The hideous cost of staging the WC

[jihg]

By christ you're thick.

Think of it this way:

If you're renting a property and have a contract with the real estate agent, does the owner of the property have the right to enter the dwelling at any time they wish?

No, they have to ask for your (the tenants) permission.

If say your lease agreement runs through out 2010, and then in Feb 2010, the owner of the property wishes to hold a party at your house in October. You are being asked to vacate the premises for a week.

Does the owner have any legal right to do this?

No.

The owner of the property legally requires your permission to do so. And you can legally expect compensation IF you agree to this.

If the government want a property for something they do not own they compulsorily acquire it. Simple. If the government own something they do not have to compulsorily acquire it.

Nowhere did I say anything about who has what ****ing contract with who or what the **** they would have to do as a result of it. Comments were being made about the government acquiring the ground compulsorily but they would not have to do it do you ****ing get it now yes they would have to break contracts but that is not what I was saying.

 

[Giants FC]

I can answer that one, since I Googled Section 51(xxxi) of the Constitution last night; and again just now.

Once again, I add the disclaimer that I am not a lawyer and this post does not constitute legal advice. But the relevant High Court precedent to determine the definition of "property" is Minister of State for the Army v Dalziel (1944). In his judgement, Justice Starke said the term includes: "every species of valuable right and interest including real and personal property, incorporeal hereditaments such as rents and services, rights-of-way, rights of profit or use in land of another, and choses in action."
The AFL's contract with the MCG clearly falls within the definition of property; and any move by the government to legislate to deprive them of that lease would be a compulsory aquisition of property.

 

[invinciBlues]

Compulsory acquisition applies to matters like airports, roads, or temporary military bases during times of war.

IE: things that are necessary for the country's protection or advancement of infrastructure.

Not for festivals/carnivals/events regardless of their scale. That would set a precedent of the country being able to do whatever it wishes on a whim.

It would create a state that is all too similar to communism and no court would allow it.

 

[Giants FC]

The scope for compulsory acquisition, if my legal interpretations are correct, is that the government only has the power to compulsorily acquire property for their own purposes; not to transfer the property to another party.
As the government does not and can not run the World Cup, I don't see how they can have the constitutional power to compulsorily acquire property in order to transfer it to FIFA.

Are there any legal people on BigFooty who can either confirm or refute this?

 

[Blight von Torp]

^^^^

Exactly. If the AFL hold their ground should MCG compensation, etc, be inadequate - then Rudd has written FIFA a blank cheque with the State premiers based on the guarantee they last week. Can you get any more unaccountable? AFL definitely hold some very decent cards.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-boss-andrew-demetriou-only-road-block-to-world-cup-bid/story-e6frf9ix-1225808821039

A COURIER was last night in transit to Switzerland with the vital document that underwrites Australia's bid to host the World Cup, and leaves AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou isolated as its only major opponent.

Backed by a signed pledge from Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and the state premiers, the bid guarantee contract is en route to FIFA boss Sepp Blatter and provides a legal pledge that Australia's bid will meet all of FIFA's demands.

Despite Demetriou's posturing this week, threatening to derail the bid, Rudd and the state governments have effectively pledged that it will go on with or without the co-operation of the AFL, and the use of Etihad Stadium.

Perhaps FFA have been so vague because they know, no matter what, they have the AFL in their pocket.

 

[cos789]

The scope for compulsory acquisition, if my legal interpretations are correct, is that the government only has the power to compulsorily acquire property for their own purposes; not to transfer the property to another party.
As the government does not and can not run the World Cup, I don't see how they can have the constitutional power to compulsorily acquire property in order to transfer it to FIFA.

Are there any legal people on BigFooty who can either confirm or refute this?

Even with compulsory acquisition there is compensation .

.

 

[Barkly St End]

Even with compulsory acquisition there is compensation .

.

But G&F's point is that in this instance the Constitution wouldn't allow the Feds to compulsorily acquire the AFL's property rights because it wouldn't be for the use of the Commonwealth, but for the use of a private entity.

