Society/Culture The left do not represent the poor anymore

[geelong_crazy26]

Just last night I watched some clips of the presidential debates between Trump and Clinton , at the time nearly everyone said Clinton won but looking back watching these clips I was reminded why Trump won the election . Trump was constantly talking about bringing back blue collar jobs , he was on and on about jobs jobs jobs while Clinton was talking about a range of things such as climate change and multiculturalism . This just highlights how it is the now the right not the left who give the poor what they need .

In Australia we see this too , the left are currently obsessed with matters such as same sex marriage and indigenous treaties which do nothing for the poor . There are 2 key areas of policy were the left are putting ideology ahead of the poor being immigration and climate change .

Its time to face up to the simple reality that the high levels of immigration we have in this country thanks to the left is making most Australians workers poorer . The economic value of everything as I am sure you all know is based on supply vs demand . The high levels of immigration we have are simply resulting in greater supply of workers making most workers especially those in less skilled jobs less valued .

Climate change is simply a left wing Trojan horse designed to weaken western civilisation . The cost of energy is so high in this country that the poor cant afford to turn the heating on and many are dying in the winter . High costs of energy is also resulting in the lose of many blue collar jobs in this country .

So why is the left no longer focusing on helping the poor ? the truth is the left today are very focused on what we would call inner city progressive people who either vote green on a very close to voting green . I learnt at a local liberal branch meeting that in the US election in some states Clinton got 90% of inner city votes while trump got 80% of rural votes in the same state , a similar trend is happening in Australia.

These inner city progressives are people who personally benefit from progressive polices and are often after feel good policies . For example changing the date of Australia makes these people feel good about themselves , though of like how a Christian would feel good after going to confession.

The take home message is that the left no longer represent the poor , they represent inner city progressive people many of whom are very rich .

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Just last night I watched some clips of the presidential debates between Trump and Clinton , at the time nearly everyone said Clinton won but looking back watching these clips I was reminded why Trump won the election . Trump was constantly talking about bringing back blue collar jobs , he was on and on about jobs jobs jobs while Clinton was talking about a range of things such as climate change and multiculturalism . This just highlights how it is the now the right not the left who give the poor what they need .

Sadly, the blue collar jobs coming back hasn't really occurred. Climate change affects the poor. Who do you think gets hurt the most with rising sea levels? The poor in many countries.

In Australia we see this too , the left are currently obsessed with matters such as same sex marriage and indigenous treaties which do nothing for the poor . There are 2 key areas of policy were the left are putting ideology ahead of the poor being immigration and climate change .

That's not true. Socialism is still alive in Australia. Furthermore, the indigenous treaties relate to a huge problem with indigenous welfare, and guess what, the indigenous are much more likely to be poor.

Climate change is simply a left wing Trojan horse designed to weaken western civilisation . The cost of energy is so high in this country that the poor cant afford to turn the heating on and many are dying in the winter . High costs of energy is also resulting in the lose of many blue collar jobs in this country .

Can I see some of these stats that show many poor are dying from being unable to turn on heating?

So why is the left no longer focusing on helping the poor ? the truth is the left today are very focused on what we would call inner city progressive people who either vote green on a very close to voting green . I learnt at a local liberal branch meeting that in the US election in some states Clinton got 90% of inner city votes while trump got 80% of rural votes in the same state , a similar trend is happening in Australia.

Social issues aren't the be all and end all. I can't help but think you're also suggesting that the white poor are more important than non-white poor.

Basically, you're suggesting that an entire group of people the 'left' care about one thing. Is it now impossible to care about social issues AND the disadvantaged? Quite often, these two intersect. Sometimes, as we see with indigenous Australians, we actually need to fix the social issues in order to deal with their higher rates of poverty.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Sadly, the blue collar jobs coming back hasn't really occurred. Climate change affects the poor. Who do you think gets hurt the most with rising sea levels? The poor in many countries.

That's not true. Socialism is still alive in Australia. Furthermore, the indigenous treaties relate to a huge problem with indigenous welfare, and guess what, the indigenous are much more likely to be poor.

Can I see some of these stats that show many poor are dying from being unable to turn on heating?

Social issues aren't the be all and end all. I can't help but think you're also suggesting that the white poor are more important than non-white poor.

Basically, you're suggesting that an entire group of people the 'left' care about one thing. Is it now impossible to care about social issues AND the disadvantaged? Quite often, these two intersect. Sometimes, as we see with indigenous Australians, we actually need to fix the social issues in order to deal with their higher rates of poverty.

Who in Australia or the US is affected by rising sea levels ? secondly time to face reality the world had an ice age and is currently naturally heating up .

