Analysis The go home factor, equalisation, draftees requesting trades

[Art Vandelay_]

Lets face it as a Geelong fan you're not going to favour any moves that make it harder to get players from bottom feeder clubs.

Lost Tim Kelly after 2 seasons.
Lost Jordan Clark after 3 seasons.
Could lose Stephens after 3 seasons.

We don't have a history chasing young players.. Or have you forgotten the years of Dad's Army jokes as we top up with experienced players.
So you don't really have a valid point here.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Elmer_Judd

Paul Connors (player manager) when prompted about extending initial contracts from 2 to 3 years... "be careful what you wish for"... "the overwhelming majority extend and stay".

Do we extend because the small handful move or implore clubs to research prospective draftees better. I'd lean towards the latter.

Paul Connors clearly has his own agenda and self-interests at heart here as a player agent.

We are also seeing a trend of recent 1st round picks on re-signing for an extra year or two and then go home afterwards (aka Luke Jackson)

Something needs to change imo (although I fear it won't, AFLPA has too much power and influence)

 

[Obeanie1]

The AFL needs to step in and get tough on clubs approaching 19 yr olds in contract with massive deals. Yes yr 2 stays the same as when drafted but getting $600k dangled in front of you x 6 years is pretty tempting for an immature 19yr old. You get home sick pretty quick when offered those $$$$.

It's poaching in every sense of the word.

 

[Duskfire]

The AFL needs to step in and get tough on clubs approaching 19 yr olds in contract with massive deals. Yes yr 2 stays the same as when drafted but getting $600k dangled in front of you x 6 years is pretty tempting for an immature 19yr old. You get home sick pretty quick when offered those $$$$.

It's poaching in every sense of the word.

Is poaching bad though? At the end of the day those players are being paid well, they aren't being forced out, it is all their own choice.

 

[Obeanie1]

Is poaching bad though? At the end of the day those players are being paid well, they aren't being forced out, it is all their own choice.

Within the first contract after being drafted it shouldnt be allowed.

Whats the point of a draft if the club with more money in 2 years just poaches thebest 19 yr olds.

After that first contract is done go for it.

 

[1990crow]

Maybe Father/Son should be eradicated. There's no real logic behind this relic of the past

It's purely a romantic thing

That'd be about right. Adelaide finally have a potential pick 1 in 2024 Tyler Welsh as a father son coming through.
AFL removes the rule after decades of Victorian club assistance.

 

[eastfreo75]

The issues for me are:
1. Suns and Giants leaking top draft picks
2. Third party payments

Solutions
1. If a player signs with the club they got drafted by get a 25% bonus outside the cap.

 

[shewho]

What the afl can do is limited by the law. Restrictive trade practices must be justified and reasonable. Simply not as simple as dreaming up a new rule or importing one from the nfl.

Outside the armed forces and the priesthood, how many industries give their workers no choice about which state they work in for their first 2 years?

 

[sabre_ac]

Is there anything that the AFL can take from the NBA's free agency policies?

Bird rights to kids from out of town etc?

Everything to know about 2024 NBA Free Agency

Understanding the NBA free agent process, key terminology, how it works, deadlines and the difference between restricted and unrestricted free agency.

www.nba.com

 

[Scotland]

Maybe the AFL can learn from the NFL instead.

Patrick Mahomes signed a 10 year $450m deal but only $140m of that is guaranteed.

If players don't value club contracts then why have them binding? Just let Gold Coast waive Jack Bowes

12

Jack Bowes

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.3

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

18.0

4star

K

11.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

318.1

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

and give him UFA status to sign wherever he likes.

The issue with trading is that 9 times out of 10 the only thing you can get for losing a player is picks. In the NBA at least trades have to match salaries. If you want Brodie Grundy

4

Brodie Grundy

Age

30

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

32.0

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

34.6

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

5.2

2star

HB

8.6

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

20.6

5star

and his $1m a year, you have to trade $1m worth of salary back the other way - or demonstrate that you are $1m under the cap.

 

[YellowAndBlack83]

To combat this, the AFL need to introduce 1 of 2 extremes. Either 1, your rookie contract IS YOUR ROOKIE CONTRACT and you must serve it no exceptions or bring in draft rights trading on draft night like the NBA with the main example being the swap of Chris Webber and Penny Hardaway in the 1993 NBA draft or when Kobe was drafted by the Charlotte Hornets and refused to play for them. I have no issue with Jackson, Bruhn or Henry leaving as they served their contracts, but JHF has made a mockery of the system.