And a corrupt foreign entity no less!!

 

[cos789]

But G&F's point is that in this instance the Constitution wouldn't allow the Feds to compulsorily acquire the AFL's property rights because it wouldn't be for the use of the Commonwealth, but for the use of a private entity.

And a corrupt foreign entity no less!!

Yes , but I cannot confirm that , but it does sound right .

.

 

[Checker Hughes]

The paranoia in this thread and others is ridiculous.
There are massive benefits for all Australians for the sake of a 31 day event including stadium upgrades for AFL.
One 31 day event in our whole lifetime is all millions of us ask
You can have your wall to wall coverage of AFL for the other 28,000 days in our average 80 year lives no worries- we'll put up with it,regardless of whether we detest it or not

 

[cos789]

There are massive benefits for all Australians

Just show us the official Australian costings and prove it FFS .

including stadium upgrades for AFL.

What AFL stadium upgrades prey tell .

.

 

[invinciBlues]

The paranoia in this thread and others is ridiculous.
There are massive benefits for all Australians for the sake of a 31 day event including stadium upgrades for AFL.
One 31 day event in our whole lifetime is all millions of us ask
You can have your wall to wall coverage of AFL for the other 28,000 days in our average 80 year lives no worries- we'll put up with it,regardless of whether we detest it or not

You don't get something for nothing. If the soccer cup means that much to you, why not go overseas and see one?

The Superbowl is an amazing spectacle that I hope to one day witness in person, but I wouldn't want it here.

How about you stop being so insular and wanting everything to come to your doorstep?

Go out into the world and see it for yourself!

 

[Dasher39]

Just show us the official Australian costings and prove it FFS

It's been reported before that the World Cup will generate about $5b for the Australian economy.

What AFL stadium upgrades prey tell .

Adelaide Oval, Subiaco, MCG, Carrara.

 

[mattwinter]

Just show us the official Australian costings and prove it FFS .

Money isn't everything. The sheer joy every Australian will get from seeing the biggest event in the world hosted in our backyard is worth every penny.

Not to mention that we'll have better venues to go and watch our A-league and NRL teams in for years - can't wait!

 

[jihg]

But G&F's point is that in this instance the Constitution wouldn't allow the Feds to compulsorily acquire the AFL's property rights because it wouldn't be for the use of the Commonwealth, but for the use of a private entity.

And a corrupt foreign entity no less!!

But the state government that owns the MCG could break the contract and go to court to pay compensation to the AFL thus leaving it for the WC.

 

[jihg]

It's been reported before that the World Cup will generate about $5b for the Australian economy.

Adelaide Oval, Subiaco, MCG, Carrara.

$5b how much are we spending to earn it? Do you have a link to these reports?

Adelaide for a start is being done anyway pretty sure Carrara is also.

 

[cos789]

It's been reported before that the World Cup will generate about $5b for the Australian economy.

Which doesn't repay the cost to the government .

Adelaide Oval, Subiaco, MCG, Carrara.

AO is due to an imminent election and is due an agreement brokered between cricket and the SANFL .
There is only a small increase in capacity over AAMI .
It is not due to the wc .

The MCG might right some really minor upgrade .
AFL and cricket are extremely happy there now .

Carrara is getting developed by the QLD government in a bid for Commonwealth games . It has nothing to do with the wc .

Subiaco . Well what can I say . The plan has gone from a $1 billion super stadium to possibly a staged rebuild of great inconvenience and small increase in capacity .

So where are these great benefits huh ?

,

 

[Barkly St End]

$5b how much are we spending to earn it? Do you have a link to these reports?

Adelaide for a start is being done anyway pretty sure Carrara is also.

About a year ago there were such reports - but they have since faded from sight.

Not even the PWC report for the FFA mentions anything so dramatic.

It's all BS.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Money isn't everything. The sheer joy every Australian will get from seeing the biggest event in the world hosted in our backyard is worth every penny.

Not to mention that we'll have better venues to go and watch our A-league and NRL teams in for years - can't wait!

