Let’s say Player X has a front loaded contract. $800k first year $500 Second year and $500k third year.

Players is traded out in the last year. $200k is take off the new team and the old team get $200k.

 

[NeutralFan]

• I know statistically the first rounders are more likely to have better players, I don't think the guarantee is as big as it should be and think we'd benefit from players playing a year in state leagues as 18 year olds, chance to fill their body more and play against men more often to really get much better clarity on who will make it.
• Guaranteed 3 years rookie (the draftees) contract (Category B International players are the only 'rookies' that should exist I despise the rookie list in the AFL) with a team option for fourth year. After that they can become a free agent but their drafted team is the only one that can pay whatever, any other teams would have a limit.
• If we're still going by the logic that players are asking for trades first 4 years, then that player has lost their right to more money after their 4th year.
• After 7 years in the AFL no team has any limit to how much they can pay one player. I think 7 years at 19 is fair enough for the team that initially drafted them to get prime years out of that player. Of course if the team doesn't take the 4th year or the player isn't offered a contract during their 5th or 6th season they become a FA (and all Unrestricted).
• However, for reference, The Golden State Warriors in the NBA are arguing for the next CBA to have the luxury tax rules rewritten to benefit them since 6 of their 7 highest paid players were drafted by them (2 still on rookie contracts). Which I believe to be a very fair argument. So I'd also benefit teams that have a huge majority of their team be full of players that were drafted by them.
• Get rid of concession on FA. With the above it'll incentivize the draft more but FA still useful to get one big fish or good fringe pieces to compliment what you've built (A team full of FA's would just have money dry up). and I love the points economy system in trades brought up here many times and even the bidding on draft night that I seen RUNVS suggest.
• Contracts should not be renegotiated when trading, keep the deal as is.

 

[Ricketz]

What about henry ? Probably lives closer to his mum than the mcg and still pulls home sickness.

What about perking and bailey Smith threatening non Victorian teams In pre draft interviews that they will leave if they are taken.

Yes they do have problems when their biggest equalisation tool is being manipulated

That's why teams have academies. I have never liked the idea of forcing kids to move away from their home state. The league could fix this up in a jiffy by doing away with draft picks and utilise cap bonuses instead. Interstate clubs could still pick up talent, and place kids on long term deals after discussing with a willing prospect, or aim for an established player who willingly wants to move instead.

Poorer performing clubs would have more room to pick up talent, and top end clubs would have to manage their cap space to remain competitive.

It's essentially what is happening now with pick packaging, any way - the only reason it looks bad is because so many clubs have no room to move in their cap.

It would stop signing unproven kids on backended contracts way over their market value, because if the team rises they could create a trap for themselves.

 

[Giant Pete]

Need to ask the NBA how they navigated their Players Association.

 

[Tom14]

Need to ask the NBA how they navigated their Players Association.

Don’t know about the NBA specifically but in the NFL’s case americas incredibly employer friendly labour laws help a hell of a lot.

Anyone arguing we should copy America’s approach to player associations is misguided imo. It’s absolutely bull to suggest that young people should be able to be traded to another state without their consent when they are on say 100-200k for a draftee, and barely more of a bottom of the list player. Yes, they earn more than the average 18-25 year old does, no it doesn’t make it right for their future to be out of their hands.

Extra contract years for draftees and then opening up free agency for those with as little as 4 years of service would help I think. Problem now is all the best FA are older guys 26+ who are often pretty focused on spending the last few years of their career contending.

If it was younger guys you might see more prepared to go somewhere for the pay and grow with a developing team.

 

[Usayed Givashe]

There’s also something a little bit unintentionally sexist about it, too. Hello, we’re trading you to Boston. Oh, your wife has a job here and enjoys it? That’s too bad

And?

It’s progressional sport mate, it’s not an accounting firm.

 

[FourthTimeAround]

and to all those whinging about rookies wanting to leave a club they had no choice in joining, like it’s the nba?
Can someone please post an nba rookie salary, vs an afl one?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Yep.

Look at Ollie Henry's case: Wants a trade as he is "Homesick".. why can't he move to Geelong and travel the 70 odd km for work? Many every day people travel it. Is he too precious to do the trip?

In all these other "Homesick" cases each state has at least 2 clubs. Why is JHF refusing to let Adelaide get his service and only wanting Port?

