Rules The low knee - it's time for a conversation

[PetterdHoisted]

He is not the only one by any means, but Collingwood's Moore has brought one of these 'sleeper' issues in the game into sharp focus in the last couple of weeks.

We all love the knee nestled on a shoulder, to elevate the speccie, but we don't love knees to the brain stem.
That's a complicated issue, given the status of the speccie in the game, and the huge rise of brain injuries in the AFL.
That's not what this thread is about.

We also don't love what i'll coin the 'low knee', to the ribs, or to the lower back.
Moore was not attempting to elevate at all when he injured Witts today, he was just using his knee to push Witts in the back, with the only part of the body you are still allowed to blatantly push the oppo in the back with.

Petracca, a top 10 player in marketing terms in the AFL (east coast), has been lost to what has already been a drab AFL season, from a similar action.

Should a ban on this action even be controversial? Cannoning into a player's lower back or ribs with your knee brings nothing to the game as a spectacle, is incredibly dangerous to player's health, and shows zero duty of care.

And yet, the AFL has remained completely silent on the issue...has there been a peep from print, TV, or radio AFL pundits?

 

[TheGoatBaron]

The King! what you’ve been saying

 

[Delisted]

It's a non issue.

 

[The King!]

The King! what you’ve been saying

Need to look at others and take some notice, but Moore goes Knee first a lot

 

[Gone Critical]

Cant agree with this. If you want straightlegged jumps into packs it would completely change the spectacle. Basically everyone jumping for a mark in a pack lifts a knee as they jump off the other leg. Cant outlaw that.,

 

[Saint12]

Cant agree with this. If you want straightlegged jumps into packs it would completely change the spectacle. Basically everyone jumping for a mark in a pack lifts a knee as they jump off the other leg. Cant outlaw that.,

Looks at club supports

 

[HairyO]

Cant agree with this. If you want straightlegged jumps into packs it would completely change the spectacle. Basically everyone jumping for a mark in a pack lifts a knee as they jump off the other leg. Cant outlaw that.,

Now tell us youre okay with it if it knocks Daicos out and he misses 2 or 3 games.

 

[Gone Critical]

Looks at club supports

You can say that if you want but I try to take that out of my thinking with these questions. Look at a few images of big marks like Kraks mark of the year. Do you let him fly because he getts elevation but say to the others no knee lifting. Knee lifting is part of flying in a pack. You jump of one foot and you have time and space to run and take a leap. Much more than say basketball. Tell me what you would do

 

[Gone Critical]

Now tell us youre okay with it if it knocks Daicos out and he misses 2 or 3 games.

If its in a pack with players flying at the ball with eyes on it then I would be sad that Daics is injured but I wouldn't say the player who ko'ed him accidently should get a penalty

 

[Saint12]

You can say that if you want but I try to take that out of my thinking with these questions. Look at a few images of big marks like Kraks mark of the year. Do you let him fly because he getts elevation but say to the others no knee lifting. Knee lifting is part of flying in a pack. You jump of one foot and you have time and space to run and take a leap. Much more than say basketball. Tell me what you would do


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great mark but his knees are on the shoulders...not low ball aiming for lower back, buttocks areas whilst spoiling. Moore imo has deliberately tried to hurt. Probably because he is in poor form and struggling for impact in the game

 

[Red Bull]

Moore making a habit of this filthy play

 

[HairyO]

If its in a pack with players flying at the ball with eyes on it then I would be sad that Daics is injured but I wouldn't say the player who ko'ed him accidently should get a penalty

Were you on Sam Mitchell's side or the media's side in their campaign to penalise him when he protected himself by raising his knee ?

 

[Gone Critical]

great mark but his knees are on the shoulders...not low ball aiming for lower back, buttocks areas whilst spoiling. Moore imo has deliberately tried to hurt. Probably because he is in poor form and struggling for impact in the game

I am looking at Cloke in particular who is jumping into the pack much lower but knee raised. What Imean is that action of jumping into a pack is very common and players get all sorts of different elevations. Part of the gmae to me. Moore I dont think tried to hurt anyone, was jumping at the ball.

 

[Gone Critical]

Were you on Sam Mitchell's side or the media's side in their campaign to penalise him when he protected himself by raising his knee ?

Was that the Fyfe one? Just looked it up. Probably a bit of a little knee jab by Sam, don't think it warrants any free or report. I could be biased because I loved Mitchell as a player. Very underrated

 

[HairyO]

Was that the Fyfe one? Just looked it up. Probably a bit of a little knee jab by Sam, don't think it warrants any free or report. I could be biased because I loved Mitchell as a player. Very underrated

The media led a campaign to have him penalised because across 13 years of football they found 3 times where he raised his knee to protect himself. And the AFL fined him.

 

[Gone Critical]

The media led a campaign to have him penalised because across 13 years of football they found 3 times where he raised his knee to protect himself. And the AFL fined him.

reckon Sam was always bit hard done by. Clearly Hawks best mid through that era. Reckon his best and Pendles best about equal. He had a bit harder edge did Sam so maybe thats where that comes from. By no means was he a sniper or questionable

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Bing 'deadliest parts of the human body'

You get:

• finger pokes (considered incidental)
• headbutts (never a football act since the beginning)
• elbows (shirtfronts etc. acceptable in the past, but outlawed now)
• knees ... somehow still pretty much completely allowed, if not encouraged, as long as you do it to a player when his back is turned??