I am not suggesting the white poor are more important than the non white poor , what I am saying is the polices of the left do nothing to help anyone who is poor as high electricity costs hurt all the poor and a treaty doesn't give aboriginals a good paying job .

Do a quick search yourself on how many people die due to the cold especially the elderly .

Dealing with issues such as crime and substance abuse is important I agree but these feel good symbolic gestures such as a special treaty and same sex marriage do nothing for the poor .

 

[Coolangatta]

But that doesn't make them irrelevant, just secondary to economic and tax reform which is needed to reduce socioeconomic inequality. Don't know about you but I saw Shorten talking about tackling negative gearing, stopping the $65 billion dollar corporate tax cut which would put a bigger hole in the budget, family trust fund tax reform, closing the corporate tax loopholes and so on. Sounds on the money to me. If we're going to reduce the debt and also raise more money to stimulate the economy then it's gonna have to be done without raising income taxes or the GST or else people will struggle even more.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Who in Australia or the US is affected by rising sea levels ? secondly time to face reality the world had an ice age and is currently naturally heating up .

I am not suggesting the white poor are more important than the non white poor , what I am saying is the polices of the left do nothing to help anyone who is poor as high electricity costs hurt all the poor and a treaty doesn't give aboriginals a good paying job .

Do a quick search yourself on how many people die due to the cold especially the elderly .

Dealing with issues such as crime and substance abuse is important I agree but these feel good symbolic gestures such as a special treaty and same sex marriage do nothing for the poor .

A treaty in isolation does not give indigenous Australians high paying jobs, you're right. It's better to look at those types of things holistically. We evidently need to continually to improve their welfare - be it health, education etc. Those things ARE important in combating social inequality. Those are the things that we need to strive to rectify as a nation. Leaving behind certain groups of people is not in anyone's interests.

As Coolangatta above me has mentioned, the Labor party has spoken on many economic issues in order to help society. I think one of the other issues that the ALP should delve into is reforming workplace welfare. There are still so many jobs where people are working unpaid for additional hours, or having their award condition unmet.

I understand your concerns about higher electricity; I've never met anybody that would like to pay higher electricity rates. However, we need to simultaneously have an eye on the future. Living for today is great, but is it worth ruining the lives of future generations?

 

[RupieDupie]

Just last night I watched some clips of the presidential debates between Trump and Clinton , at the time nearly everyone said Clinton won but looking back watching these clips I was reminded why Trump won the election . Trump was constantly talking about bringing back blue collar jobs , he was on and on about jobs jobs jobs while Clinton was talking about a range of things such as climate change and multiculturalism . This just highlights how it is the now the right not the left who give the poor what they need .

In Australia we see this too , the left are currently obsessed with matters such as same sex marriage and indigenous treaties which do nothing for the poor . There are 2 key areas of policy were the left are putting ideology ahead of the poor being immigration and climate change .

Its time to face up to the simple reality that the high levels of immigration we have in this country thanks to the left is making most Australians workers poorer . The economic value of everything as I am sure you all know is based on supply vs demand . The high levels of immigration we have are simply resulting in greater supply of workers making most workers especially those in less skilled jobs less valued .

Climate change is simply a left wing Trojan horse designed to weaken western civilisation . The cost of energy is so high in this country that the poor cant afford to turn the heating on and many are dying in the winter . High costs of energy is also resulting in the lose of many blue collar jobs in this country .

So why is the left no longer focusing on helping the poor ? the truth is the left today are very focused on what we would call inner city progressive people who either vote green on a very close to voting green . I learnt at a local liberal branch meeting that in the US election in some states Clinton got 90% of inner city votes while trump got 80% of rural votes in the same state , a similar trend is happening in Australia.

These inner city progressives are people who personally benefit from progressive polices and are often after feel good policies . For example changing the date of Australia makes these people feel good about themselves , though of like how a Christian would feel good after going to confession.

The take home message is that the left no longer represent the poor , they represent inner city progressive people many of whom are very rich .

You are conflating many issues and then changing your opinion mid-argument.

What you are trying to say is; "the "left" are responsible for everything wrong in the world today, it doesn't matter what the issue is, nor that there is no evidence to support this assertion, but that somehow and someway, the root of the problem can be traced back to a "leftist" ideology"

This isn't a new argument, it is basically the whole premise to modern conservatism. Ironically conservatism used to stand for something, problem is no one remembers what this is anymore.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

A treaty in isolation does not give indigenous Australians high paying jobs, you're right. It's better to look at those types of things holistically. We evidently need to continually to improve their welfare - be it health, education etc. Those things ARE important in combating social inequality. Those are the things that we need to strive to rectify as a nation. Leaving behind certain groups of people is not in anyone's interests.

