The multibye rounds are back!!

[Devo_]

Just when you thought they were gone...

Patrick Keane from the AFL let off a few tweets this afternoon regarding the 2012 fixture:

"2012 Premiership Season will see 22 GAMES for each club across 23 wks. One week off for each team. Final round to be played Aug 31-Sept 2."

"Rounds 11-12-13 in mid-year will see 6 matches in each of those rounds, compared to normal 9 matches, with 6 clubs having a bye in each round"

If I were a half-glass full man, I'd say that we only have to think about byes for 3 weeks instead of 24, which is something to be thankful for, I guess. I'd also that say that this will make things very interesting and require coaches to think outside the box, which can only be good for the game. The extent to which it will prompt coaches to go for more unique players and strategies other than guns and rookies is hard to know at this stage.

If I were of the half-glass empty persuasion, I'd say that we won't truly know how nasty this will be until October 28 when the fixture is released, and we know which teams are lumped together in the same bye. However, it is safe to say that coaches who do not plan for this will get indigestion after being force-fed donut after donut, in at least one round.

I'm interested in the thoughts of others on what this will mean and how we could approach these bye rounds.

 

[Hank93]

What a disaster!!!

Can you imagine the carnage if Collingwood, Carlton, Hawthorn, GWS and Geelong have the byes in one round.

Would unlimited trades or maybe allowing coaches 3 trades per week for these 3 weeks be put in.

 

[GiantForce]

And we thought last year was bad having 3 teams out in one round. This will make it very challenging and will once again massivley seperate the good players from the bad players.

Last year the really bad multi byes with alot of good teams were in the first few weeks so we could plan our original squad around them. But this is smack bang in the middle of the season, this will be hell if you don't know how to structure/upgrade your team. This will be one of the biggest talking points in DT2012.

Actually looking forward to this. It will be a great challenge

Why can't we just have a bloody split round?

 

[tbetta]

Preliminary thoughts:
As much as it makes sense to go to an 18-team league system, like the AFL of course, the fixture doesn't really allow it. I think there will be 16 teams, starting in league matches in R2, league byes in R11-13 and finals in R20-23.

As for the league byes... I don't know what it'll mean yet. I briefly considered that they wouldn't be counted towards overall, but really, that's plain stupid.

So we can safely assume that we'll be forced to deal with them. Does that mean that we'll be granted more bench positions, like last year? It's a possibility, but we did have 14 teams playing in those Multi-Bye-Rounds in 2011, whereas we'll be even more decimated with only 12 teams playing in each of Rounds 11, 12 and 13. And even with 14 teams and 33 player squads, we were still force-fed a few donuts.

So what are the other options? Temporary Trades? Altered structure for the MBRs (ie 5-4-1-5 or something similar)? More trades allowed per week over those rounds? It's a headache, but I kind of like it. New ways to sort the boys from the men.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Ugh, just shoot me now, think I'll give Dream Team a miss next year

 

[GiantForce]

Preliminary thoughts:
As much as it makes sense to go to an 18-team league system, like the AFL of course, the fixture doesn't really allow it. I think there will be 16 teams, starting in league matches in R2, league byes in R11-13 and finals in R20-23.

As for the league byes... I don't know what it'll mean yet. I briefly considered that they wouldn't be counted towards overall, but really, that's plain stupid.

So we can safely assume that we'll be forced to deal with them. Does that mean that we'll be granted more bench positions, like last year? It's a possibility, but we did have 14 teams playing in those Multi-Bye-Rounds in 2011, whereas we'll be even more decimated with only 12 teams playing in each of Rounds 11, 12 and 13. And even with 14 teams and 33 player squads, we were still force-fed a few donuts.

So what are the other options? Temporary Trades? Altered structure for the MBRs (ie 5-4-1-5 or something similar)? More trades allowed per week over those rounds? It's a headache, but I kind of like it. New ways to sort the boys from the men.

Just give us 24 trades instead of 20 OR 3 man benches and deal with it IMO. DT is no fun without challenges

 

[TheGhostOfJohnBelushi]

Geez, what a kicker. Still, good incentive to hold off on early trades... will benefit a lot of people I reckon.

Obviously, the gooses will still burn trades early and be fubarred by the time they exit the bye carnage.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I think VS made an error last year

Either make it 24 trades OR allow extra bench positions.

Having both made assembling a squad too easy IMO - and sides too similar

I like the challenge of multi-byes personally - less trades but leave the extra bench position would be the best outcome.

The other thing is that it's not until round 11 - so you have plenty of time to trade into an appropriate side to handle the byes as opposed to simply gearing an initial squad to account for them.

 

[warnie]

The thing is, this is likely to be the way the fixture will go the next few years anyway... so I think we need to not be petty when looking at it.