WHAT MAKES YOU THINK EVERY AUSTALIAN WILL ECXPERIENCE SHEER JOY FROM A SOCCER TORNAMENT.

While you will no doubt be doing your best Meg Ryan impersonation while watching Drunk English guys with face paint on carrying on, others will, while still enjoying the event, fall somewhat short of the "Sheer Joy" you described.

Others will be impartial to the whole process, while others will detest it.

I don't know how the numbers will stack up but I know you are being very arrogant in stating that every australian will experience sheer joy.

Are you going to tell us all what food we like , or what car to drive?

 

[harmesy 37]

Money isn't everything. The sheer joy every Australian will get from seeing the biggest event in the world hosted in our backyard is worth every penny.

Not to mention that we'll have better venues to go and watch our A-league and NRL teams in for years - can't wait!

"the sheer joy" - these are the exact words Rudd and his cronies want to hear you saying.

They have you like putty in their hands. They buy elections with junk like this.

In Roman times when the plebians got a bit restless - what better way to buy them off than put on a fancy show at the coliseum.


Believe me, the people who will be smiling most are the politicians. They will smile 200 times more than you at their exclusive world cup parties.


You my friend have just been bought and owned by Rudd and Bracks.

 

[Barkly St End]

"the sheer joy" - these are the exact words Rudd and his cronies want to hear you saying.

They have you like putty in their hands. They buy elections with junk like this.

In Roman times when the plebians got a bit restless - what better way to buy them off than put on a fancy show at the coliseum.


Believe me, the people who will be smiling most are the politicians. They will smile 200 times more than you at their exclusive world cup parties.


You my friend have just been bought and owned by Rudd and Bracks.

That might all be true - but it's a pretty powerful position for soccer people to be in.

Lowy donates money to both parties - rudd writes a blank cheque to piss billions of taxpayer dollars against the wall - Government connives with the most currupt organisation on Earth - and unless someone with balls blows the whistle on all this fiscal waste, deceit and corruption - soccer ends up doing very nicely out of it.

 

[Barkly St End]

The question becomes: are there any decent politicians out there who aren't on Lowy's payroll?

 

[finders]

spend 2 billion to make 5 billion
sounds like good business to me

Got some FACTS to backup your silly statement?

 

[finders]

That might all be true - but it's a pretty powerful position for soccer people to be in.

Lowy donates money to both parties - rudd writes a blank cheque to piss billions of taxpayer dollars against the wall - Government connives with the most currupt organisation on Earth - and unless someone with balls blows the whistle on all this fiscal waste, deceit and corruption - soccer ends up doing very nicely out of it.

You my friend are right on the money!

Lowey didnt get to be a billionaire in his lifetime by being straight and the old former zionist certainly knows how to play the political game in Australia and Israel! Of course his company gives about the same amount to both sides - that way you own then both!

As I have said before let him and his baby the FFA pay for it themselves if they want it so much and it will make them a lot of money accoring to Lowey and his mates.

BTW take Loweys money away from the fast failing A League and it would fold overnight.Apart from Victory the rest are back to NSL crowds.LOL

 

[Barkly St End]

As I have said before let him and his baby the FFA pay for it themselves if they want it so much and it will make them a lot of money accoring to Lowey and his mates.

That would be the fairest thing - if its a financial bonanza - the FFA should be able to find the necessary private equity partners to fund the whole thing - the Government need not spend a cent of taxpayer money.

I'm fine with private equity pocketing the squillions of dollars to be made if they have made the investment.

 

[finders]

That would be the fairest thing - if its a financial bonanza - the FFA should be able to find the necessary private equity partners to fund the whole thing - the Government need not spend a cent of taxpayer money.

I'm fine with private equity pocketing the squillions of dollars to be made if they have made the investment.

Yep thats the fairest way and with FINA also supposedly flush with money they could fund the whole shebang.

I just dont want our State and Federal govts squandering billions of our taxes on stadiums that will be massive white elephants in the future.FFS who is going to fill a 40,000 rec stadium when the A League cant get more than 20,000 to a game and most only pull about 8 - 10,000.