Society/Culture The misuse of terms in bad faith, why do we do this?

[Carringbush2010]

I'll start with the obvious, woke, the term has been twisted into a definition of irrational political correctness when that's universes away from the actual meaning.

My google search just now comes up with this, doesn't sound like a pejorative does it? Yet is used as a pejorative ad nauseum


If you're using this term as a pejorative, you're discrediting yourself.

'Gay'

This google search has the original definition, yet accepts the term as a definition of homosexual, the term has been twisted into meaning homosexual, when the original meaning is basically happy, when and why was this term hijacked to define homosexuals and worse used as a pejorative?



It's become so much so that it seems using it to define homosexuals or as a slur does not discredit your position, why not? The original meaning is universes away from 'homosexual'

'Patriarch'

This one really grinds my gears, used to define an ahole, when a 'Father' is originally defined as the carer and guider. Since when does this term immediately define a person who abuses power and oppresses? Why? Why are 'fathers' painted in such a bad light? Patriarch should be used to define a good person, not an abusive pos.



'Patriotism' or 'patriot'



Since when and who decided this is a bad thing? Immediately the naive offence seekers will use this term as a pejorative trying to imply 'anti globalist!'. or 'isolationist!' when all it is, is pride in ones nation of ones birth. Since when has this become taboo? Why?

So cheering on the Tillies in a soccer match against another country is a no no now, I say no it isn't, GAGF. I will not accept that patriotism is a bad thing

I really detest these misuses of terms as pejoratives, it's infantile and petulant. I'll let Barack sum it up for me

 

[Gethelred]

I'll start with the obvious, woke, the term has been twisted into a definition of irrational political correctness when that's universes away from the actual meaning.

My google search just now comes up with this, doesn't sound like a pejorative does it? Yet is used as a pejorative ad nauseum
View attachment 2138983

If you're using this term as a pejorative, you're discrediting yourself.

'Gay'

This google search has the original definition, yet accepts the term as a definition of homosexual, the term has been twisted into meaning homosexual, when the original meaning is basically happy, when and why was this term hijacked to define homosexuals and worse used as a pejorative?

View attachment 2138986

It's become so much so that it seems using it to define homosexuals or as a slur does not discredit your position, why not? The original meaning is universes away from 'homosexual'

'Patriarch'

This one really grinds my gears, used to define an ahole, when a 'Father' is originally defined as the carer and guider. Since when does this term immediately define a person who abuses power and oppresses? Why? Why are 'fathers' painted in such a bad light? Patriarch should be used to define a good person, not an abusive pos.

View attachment 2138993

'Patriotism' or 'patriot'

View attachment 2138994

Since when and who decided this is a bad thing? Immediately the naive offence seekers will use this term as a pejorative trying to imply 'anti globalist!'. or 'isolationist!' when all it is, is pride in ones nation of ones birth. Since when has this become taboo? Why?

So cheering on the Tillies in a soccer match against another country is a no no now, I say no it isn't, GAGF. I will not accept that patriotism is a bad thing

I really detest these misuses of terms as pejoratives, it's infantile and petulant. I'll let Barack sum it up for me

"Oh, why oh WHY can't words I understand to mean one thing mean only that thing to every person who has ever existed and will ever exist, without any nuance or other interpretation because I - and I alone - am right about those words and what they mean!"

Semiotics is the answer to why these words don't always adhere to your understanding of them, and why words have different meanings. Then, stack that on Foucault's discourse theory, and what you're going to get is a society whose definitions shift if and when power decides to try to shift them.

The internet has also changed things, but that remains a field of ever updating study.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Well, yeah. A gay fa*got in days of yore was a happy bundle of sticks. 'Twas in yore but aint no more.

 

[kickazz]

Can't say I have heard patriarch used in a pejorative sense.

Conflating patriotism with isolationism/globalism is a bit fraught they are quite different things. There'd be a correlation but they are different.

Patriotism can be used pejoratively, and rightly so, when it is based around entitlement and ignorance. I think it is still a good thing if you genuinely celebrate your nation's good values, music, food, culture. Not so much if you think you are exceptionally better than others due to the birth lottery.