As Coolangatta above me has mentioned, the Labor party has spoken on many economic issues in order to help society. I think one of the other issues that the ALP should delve into is reforming workplace welfare. There are still so many jobs where people are working unpaid for additional hours, or having their award condition unmet.

I understand your concerns about higher electricity; I've never met anybody that would like to pay higher electricity rates. However, we need to simultaneously have an eye on the future. Living for today is great, but is it worth ruining the lives of future generations?

Aboriginals have the same access to healthcare and education the rest of the community do , the government provides equal opportunity to all Australians .

If someone is working unpaid or not having their award conditions met than that is illegal and hopeful justice is served but its not really a political issue .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

But that doesn't make them irrelevant, just secondary to economic and tax reform which is needed to reduce socioeconomic inequality. Don't know about you but I saw Shorten talking about tackling negative gearing, stopping the $65 billion dollar corporate tax cut which would put a bigger hole in the budget, family trust fund tax reform, closing the corporate tax loopholes and so on. Sounds on the money to me. If we're going to reduce the debt and also raise more money to stimulate the economy then it's gonna have to be done without raising income taxes or the GST or else people will struggle even more.

You know who the biggest winners in increasing taxes are ? the political class because it means more money ,jobs and power for them .

The biggest losers are the most vulnerable , do you really think the rich just simply absorb all the tax increase imposed on them or do you think they just pass most of not all of it on ?

By the way get rid of negative gearing and watch the cost of rent in this country go up and up .

 

[Coolangatta]

Aboriginals have the same access to healthcare and education the rest of the community do , the government provides equal opportunity to all Australians .

Not in remote communities they don't, but I know what you'll say, that they should just move, but we're talking about 65,000 + year ancestral connection to land so that's not likely.

You know who the biggest winners in increasing taxes are ? the political class because it means more money ,jobs and power for them .

The biggest losers are the most vulnerable , do you really think the rich just simply absorb all the tax increase imposed on them or do you think they just pass most of not all of it on ?

By the way get rid of negative gearing and watch the cost of rent in this country go up and up .

Not talking about a corporate tax increase, just fixing tax loopholes however they can be. According to the ATO about 1/3 of big businesses pay no tax. They should at least pay their fair share, not saying they should pay more.

Interesting. Can't say I know much about how that works so I'll leave it to others here to challenge your comment if it's disputable, but you could be right.

 

[Ripper]

Just last night I watched some clips of the presidential debates between Trump and Clinton , at the time nearly everyone said Clinton won but looking back watching these clips I was reminded why Trump won the election . Trump was constantly talking about bringing back blue collar jobs , he was on and on about jobs jobs jobs while Clinton was talking about a range of things such as climate change and multiculturalism . This just highlights how it is the now the right not the left who give the poor what they need .

In Australia we see this too , the left are currently obsessed with matters such as same sex marriage and indigenous treaties which do nothing for the poor . There are 2 key areas of policy were the left are putting ideology ahead of the poor being immigration and climate change .

Its time to face up to the simple reality that the high levels of immigration we have in this country thanks to the left is making most Australians workers poorer . The economic value of everything as I am sure you all know is based on supply vs demand . The high levels of immigration we have are simply resulting in greater supply of workers making most workers especially those in less skilled jobs less valued .

Climate change is simply a left wing Trojan horse designed to weaken western civilisation . The cost of energy is so high in this country that the poor cant afford to turn the heating on and many are dying in the winter . High costs of energy is also resulting in the lose of many blue collar jobs in this country .

So why is the left no longer focusing on helping the poor ? the truth is the left today are very focused on what we would call inner city progressive people who either vote green on a very close to voting green . I learnt at a local liberal branch meeting that in the US election in some states Clinton got 90% of inner city votes while trump got 80% of rural votes in the same state , a similar trend is happening in Australia.

These inner city progressives are people who personally benefit from progressive polices and are often after feel good policies . For example changing the date of Australia makes these people feel good about themselves , though of like how a Christian would feel good after going to confession.

The take home message is that the left no longer represent the poor , they represent inner city progressive people many of whom are very rich .

Good post, they have been shitting on their base for a long time , creating conditions to send out manufacturing jobs off shore for a while with the help of the big corporations (who are actually left wing) . If there is one thing Trump has done he has made them all drop their respective masks so we can now see which side they are on.