Why did Polec do the same when he moved from Brisbane (When Adelaide offered Bris better offer?) Why couldn't Bruhn allow any other Vic club bid for his service?

Better yet, How do many other professional athlete in major sports with trading and Free Agency, handle being traded freely against their will but ours are marshmellows?


Look at most of the recent trade request and equalisation isn't working as they are wanting trades to more succesful clubs. The outliers this year are Logue, Crozier to North and Hunt to Eagles.

Only way to ensure more equal opportunity is to have players traded where clubs get best value and that's:

• Players nominate a state
• Players give the club a list of 4 preferences to go to.
• Top clubs locked out of FA or trading (will never happen)
• Any player who seeks a trade doesn't get a choice of where they go (these are 18yr old adult so suck it up)

Aflpa will never agree to this so it is irrelevant.

 

[theGav56]

How about;
- Pre-draft players can stipulate openness to relocating interstate. If taken in the first round players who have indicated they are willing to move and are drafted by a non home state club can be contracted/extended to 3 years.

- in the draft, if a club selects a player who has stipulated they are unwilling to relocate interstate they can be live traded within the draft. eg Perkins doesn't want to relocate but Fremantle bid on him at pick 10. They can then consider pick trades from rival clubs using either live or future picks.

By doing this clubs are not penalised by players stipulating an unwillingness to relocate, and potentially benefit.

 

[Superstar swan]

How about;
- Pre-draft players can stipulate openness to relocating interstate. If taken in the first round players who have indicated they are willing to move and are drafted by a non home state club can be contracted/extended to 3 years.

- in the draft, if a club selects a player who has stipulated they are unwilling to relocate interstate they can be live traded within the draft. eg Perkins doesn't want to relocate but Fremantle bid on him at pick 10. They can then consider pick trades from rival clubs using either live or future picks.

By doing this clubs are not penalised by players stipulating an unwillingness to relocate, and potentially benefit.

I reckon about 93.6% of the Victorian mummy's boys umm I mean family orientated players would say they are not willing to relocate

 

[RUNVS]

I reckon about 93.6% of the Victorian mummy's boys umm I mean family orientated players would say they are not willing to relocate

Basically any Victorian who is basically guaranteed to be drafted. The only Victorian players who wouldn't would be the ones who are on the cusp of not being drafted as they would be a lot less picky.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

View on Henry nominating Geelong?

Not like there is 9 other clubs in Victoria?

Bruhn nominating Geelong after 2 seasons?

Tim Kelly went home after two years.
Jordan Clark went home after 3 years.
Nathan Kreuger left after 3 years.

So it goes both ways, for all clubs. People complaining about these deals are probably the same fans rejoicing that their club has lured Rankine home, or got Taranto’s services. And so on and so on.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

3 of the biggest trades/moves in this trade period all involve players from Vic clubs going to non Vic clubs (Jackson, Dunkley and JH-F) so I am not sure if The Victorian Clubs have a massive advantage over interstate clubs in that way..

 

[Spook]

Just the latest example of how broken the AFL “equalisation” landscape is.

A struggling team that is gutted from every angle kicked in the guts by a pretentious bogan child who would have been actively egged on by a stronger team to create this disruption.

He will leave, North will get two shiny new toys and the spiral will happen again in a few years time.

First round draft picks should be mandatory 3 year contracts with the club/player given the option to extend and increase terms from the 3rd year.

A douchebag like this kid would probably still request a trade but most others would at least have time to mature and learn to live away from home.

The current system is only creating have’s and have not’s and condemning smaller clubs to be AFL Development teams to be picked off. It’s shithouse and doesn’t enthuse fans to continue.

Its also the clubs responsibility to do their due diligence and resuce the risk. In the last few years Freo and west coast havepredominantly drafted west Aussie and have been very successful with the likes of Barrass at 53, Allenn at 21, Driscoll 27 and Walker 50
North, in their position could have reduces the risk and gone for a Victorian


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[theGav56]

I reckon about 93.6% of the Victorian mummy's boys umm I mean family orientated players would say they are not willing to relocate

Then they have shafted their careers because they don't get drafted and won't fit into Victorian clubs beet 22

Also, indicating they don't want to move doesn't mean they can't get drafted. In my example, Fremantle draft Perkins and then can field in-draft trades for him. If nobody buys in he goes to Fremantle just as he would now.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Its also the clubs responsibility to do their due diligence and resuce the risk. In the last few years Freo and west coast havepredominantly drafted west Aussie and have been very successful with the likes of Barrass at 53, Allenn at 21, Driscoll 27 and Walker 50
North, in their position could have reduces the risk and gone for a Victorian


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So do you suggest we do like the AFLW side and just draft from NSW?