Gay has changed, there's no going back. It would be good to have a word to replace the old use of gay, I'm not sure we quite have one.

Yeah woke had a specific meaning, basically "aware" and now has almost no meaning, used as a placeholder by idiots who cannot articulate their thoughts(prejudices) with proper reason.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Can't say I have heard patriarch used in a pejorative sense.

Really? If you watch msm, you'd be excused for believing patriarchy is the cause of domestic violence or at minimum in part the cause.

Patriotism can be used pejoratively, and rightly so, when it is based around entitlement and ignorance.

Again, msm paints patriotism as a platform for racism, in a subtle way, rarely is a patriot or patriotism celebrated as a good thing. Which it is.

I understand, with time, definitions change and terms are adopted to define completely different things, like 'gay' for instance.

That's fine, no issue, my issue is the misuse in bad faith.

 

[kickazz]

patriarchy

Semantics, but that is not the word you originally posted. Patriarch, to describe an individual man, who is perhaps head of a family or business, doesn't get used pejoratively.

Patriarchy, describing a society where power and authority resides mostly with men, is a different story. It is a word you probably can't use in the mainstream without it clearly invoking identity politics / gender wars.

 

[kickazz]

rarely is a patriot or patriotism celebrated as a good thing. Which it is

Why do you think patriotism is good? (I have my own thoughts on what is good about it, but keen to hear others.)

The problem with patriotism, like all forms of identity politics, is that it sometimes disrespects the individual. The way it is often communicated by its proponents is too cult like: you can love your country but still lament it's many flaws, but the hard core patriots won't have any of that. You with us or against us? It can also feel like you are forced to be patriotic, which in my opinion is probably only close to OK when your country is facing an existential crisis such as in war.

 

[raskolnikov]

Patriotism is ok to a degree. American-level patriotism on the other hand.

 

[Gethelred]

This is going to be the 'What's so bad about nationalism' thread all over again.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It is a word you probably can't use in the mainstream without it clearly invoking identity politics / gender wars.

That's the point, society immediately has to find a negative of patriarch / patriarchy.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Why do you think patriotism is good? (I have my own thoughts on what is good about it, but keen to hear others.)

The problem with patriotism, like all forms of identity politics, is that it sometimes disrespects the individual. The way it is often communicated by its proponents is too cult like: you can love your country but still lament it's many flaws, but the hard core patriots won't have any of that. You with us or against us? It can also feel like you are forced to be patriotic, which in my opinion is probably only close to OK when your country is facing an existential crisis such as in war.

Your hard nut extreme 'patriot' isn't what I'd describe as patriot, just a mouth breathing moron, certainly wouldn't think this type of person is of widespread sentiment.

The problem with patriotism, like all forms of identity politics, is that it sometimes disrespects the individual.

Agreed it enables discrimination against the individual, but that really is the intent of the person discriminating. And generally the negative is used to describes patriots / patriotism to use in bad faith.

Rarely is patriotism / patriot described in a positive light.

Why do I think patriotism is good? Because it's healthy to have pride your nation, yes it gives a sense of identity, but there's no need to purely view patriotism for its ills, how about we look at for its positives for once.

 

[Carringbush2010]

American-level patriotism on the other hand.

This is not what I would describe as patriotism, it's people a sandwich short of picnic sycophants.

Cheering when Sam Kerr puts one in the onion bag is completely different to sheep like psychos attempting to overthrow the white house all in the name of murica, if that's what you're inferring.

 

[Gethelred]

This is not what I would describe as patriotism, it's people a sandwich short of picnic sycophants.

Cheering when Sam Kerr puts one in the onion bag is completely different to sheep like psychos attempting to overthrow the white house all in the name of murica, if that's what you're inferring.

I suppose - if I'm to take this thread at complete face value - the question becomes: what's stopping someone who would absolutely prescribe to American style patriotism just up and declaring that 'cheering when Sam Kerr puts one in the onion bag' is insufficient to be labelled patriotism, that you're not doing enough?