 

[beatnik]

Paul Connors clearly has his own agenda and self-interests at heart here as a player agent.

We are also seeing a trend of recent 1st round picks on re-signing for an extra year or two and then go home afterwards (aka Luke Jackson)

Something needs to change imo (although I fear it won't, AFLPA has too much power and influence)

Do you fully understand the question you’re seeking to answer?

Why should interstate clubs (especially the northern ones) only be able to pick from a smaller subset of the entire talent pool?

 

[iameviljez]

Lets face it as a Geelong fan you're not going to favour any moves that make it harder to get players from bottom feeder clubs.

The wheel turns. I remember a previous lifetime where Leigh Colbert left, and we thought that Mitchell White was one helluva great trade deal for a club like Geelong.

Look, one day we will be down the bottom again, and it won't be so easy for us to go poaching. We don't have the huge supporter base and inner-Melbourne location of Collingwood, Richmond and Carlton to lean on. There'll be a time again when Geelong isn't a destination.

 

[iameviljez]

There are some good ideas in here... but for all the tinkering around contracts etc, there's one major problem at the heart of this that none of it fixes:
A lot of players prefer not to go to a northern expansion club.

That's what puts those two sides on the back foot - either the player is honest and they decide not to draft him, or the player isn't honest and he's lost to the club after two years.

This used to be the case with Brisbane - and what fixed it, was Robert Walls and a determined group of experienced players who made the club respectable.

 

[iameviljez]

The AFL needs to step in and get tough on clubs approaching 19 yr olds in contract with massive deals. Yes yr 2 stays the same as when drafted but getting $600k dangled in front of you x 6 years is pretty tempting for an immature 19yr old. You get home sick pretty quick when offered those $$$$.

It's poaching in every sense of the word.

It is poaching, but, as various clubs are starting to find out, large deals for players on the basis of potential can bite and bite very hard.

I assume you're referring to Luke Jackson in particular, but if he keeps reproducing 2022 Luke Jackson, he could well wind up being less Max Gawn and more Brodie Grundy.

One effect of Free Agency and greater player movement is that it has made salary cap really important for the first time since Essendon had to dismantle its 2000 flag side. Gold Coast, Collingwood, GWS, and to a lesser degree Hawthorn, have had to clear out players for cap space. Carlton hasn't been able to do much poaching because it's tied up in big contracts to McGovern, Martin, Williams and Cerra.

 

[Obeanie1]

It is poaching, but, as various clubs are starting to find out, large deals for players on the basis of potential can bite and bite very hard.

I assume you're referring to Luke Jackson in particular, but if he keeps reproducing 2022 Luke Jackson, he could well wind up being less Max Gawn and more Brodie Grundy.

One effect of Free Agency and greater player movement is that it has made salary cap really important for the first time since Essendon had to dismantle its 2000 flag side. Gold Coast, Collingwood, GWS, and to a lesser degree Hawthorn, have had to clear out players for cap space. Carlton hasn't been able to do much poaching because it's tied up in big contracts to McGovern, Martin, Williams and Cerra.

Luke Jackson no. He spent three seasons at Melbourne and was out of contract.

Boyd and JHF were 19 yr olds, 1 year into their first draftee contract.

Those players should not be approached with massive contracts to make them all of a sudden feel homesick.

This is the problem.

 

[iameviljez]

Luke Jackson no. He spent three seasons at Melbourne and was out of contract.

Boyd and JHF were 19 yr olds, 1 year into their first draftee contract.

Those players should not be approached with massive contracts to make them all of a sudden feel homesick.

This is the problem.

Clubs have the ability to say no, though. GWS could have held firm on Boyd, but the fact that they were already committed to Griffen didn't help. The same goes with Norf, though Horne-Francis' behaviour meant that losses were better off being cut.

It's fair to say that if it weren't for the 2016 GF, the Boyd contract would be seen as a massive bomb and a waste of what could have been a really nice draft pick. If JHF continues to have these behavioural issues, it's a big risk for Port.

I do think that a three or even four-year contract for Round 1 draftees is ideal.

 

[Bestbird]

Gws and Goldcoast should have a slightly higher salary cap due to the retention issues. The amount of players they lose each year has been constant for 10 years

 

[Obeanie1]

Clubs have the ability to say no, though. GWS could have held firm on Boyd, but the fact that they were already committed to Griffen didn't help. The same goes with Norf, though Horne-Francis' behaviour meant that losses were better off being cut.