60% of draftable talent comes from VIC, it then drops from WA, SA and the rest.

GWS like all clubs does a mountain of work on psyche testing and interviews of players and their families. They talk to coaches, managers, team mates.

The kids are coached by managers to give model answers. Some of them are more upfront about wanting to stay closer to family/friends but in reality not many of them really know. They are 17 and 18yo’s…I’m fairly mature but when I was that age I did t want to live away from home.

Then you add to the mix we have hardly any fans, the sport is not super popular and if the team isn’t winning it’s a complete dead zone.

The AFL and all participants need to understand if they want a national competition and all the commercial benefits that come with that there needs to be genuine equalization measures for the smaller minnows.

If you don’t do it they are effectively feeder development teams. Now that works perfectly for a bunch of people, particularly influential presidents and people on the commission but it does nothing to develop and grow the game.

Right now there is very little hope for GWS and Gold Coast supporters. I know there are very few of us but it still should be a consideration when managing the sport.

 

[Duskfire]

I don't think it is as big a problem as it is made out to be. If it was only one state getting all the benefits sure, but it is not; there is movement back and forth. The only major concern really is Gold Coast and GWS unable to retain players unless they typically them more than what they would normally get.

 

[Robroy22]

So do you suggest we do like the AFLW side and just draft from NSW?

60% of draftable talent comes from VIC, it then drops from WA, SA and the rest.

GWS like all clubs does a mountain of work on psyche testing and interviews of players and their families. They talk to coaches, managers, team mates.

The kids are coached by managers to give model answers. Some of them are more upfront about wanting to stay closer to family/friends but in reality not many of them really know. They are 17 and 18yo’s…I’m fairly mature but when I was that age I did t want to live away from home.

Then you add to the mix we have hardly any fans, the sport is not super popular and if the team isn’t winning it’s a complete dead zone.

The AFL and all participants need to understand if they want a national competition and all the commercial benefits that come with that there needs to be genuine equalization measures for the smaller minnows.

If you don’t do it they are effectively feeder development teams. Now that works perfectly for a bunch of people, particularly influential presidents and people on the commission but it does nothing to develop and grow the game.

Right now there is very little hope for GWS and Gold Coast supporters. I know there are very few of us but it still should be a consideration when managing the sport.

I'm glad you have made this point. And this is where the "get them home after draft contracts" starts. Kids aren't given the support (to stay at their drafted clubs) from their families, friends, managers because THEY all want them home and have been conditioned by the HOME clubs to believe this is normal practice.

 

[The Passenger]

Don’t know about the NBA specifically but in the NFL’s case americas incredibly employer friendly labour laws help a hell of a lot.

This x 1000 and a hell of a lot of the suggestions people are making just would not fly in Australia where our labour laws are much friendlier to the worker (thank god!!).

The AFL cares about keeping in place two things - the draft and the salary cap, neither of which would fly if they were challenged. Terry Hill led the charge to get rid of the draft system in the NRL (NSWRL at the time) and the High Court gave it the ass. How the draft legal challenge galvanised players

The AFL knows the same fate would beset their drafting system if it went that far.

The draft and the salary cap are the two key pillars of equalisation and everything else is just window dressing, so to keep them in place the AFL pretty much has to bend to whatever the AFLPA wants.

 

[Spook]

So do you suggest we do like the AFLW side and just draft from NSW?

60% of draftable talent comes from VIC, it then drops from WA, SA and the rest.

Nice rant, I agree with your points..... But as clearly written in my thread I referred to North, West Coast, and Freo. Nowhere did I talk about the GWS retention issues ... so chill bro.

Another interesting take on West Coast is that 3 of their last 4 captains have been non-West Australians.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Nice rant, I agree with your points..... But as clearly written in my thread I referred to North, West Coast, and Freo. Nowhere did I talk about the GWS retention issues ... so chill bro.

We are on edge bro! Getting gutted again. I need a hug.