What do you do then? Do you just tell them, they're wrong? What is your reply to that person?

 

[ferball]

I'll start with the obvious, woke, the term has been twisted into a definition of irrational political correctness when that's universes away from the actual meaning.

My google search just now comes up with this, doesn't sound like a pejorative does it? Yet is used as a pejorative ad nauseum
View attachment 2138983

Originally woke didn't just mean alert to racial prejudice, it meant alert to racial prejudice that would kill you if it got the chance.

I think that's an important distinction given its the very same sort of people who used to do the killing that turned it into the prejoritve use it has now.

 

[kickazz]

Gaslighting gets misused.

It's meant to mean a protracted, strategic behaviour intended to make someone think they are crazy.

Some people use it just to mean lying.

 

[Cap]

you have a good point on a few of these words, they are being used incorrectly or now have a completely new meaning, not sure everyone even agrees with each other on what they mean.

I see many of those words as but like what has happened to 'amazing'

Its being applied to things which had essentially demoted it to be interchangeable with good.

Not sure when the dictionary gets an update.

 

[barreness]

Awesome, wicked, cool, hot, wild, chill and gnarly have to be up there. These haven't been used as culture war fodder so it doesn't matter, which goes to your point I think. A political discussion disguised as a semantic one

 

[raskolnikov]

Gaslighting gets misused.

It's meant to mean a protracted, strategic behaviour intended to make someone think they are crazy.

Some people use it just to mean lying.

Not only crazy. It also describes a person who, when they misbehave, attempt to shift the blame.

I had a housemate who was extremely messy. Whenever I raised the issue this roommate would accuse me of being OCD and overly concerned with the state of the house. This to me was gaslighting.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Patriotism is ok to a degree. American-level patriotism on the other hand.

I dimly remember primary school assembly in the 1980s. Once a week (Monday Wednesday or Friday, can't remember if it was the beginning, middle or end of the week) we had to face the flag as the national anthem was played over the P.A system and then god save the queen was played by kids on recorders. Recorders! No words, just the tune.

Of course high school had none of that shite at all.

Here's how the U.S school day starts;

 

[Gough]

I dimly remember primary school assembly in the 1980s. Once a week (Monday Wednesday or Friday, can't remember if it was the beginning, middle or end of the week) we had to face the flag as the national anthem was played over the P.A system and then god save the queen was played by kids on recorders. Recorders! No words, just the tune.

Of course high school had none of that shite at all.

Here's how the U.S school day starts;

My primary school experience through the early 80s was Victoria had the pledge of allegiance and God Save the Queen, WA weirdly had the Lord's Prayer in a public school, and thankfully SA had none of that silliness which was probably explained to me at the time as being something to do with having no convicts.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

My primary school experience through the early 80s was Victoria had the pledge of allegiance and God Save the Queen, WA weirdly had the Lord's Prayer in a public school, and thankfully SA had none of that silliness which was probably explained to me at the time as being something to do with having no convicts.

The 'no convicts' angle is interesting. I'd never heard of that as an explanation before!

 

[Gough]

The 'no convicts' angle is interesting. I'd never heard of that as an explanation before!

I made the last bit up but can't rule out it happening. You couldn't go to school in the lead up to the sesquicentenary without having the whole free state thing beaten into your consciousness thrice weekly.

 

[Episode IV]

I'll start with the obvious, woke, the term has been twisted into a definition of irrational political correctness when that's universes away from the actual meaning.

My google search just now comes up with this, doesn't sound like a pejorative does it? Yet is used as a pejorative ad nauseum
View attachment 2138983

If you're using this term as a pejorative, you're discrediting yourself.

'Gay'

This google search has the original definition, yet accepts the term as a definition of homosexual, the term has been twisted into meaning homosexual, when the original meaning is basically happy, when and why was this term hijacked to define homosexuals and worse used as a pejorative?

