The Liberal Party - How long? - Part 2

[SBD Gonzalez]

But also if a senator leaves you shouldnt be able to just handpick someone from your party. How is that representative government?

Yes it sucks but what's the alternative? A "by-election" for a senate seat would involve the entire state coming out to vote on one seat.

 

[Forward Press]

Yeah above the line i mean. Should be abolished. Also not happy with the way Vic does perferences - should be abolished or disclosed somehow on the paper.

But also if a senator leaves you shouldnt be able to just handpick someone from your party. How is that representative government?

Victoria should have joined the rest of Australia and dumped group ticket voting.

The casual vacancy amendment to the Constitution was to prevent another 1975 happening. It's more undemocratic to have the entire state turn out for one Senate seat - which you know will go to either of the two major parties.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Yeah above the line i mean. Should be abolished. Also not happy with the way Vic does perferences - should be abolished or disclosed somehow on the paper.

But also if a senator leaves you shouldnt be able to just handpick someone from your party. How is that representative government?

Also, unless things are very different in Vic, preferences in the Federal system ONLY apply to how-to-vote cards. Voters are completely free to ignore the HTV cards and number their preferences as they choose.

And I also assume the way those preferences are counted in Vic is the same as federally - in the event there is not a majority in a given seat, the candidate with the lowest number of first votes is eliminated, and their votes all allocated to whoever voters placed second on their ballot sheets. If this still doesn't result in a clear winner, the next lowest candidate is eliminated, and so on.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Yes it sucks but what's the alternative? A "by-election" for a senate seat would involve the entire state coming out to vote on one seat.

Hey why not? Would be truly representative

Edit oh yeah saw the reason why not later.

 

[Not Important]

i mean costello is the chair of nine. failed treasurer, union basher, died-in-the-wool hard rightist and liberal propagandist. so no surprises he’s using his organ to roger progressives. no one or entity should b permitted 2 use the right 2 publish as a personal tool. we badly need a royal commission into the media.

 

[Not Important]

 

[RW]

They have become so bad, they are actually endangering democracy by failing to provide a viable alternative to Labor.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

They have become so bad, they are actually endangering democracy by failing to provide a viable alternative to Labor.

Nah, we have a long way to fall before we need the turd Coalition as a bulwark against anything.

I’m further left than today’s Labor party, but I’m delighted to see the steady, calm way Albo and co are going about fixing the turd Coalition’s mess and getting the country back on the tracks. So long as the economy doesn’t totally tank from external shocks I can see a considerable increased majority in 2025.

 

[QuietB]

i mean costello is the chair of nine. failed treasurer, union basher, died-in-the-wool hard rightist and liberal propagandist. so no surprises he’s using his organ to roger progressives. no one or entity should b permitted 2 use the right 2 publish as a personal tool. we badly need a royal commission into the media.

We just need to stop consuming their media, which mostly young people are doing.

When the boomers are gone so is the Herald Sun and The Age.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Their names are on the ballot sheet - a voter always has the choice to put them dead last if they want and put one of their party colleagues first. There have been successful below the line campaigns eg Tasmania 2016 with Lisa Singh successfully winning from 5th spot on the ticket, albeit really only possible with the double dissolution election and fewer voters in Tasmania.

Not sure what else you can do to improve the system other than working on reducing voter apathy, or straight out abolishing above the line voting.

Or, better still, the Senate

 

[QuietB]

Or, better still, the Senate

I dread to think what that campaigner Morrison might have done if we did not have a Senate he had to get past

 

[Forward Press]

Or, better still, the Senate

Unicameral systems are shit.

I'd apologise to Queenslanders for that offensive remark but I doubt they can read, much less understand what 'unicameral' means.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Taking the Pulse of the Nation - Tracker

Taking the Pulse of the Nation - Tracker

melbourneinstitute.unimelb.edu.au

These all look awful for the Libs but the 18-44 graph should be especially concerning. They could realistically fall to the third most popular party in primary vote overall in a generation.