We need 18 teams to match the real thing, therefore I think we should play through the bye rounds. By going to 16 teams, it takes away what is great and 'real' about DT. It uses the same salary cap, structure, etc... I think we should just 'suck it up' through those rounds and people can deal with them as they wish! I think it's great for strategy!

 

[Devo_]

The thing is, this is likely to be the way the fixture will go the next few years anyway... so I think we need to not be petty when looking at it.

We need 18 teams to match the real thing, therefore I think we should play through the bye rounds. By going to 16 teams, it takes away what is great and 'real' about DT. It uses the same salary cap, structure, etc... I think we should just 'suck it up' through those rounds and people can deal with them as they wish! I think it's great for strategy!

The complexity is what attracts me to the game, so I am happy to deal with the multi-byes. They were a major part of the challenge in 2011 and what made it so interesting. I'm sure I'll be cursing them when they come around in the middle of next year, but in a perverse way, I'm happy to see them again.

 

[warnie]

Sounds like Virtual Sports have been doing some thinking...

early play-thru scenarios.dual trade system inc 3 way DPP trades. squad of 33, 24 trades, max 3 per rd for11-13. or squad of 30, as above.

http://dreamteamtalk.com/2011/10/19/uh-oh-multi-bye-rounds-are-back-in-2012/

 

[stkildathunda]

Ugh, just shoot me now, think I'll give Dream Team a miss next year

I reckon it will be a permanent thing each year. So might be sitting out for while

 

[West123]

The weeks off for multi bye rounds this week actually made some teams more favourable, ie. as the teams which had multi bye rounds became better for leagues.

The simple thing for this is that you can't load up on teams that are all taking the bye in the one week. I'm not opposed to this as like last year, it forces people to spread thier selection across more teams.

Ultimately the best risk management will be to have a spread of 10 players (or 11 if we get 3 man bench) from each group of 6 that are batched together for byes.

 

[CaramlThickshake]

The weeks off for multi bye rounds this week actually made some teams more favourable, ie. as the teams which had multi bye rounds became better for leagues.

The simple thing for this is that you can't load up on teams that are all taking the bye in the one week. I'm not opposed to this as like last year, it forces people to spread thier selection across more teams.

Ultimately the best risk management will be to have a spread of 10 players (or 11 if we get 3 man bench) from each group of 6 that are batched together for byes.

it will create a very interesting balancing act. i can see lots of people trying something more elaborate to get an edge in the overall stakes in these rounds, but getting your starting team right will be absolutely crucial. too many trades will be burnt in these 3 rounds to afford the luxury of fixing initial mistakes.

 

[Atavistic]

As long as you plan ahead, the multi-bye rounds are definitely a good thing. They give you a clear opportunity to get an advantage over those who take the game less seriously.

 

[Keystone agony]

I dont see those multi bye rounds in the middle of the year playing much part or affecting initial squad selections. Those that didnt pick Pendlebury last year and thought they would happily bring him in after round 13 would know this.

 

[54Dogs]

I dont see those multi bye rounds in the middle of the year playing much part or affecting initial squad selections. Those that didnt pick Pendlebury last year and thought they would happily bring him in after round 13 would know this.

Well the key difference obviously is 6 teams have the bye where as this year the most was 3 teams, generally only 1 team.

Clearly the draw and VS decision on squad sizes / trades are the determining factors on whether the multi byes will impact initial squads. If 3 of Geelong / Collingwood / Carlton and Hawthorn all have the same bye it would be madness not to factor this in.

 

[dylan123]

This blows, having only 6 games a week for 3 straight weeks in a row sucks!

Although with 6 teams sharing a bye a round, there are little things we can already pick up on at this stage: Teams like Adelaide/Port Adelaide, West Coast/Fremantle, Brisbane/Gold Coast, Sydney/Greater Western Sydney will not share a bye together (at least I wouldn't think) as they would want to have it so each of these states have at least one match played their during the round. Unfortunately for us, there are a lot more premiums coming from the Victorian sides at this stage (with them been the stronger teams of the top 8) and it's hard to tell who will share byes at this stage.

At the end of the day though, it's going to effect everyone the same way and by the time it comes, everyone (that is going for as high a rank as possible) will have come to a similar conclusion so I don't believe much of an advantage can be had from this anyways.

From a personal pov, I hope we can pick a side of 33 again as it means I can pick up a few more bench priced guys that could be potential keepers/big cash cows as it's very hard to narrow the options down with 2 bench per position.

Still hoping that they decide to make the magic number a little higher then the past few years so everyone doesn't stack their sides with premiums (and with 20/24 trades resulting in everyone having almost identical teams) and brings the midpricers further back into contention although I honestly cannot see this happening.