View attachment 2138986

It's become so much so that it seems using it to define homosexuals or as a slur does not discredit your position, why not? The original meaning is universes away from 'homosexual'

'Patriarch'

This one really grinds my gears, used to define an ahole, when a 'Father' is originally defined as the carer and guider. Since when does this term immediately define a person who abuses power and oppresses? Why? Why are 'fathers' painted in such a bad light? Patriarch should be used to define a good person, not an abusive pos.

View attachment 2138993

'Patriotism' or 'patriot'

View attachment 2138994

Since when and who decided this is a bad thing? Immediately the naive offence seekers will use this term as a pejorative trying to imply 'anti globalist!'. or 'isolationist!' when all it is, is pride in ones nation of ones birth. Since when has this become taboo? Why?

So cheering on the Tillies in a soccer match against another country is a no no now, I say no it isn't, GAGF. I will not accept that patriotism is a bad thing

I really detest these misuses of terms as pejoratives, it's infantile and petulant. I'll let Barack sum it up for me

I'd say at least a part of the opposition to these types of words is in the way in which they are applied, and in the inherent understanding or misunderstanding of context and original definitions.

Using the (obvious) term "woke" as an example, the dictionary definition isn't enough.
If we consider the original understanding of the word as being something akin to the transition between the state of sleep and wakefulness (I deliberately didn't look that up), and the current definition which you've given, there is an assumption being made there which, at face value, would seem quite offensive. That being, if you're not "woke" (if you don't fully subscribe to the values and actions of those who are "woke") then you're not simply disagreeing with those values or actions (as a collective), you're just asleep. Unaware, unconscious.
Unthinking.

To my mind, therefore, the appropriation of the word woke itself, when applied to those using it to describe themselves as (for want of a more descriptive term) "good", is reprehensible and stifles actual debate in favour of adherence to an assumed position. They're the good guys; you're not.

Using "woke" as a pejorative might imply that you're more against the movement, and the implied insult within it, rather than than any individual issues collectively assumed to be a part of it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'd say at least a part of the opposition to these types of words is in the way in which they are applied, and in the inherent understanding or misunderstanding of context and original definitions.

Using the (obvious) term "woke" as an example, the dictionary definition isn't enough.
If we consider the original understanding of the word as being something akin to the transition between the state of sleep and wakefulness (I deliberately didn't look that up), and the current definition which you've given, there is an assumption being made there which, at face value, would seem quite offensive. That being, if you're not "woke" (if you don't fully subscribe to the values and actions of those who are "woke") then you're not simply disagreeing with those values or actions (as a collective), you're just asleep. Unaware, unconscious.
Unthinking.

To my mind, therefore, the appropriation of the word woke itself, when applied to those using it to describe themselves as (for want of a more descriptive term) "good", is reprehensible and stifles actual debate in favour of adherence to an assumed position. They're the good guys; you're not.

Using "woke" as a pejorative might imply that you're more against the movement, and the implied insult within it, rather than than any individual issues collectively assumed to be a part of it.

I'm all for fluidity of language, as the thread title questions.............. why does humankind use that fluidity in bad faith?

 

[Episode IV]

I'm all for fluidity of language, as the thread title questions.............. why does humankind use that fluidity in bad faith?

I was going to throw some dot points out there (without fully thinking them through) just then, but I think you could sum much of the question up as being the result of power relationships.

I'm not sure I have the desire top open Pandora's box on that one just yet.
I was also just about to ramble on about the Roman Empire (transition from Latin to Vulgar Latin, etc) but... no.

Consider the current trend for some to use then in place of than. I don't think it's the result of ignorance, per se, but rather a way in which some seek to assert power in some form by means of a deliberate rejection of Authority.
It's not like those who indulge in it don't know the difference. Whether it's the result of simple stubbornness, narcissism, or permissiveness (although those last two might be a factor in modern society) or what have you, I think it's actually quite deliberate, and more often than not actually counter productive in the long term.

I also think that some terms (often whole phrases) originate as a sort of secret handshake, before they're co-opted by some interests and evolve into something different again. Speaking of whole phrases, there's another aspect.

As per usual, there might not be only one "why", but a range of influences or varying weight that need to be separately hypothesized and understood - but power relationships are there at the heart.