 

[Millky95]

Taking the Pulse of the Nation - Tracker

Taking the Pulse of the Nation - Tracker

melbourneinstitute.unimelb.edu.au

View attachment 1555948

View attachment 1555949

View attachment 1555950

These all look awful for the Libs but the 18-44 graph should be especially concerning. They could realistically fall to the third most popular party in primary vote overall in a generation.

Only on "Education, no high school" is the Libs higher than Labor.

Even in the 65+ one

 

[Gough]

They would have been better off losing the 2019 election.

 

[Millky95]

They would have been better off losing the 2019 election.

So would have Australia

 

[Gough]

So would have Australia

An already unpopular Bill Shorten has to navigate covid? I suspect he could have been a one term wonder with the Libs backed by the usual suspects crushing him and returning to government even more emboldened. The three years of crap might have been worth it in the long run.

 

[Millky95]

An already unpopular Bill Shorten has to navigate covid? I suspect he could have been a one term wonder with the Libs backed by the usual suspects crushing him and returning to government even more emboldened. The three years of crap might have been worth it in the long run.

Perhaps.

Or he gets the same popularity buff Morrison got between the bushfires and the onset of COVID arriving in Australia but doesn't proceed to **** it all up.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

An already unpopular Bill Shorten has to navigate covid? I suspect he could have been a one term wonder with the Libs backed by the usual suspects crushing him and returning to government even more emboldened. The three years of crap might have been worth it in the long run.

I doubt that. Shorten wouldn't have stuffed the vaccine roll-out and he wouldn't have hidden rape allegations, wouldn't have pre-selected deves, wouldn't have had a female problem.

Morrison survived the bushfires with his antics and was on track in 2020 to win in a landslide. He was unbelievably incompetent, to put it into perspective.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I await the results for the last election.

Got polling for you by age now, couple of comments above.

 

[madmug]

Got polling for you by age now, couple of comments above.

Thanks, yes, very interesting up to 2019.

ALP did better with preferences in 2022. Teals also chewed out the LNP extremists.

 

[QuietB]

Not very long if this gains traction here

Ardern promises bill to lower voting age to 16 in New Zealand after discrimination ruling

Legislative move, which faces significant hurdles in parliament, follows judges’ ruling that the existing age of 18 breaches young people’s human rights

www.theguardian.com

 

[Schneebly11]

Not very long if this gains traction here

Ardern promises bill to lower voting age to 16 in New Zealand after discrimination ruling

Legislative move, which faces significant hurdles in parliament, follows judges’ ruling that the existing age of 18 breaches young people’s human rights

www.theguardian.com

Won’t happen, conservatives would never agree to it. It would destroy their chances of re-election. Average life expectancy is 83, so you have 65 years of voting age population. Extending that to 16 means an extra 3% voters, who would at a minimum, be 65% TPP to Labor with a high greens primary. As Australian elections are always decided by a 53% TPP or less than means the unless it’s a landslide Coalition win like in 2013 or 1996 they’d never get enough vote for a majority, and never have a clear majority parliament in their favour.

Even some right faction in the ALP wouldn’t agree as they’d see the extra vote going primarily to the Greens.

A few years back Pauline Hanson wanted the voting age raised to 21, for the same reason in reverse. That would never be agreed to by ALP as it would destroy their chances of holding power. It may seem like a minor number but because our electorate is almost evenly split the raising or lowering of voting age by just a few years will have a significant effect on results.

It’s populist politics, not going to happen.

 

[Millky95]

Not very long if this gains traction here

Ardern promises bill to lower voting age to 16 in New Zealand after discrimination ruling

Legislative move, which faces significant hurdles in parliament, follows judges’ ruling that the existing age of 18 breaches young people’s human rights

www.theguardian.com

I think in NZ they can do a lot more at 16 than we can (drive, drink, military service iirc) and have a bill of rights that says not to discriminate against age. Since we get everything at 18, I doubt the voting age would be lowered unless something else does first

 

[Not Important]

the americanisation of aus politics. wake-up peeps