It's fair to say that if it weren't for the 2016 GF, the Boyd contract would be seen as a massive bomb and a waste of what could have been a really nice draft pick. If JHF continues to have these behavioural issues, it's a big risk for Port.

I do think that a three or even four-year contract for Round 1 draftees is ideal.

3 to 4 yr contracts just won't happen. It's a restraint of trade. Like the AFL draft is.

As well as being unfair on the player.

2 years is fine if clubs stopped bribing 19 yr olds to feel homesick.

If a club can't encourage or satisfy a kid to stay after two years too bad.

 

[1990crow]

Gws and Goldcoast should have a slightly higher salary cap due to the retention issues. The amount of players they lose each year has been constant for 10 years

Agree there should be a COLA for these two clubs.
This for Sydney and Brisbane off there knees from the 90s when they were hopeless into the viable brands they are today.

 

[Underarm]

The issues for me are:
1. Suns and Giants leaking top draft picks
2. Third party payments

Solutions
1. If a player signs with the club they got drafted by get a 25% bonus outside the cap

The big Melbourne clubs have the least amount of players leaving, so they'd just use the money they have saved to throw it at talent from Non Victorian teams.

 

[iameviljez]

3 to 4 yr contracts just won't happen. It's a restraint of trade. Like the AFL draft is.

As well as being unfair on the player.

2 years is fine if clubs stopped bribing 19 yr olds to feel homesick.

If a club can't encourage or satisfy a kid to stay after two years too bad.

I don't get your logic - because we currently do have an AFL draft, despite it being restraint of trade.

I suspect that there would be some room in bargaining with the AFLPA to get at least three-year contracts in for first round players. There's a bit of an appetite across the league to stop this "go-home" factor.

To say "if clubs stopped bribing 19 year olds to feel homesick" - how do you suggest this? A gentleman's agreement? Because if Aaron Cadman does go to GWS, there's 10 Victorian clubs out there who would be derelict in their duty if they didn't keep in touch with him over the next two years.

 

[iameviljez]

Agree there should be a COLA for these two clubs.
This for Sydney and Brisbane off there knees from the 90s when they were hopeless into the viable brands they are today.

Yep, but don't call it COLA.

The other issue is that someone needs to have a serious look at brand identity for both these clubs. Gold Coast have the worst jumper and logo in the league - the Suns is a strong concept, but their logo needs to invoke a sun, not a stupid footy with 80s font.

GWS Giants... it's a stupid mascot, with a stupid team name that was designed by committee. As a result, it has no identity - the "orange team" screwup wouldn't be possible otherwise. Call them the Parramatta Brumbies or something and go from there. At least they got the colours and the song right.

 

[1990crow]

Yep, but don't call it COLA.

The other issue is that someone needs to have a serious look at brand identity for both these clubs. Gold Coast have the worst jumper and logo in the league - the Suns is a strong concept, but their logo needs to invoke a sun, not a stupid footy with 80s font.

GWS Giants... it's a stupid mascot, with a stupid team name that was designed by committee. As a result, it has no identity - the "orange team" screwup wouldn't be possible otherwise. Call them the Parramatta Brumbies or something and go from there. At least they got the colours and the song right.

GC absolutely need a decent Guernsey. It should have happened years ago.n

GWS I don't mind. I feel like they could have just called them Western Sydney though.
The Guernsey was actually more unique in the way they had the G to the side than it is now.

 

[Lana]

I'd get rid of the draft, get rid of the base salaries for first and 2nd year players so that they can get paid more if someone is willing to offer.

Have a variable cap based on the a teams ladder finishing position over the last three years.

Team finishes first then they get a cap multiplier of 0.9
Team finishes last then they get a cap multiplier of 1.1.

A team that finishes first three years in a row would have a cap of 0.729 times of the base cap while a team that finishes last three time in a row would have a cap 1.331 times of the base cap

Teams can trade contracted players for cap space, uncontracted players are 100% unrestricted free agents.

Good teams would be forced to leave a greater portion of players uncontracted at a time freeing up the player movement market.
Good teams would be unable to bring in highly rated new players as they wouldn't have the cap space to do it, even with retirements they'd be struggling to hold on their existing talent pool
.
Poorer teams will have plenty of incentive to bring new players into their team.