And the irony is that all this creates more "dangerous carbon pollution" that they claim to be so concerned about overall.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Aborigines are some of the poorest people in the country.. derp. Einstein strikes again

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Aborigines are some of the poorest people in the country.. derp. Einstein strikes again

and the left don't care about doing anything to help poor aboriginals , they just want to make symbolic gestures that make people who live in inner cities feel good .

Believe it or not but aboriginals need jobs and cheap energy .

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

and the left don't care about doing anything to help poor aboriginals , they just want to make symbolic gestures that make people who live in inner cities feel good .

Believe it or not but aboriginals need jobs and cheap energy .

This is just getting disingenuous.

You're making blanket statements by suggesting that nobody on the left cares about indigenous Australians.

I wish we'd get past this partisan shit and stop lumping all these groups together.

 

[Bradesmaen]

and the left don't care about doing anything to help poor aboriginals , they just want to make symbolic gestures that make people who live in inner cities feel good .

Believe it or not but aboriginals need jobs and cheap energy .

lol. Everyone needs jobs and cheap energy. Everyone also needs clean air and drinking water. Everyone also needs less crazy nutbags in their life. So, they need less you.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

lol. Everyone needs jobs and cheap energy. Everyone also needs clean air and drinking water. Everyone also needs less crazy nutbags in their life. So, they need less you.

What a load of rubbish people are living longer in this country than they ever have before , this climate change stuff is the biggest con job ever .

Just build some coal firepower stations and stop the lefts ideological attack on the poor.

 

[Bradesmaen]

What a load of rubbish people are living longer in this country than they ever have before , this climate change stuff is the biggest con job ever .

Just build some coal firepower stations and stop the lefts ideological attack on the poor.

People aren't living longer thanks to coal fired power plants, it's due to.. wait for it... free and good healthcare!! You're either a troll or one of the stupidest people to turn on a PC.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

This is just getting disingenuous.

You're making blanket statements by suggesting that nobody on the left cares about indigenous Australians.

I wish we'd get past this partisan shit and stop lumping all these groups together.

The left just don't seem to want to talk about the real issues in indigenous societies , for example the current government is introducing welfare cards partly to help tackle drug and alcohol problems and the left oppose it ,the left would rather pull down or change statues.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

People aren't living longer thanks to coal fired power plants, it's due to.. wait for it... free and good healthcare!! You're either a troll or one of the stupidest people to turn on a PC.

I am stupid ? what do you think the lefts ideological attack on cheap energy is doing to the cost of healthcare ???????

Climate change is left wing rubbish , remember when the dams in Victoria were never going to fill again ?

By the way healthcare is not free , even Medicare is paid for with taxes that even if aimed at the rich gets past down to the poor .

 

[Bradesmaen]

I am stupid ? what do you think the lefts ideological attack on cheap energy is doing to the cost of healthcare ???????

Climate change is left wing rubbish , remember when the dams in Victoria were never going to fill again ?

By the way healthcare is not free , even Medicare is paid for with taxes that even if aimed at the rich gets past down to the poor .

Using words like left and ideological don't exactly make you sound smart.

What do you think the Liberal party is doing with it's budget? It's not exactly like they are helping the poor by pushing up healthcare themselves.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Using words like left and ideological don't exactly make you sound smart.

What do you think the Liberal party is doing with it's budget? It's not exactly like they are helping the poor by pushing up healthcare themselves.

What have they done to healthcare ??? its basically the same as it was under labour

 

[Bradesmaen]

What have they done to healthcare ??? its basically the same as it was under labour

Labor*

Come on smart guy. If you want to pretend to smart, at least act like it!

Also, you really don't read anything but Andrew Bolt propaganda do you? I still can't work out whether this is a troll or not. Yikes if it isn't.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Labor*

Come on smart guy. If you want to pretend to smart, at least act like it!

Also, you really don't read anything but Andrew Bolt propaganda do you? I still can't work out whether this is a troll or not. Yikes if it isn't.

Thanks for pointing out a spelling mistake on a football forum , much appreciated .

So what have the liberals done to healthcare ?

 

[Coolangatta]

lololol yeah I suppose the earth is flat, too, spherical earth science is just left-wing rubbish!

 

[geelong_crazy26]

lololol yeah I suppose the earth is flat, too, spherical earth science is just left-wing rubbish!

You know almost every week they have a scientist on sky news that says climate change is not real . Problem is the left trough ABC and our Universities try and shut down scientists who do not believe in climate change .

Climate change is designed for 2 reasons .

1.To weaken western society
2.To create a need for a world governing body , the UN .

 

[Bradesmaen]

Thanks for pointing out a spelling mistake on a football forum , much appreciated .

So what have the liberals done to healthcare ?

Increased the levy and attempted to attach a co payment.