 

[54Dogs]

It's a solid challenge but that's good for the hard core guys going for the overall. Just like this year it'll again be tough to "fluke" a high result without good planning.

 

[54Dogs]

Purely through boredom, by way of example if the byes were:


Rd 11

Swans
Crows
WC
Hawks
North
Saints


Rd 12

GWS
Bris
Pies
Cats
Ess
Dogs

Rd 13

Port
Freo
GC
Blues
Melb
Rich




There would be plenty of dancing to do to navigate through without donuts, especially if benches are only 2. Add injuries and players dropped by mid year and it becomes interesting

 

[dylan123]

I really can't see them moving our sides back down to 30 players with the amount of teams that will be sharing a bye together. I think one of the worst bye rounds this year was the round 6 one which had Fremantle, Geelong and Hawthorn. There were plenty of guys from these three sides worth considering at the time: Mzungu (ended up getting injured before the season started which was a bit of luck for us in the end), Pavlich, Fyfe, Mundy, Broughton, Duffield, Lower, Sandilands, SJ, Bartel, Chapman, Selwood, Enright, Shiels (quite unique so probably not a big factor), Mitchell, Franklin and Puopolo.

In position:

Defenders:
Broughton, Duffield, Lower, Enright and Puopolo

Midfield:
Mzungu, Pavlich, Fyfe, Mundy, Bartel, Chapman, Selwood, Sheils and Mitchell

Rucks:
Sandilands

Forwards:
Mzungu, Pavlich, Fyfe, SJ, Chapman and Franklin


Plenty of premiums and cash cows came from these three teams alone and it meant many of us had to avoid a few premiums in which we would have otherwise got. Now just imagine the carnage of having to deal with something like this + another 3 teams and then injuries on top of that! I don't think it will be a very fun 3 weeks.

 

[Keystone agony]

What about this thought. Lets say rookies are about 80-100k or so. If you have the money in the bank you can buy an extra player by those rounds.

Eg: you have 120k in the bank and are looking at a donut in the midfield, so with that 120k you can actually by another player into the midfield. It could be a DPP helping you with the rounds after ect.

Would be an interesting way to add a twist into the game, do you save money for another player for those rounds or do you spend it early. By having the extra players you are just about certain to save a zero in each of those weeks which could be 300 points.

 

[PykeDream]

What about this thought. Lets say rookies are about 80-100k or so. If you have the money in the bank you can buy an extra player by those rounds.

Eg: you have 120k in the bank and are looking at a donut in the midfield, so with that 120k you can actually by another player into the midfield. It could be a DPP helping you with the rounds after ect.

Would be an interesting way to add a twist into the game, do you save money for another player for those rounds or do you spend it early. By having the extra players you are just about certain to save a zero in each of those weeks which could be 300 points.

That's a good idea. So maybe we could have a 'ghost' fourth bench spot that is available for Rounds 11,12,13. Perhaps two or three weeks before Round 11, this position opens up, can be filled by a player (eg. a 2nd gamer on the bubble), and they remain in this position 'locked down' until Round 11. This player can then be rotated through their position in Rounds 11, 12 and 13. For example, I could select Sam Shaw in Round 10 in my backline, Tom Mitchell in Round 8 in my midfield, Jarrad Redden in my rucks in Round 11 and Ahmed Saad in my forward line in Round 9. Upon the completion of Round 13, a player has to be cut from each line that has one of these 'ghost' players in it.

 

[dylan123]

Would be interesting to see how it would work but it would be too confusing for your average joe DTer to understand.

VS will look for the simplest fix possible which means something like they did this year with 3 extra bench positions and 4 extra trades.

 

[Keystone agony]

Rd 12

GWS
Bris
Pies
Cats
Ess
Dogs

That would be hell. All those young GWS kids, all the guns from pies,cats and i think guys like Redden, Rockliff are pretty hard to pass up in the midfield along with Leunenberger who every would have if you had to pick a team now. I think Essendon have many interesting players and theres always room for a dog each year.

^^ I like the name of the "ghost bench spot" maybe it could be called the "sub" to evolve with the actual game.

7 (2 back benchs) - 1 SUB/ghost spot
6 (2 mid bench) - 1 SUB/ghost spot
2 rucks (2 bench) - 1 Sub/ghost
7 forward (2 bench) - 1 sub/ghost

I would like it so people can pick that sub any time throughout the year. Ie: some might see it beneficial to have bench spot for a position from the start whilst some might think spending the extra 100k on the field is better. Somke might be copping a zero in round 3 unless they bring in a SUB, some might do it and other might upgrade. Would make it interesting. Bring the "SUB" into the game. The average Joe dream team players are decreasing rapidly, make them understand it.