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Player jumping at ball collides with player backing into space where player is jumping. Give me strength.

 

[Bianconeri]

Now tell us youre okay with it if it knocks Daicos out and he misses 2 or 3 games.

You can disagree with GC’s opinion but he’s pretty consistent in applying it.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

If its in a pack with players flying at the ball with eyes on it then I would be sad that Daics is injured but I wouldn't say the player who ko'ed him accidently should get a penalty

This is an almost ancient take, isn't?
Accident (intent) is very 2021
You are showing your age

Duty of care and outcomes rule in today's game.

Once again, a single Petracca is worth ~15 average AFL players to the AFL marketing department, and we just lost one to a low knee, to return likely in 2025.

 

[Gone Critical]

This is an almost ancient take, isn't?
Accident (intent) is very 2021
You are showing your age

Duty of care and outcomes rule in today's game.

Once again, a single Petracca is worth ~15 average AFL players to the AFL marketing department, and we just lost one to a low knee, to return likely in 2025.

You may be right about the age thing but this particular one would be very hard to apply without materially changing marking in a pack, which the game would be loathe to do. Like the bump do you say you can choose to do it but if you cause a corkie, bruised of broken rib or head injury you face suspension.

Would we have marks taken away because an injury was caused in a pack. Moore never took his eyes off the ball in either instance being discussed. He has flown for the ball bravely throughout his career, do you want that taken from our game. its a contact sport with inherent risk. We are a bit doomed if we react to ant adverse event.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

You may be right about the age thing but this particular one would be very hard to apply without materially changing marking in a pack, which the game would be loathe to do. Like the bump do you say you can choose to do it but if you cause a corkie, bruised of broken rib or head injury you face suspension.

Would we have marks taken away because an injury was caused in a pack. Moore never took his eyes off the ball in either instance being discussed. He has flown for the ball bravely throughout his career, do you want that taken from our game. its a contact sport with inherent risk. We are a bit doomed if we react to ant adverse event.

'flying in bravely' is something I think we need to examine.

I think 'standing under the ball' is the true brave act. Simply because you know a guy can be running as fast as they can and aiming a knee at your kidneys, with complete impunity rules-wise, and near-zero risk to them health-wise. (mind you ruckmen with PCLs may disagree here)

But on average, flying into the back/side of a stationary person is mostly not risky and does not involve special amounts of courage, and this is not Moore-specific at all, he has just happened to injure two players seriously, with knees to lower back and ribs at high velocity, in similar acts in consecutive weeks.

No offence to you, but probably better to discuss with non-Collingwood people in this case, I understand Pies fans would be invested in defending him.

 

[Gone Critical]

'flying in bravely' is something I think we need to examine.

I think 'standing under the ball' is the true brave act. Simply because you know a guy can be running as fast as they can and aiming a knee at your kidneys, with complete impunity rules-wise, and near-zero risk to them health-wise. (mind you ruckmen with PCLs may disagree here)

But on average, flying into the back/side of a stationary person is mostly not risky and does not involve special amounts of courage, and this is not Moore-specific at all, he has just happened to injure two players seriously, with knees to lower back and ribs at high velocity, in similar acts in consecutive weeks.

No offence to you, but probably better to discuss with non-Collingwood people in this case, I understand Pies fans would be invested in defending him.

"Flying bravely in the air" as a general description of players who are brave in the air. Jono Brown, Nick Reiwoldt as crazy brave example of this is what I mean in general terms to describe Moores game not these 2 incidents. I see that in Moores game and don't see him as a type to deliberately set out to hurt oppo players.

You may question whether I can be impartial and I am trying to be but maybe also keep your posting correct. Not consecutive weeks and there are no reports Witts is seriously injured. Do you have further info on that.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

"Flying bravely in the air" as a general description of players who are brave in the air. Jono Brown, Nick Reiwoldt as crazy brave example of this is what I mean in general terms to describe Moores game not these 2 incidents. I see that in Moores game and don't see him as a type to deliberately set out to hurt oppo players.

You may question whether I can be impartial and I am trying to be but maybe also keep your posting correct. Not consecutive weeks and there are no reports Witts is seriously injured. Do you have further info on that.

yes fair enough, I know it's annoying when poeple say I can't see clearly on richmond issues!

running back with the ball is brave. N. Riewoldt's was a once-in-a generation act, nothing connected with how Petracca and Witts got hurt.

Running at the ball with a knee into the opponents back/side is not, generally, brave. Everyone knows who is going to get hurt.

(once again, the exception being knee-on-knee, which is the preserve of the ruckmen and their PCL issues,
......and we have changed the rules multiple times to try to take that injury out of the game.....)

 

[ferball]

Now tell us youre okay with it if it knocks Daicos out and he misses 2 or 3 games.

Yeah ... like Daicos would back into a pack.