Toast The New Carlton Thread: Lukey Sayers adds his utensil to the wooden spoons

[NMBB]

Have we heard from Snapper yet?

Last seen

 

[60 Yards Out]

Have we heard from Snapper yet?

Seems to have taken the weekend off. Doesn’t he realise people are relying on him?

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

McClure reporting there's factions within the playing group now. If that's true, that's basically spelling doom.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

McClure reporting there's factions within the playing group now. If that's true, that's basically spelling doom.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Vossy has my full support.

 

[swoop42]

Vossy has my full support.

Mine to.

Can't have them falling head over arse and luckily landing on someone who can coach.

#voss4ver

 

[Vicky Park]

McClure reporting there's factions within the playing group now. If that's true, that's basically spelling doom.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Now there are factions within the playing group. Some players not wanting to play for the coach. Some players not wanting to play alongside each other. Dummy spits. Toys thrown out of cots. Sulking.

 

[sideswipe]

Now there are factions within the playing group. Some players not wanting to play for the coach. Some players not wanting to play alongside each other. Dummy spits. Toys thrown out of cots. Sulking.

It’s more newsworthy that there are still players who want to be there.


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[Cousin of Daicos]

"no discernible game plan"

I mean, anyone with even a passing interest in the nuance of the game could see from even last year they had no system/game plan.

Having no System works just fine if your list is stacked with talent that's in form. Which most of it was last year (yet they still missed finals).

The problem is, their list isn't stacked. It kinda drops off a cliff after the best 8-10 players and if most of the 8-10 aren't playing well, they're screwed.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Vossy has my full support.

Somebody backgrounding Sam McClure with “It’s a fallacy that Michael Voss is guaranteed to coach next year” …

… the root cause of problems at Carlton are very obviously not with their senior coach.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Somebody backgrounding Sam McClure with “It’s a fallacy that Michael Voss is guaranteed to coach next year” …

… the root cause of problems at Carlton are very obviously not with their senior coach.

Broad statement to which I broadly agree… the root cause is probably Jack Elliott to be fair… they have bouncing from one debacle to the next every year since.

But on the basics…. Game plan, fitness, teamwork, execution….. that’s square on the coaching staff. Recruiters have done their bit and despite some gaps in the list there’s plenty enough to work with.

 

[riddick78]

McClure reporting there's factions within the playing group now. If that's true, that's basically spelling doom.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Who the hell would want to coach there now?? They might have no other choice but to persist with Crazy Vossy.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Vossy has my full support.

Je suis Voss.

 

[jimmy35]

Yes just more sweet sweet majestic misery for them. Warms the heart.

 

[Mark W]

"no discernible game plan"

I mean, anyone with even a passing interest in the nuance of the game could see from even last year they had no system/game plan.

Having no System works just fine if your list is stacked with talent that's in form. Which most of it was last year (yet they still missed finals).

The problem is, their list isn't stacked. It kinda drops off a cliff after the best 8-10 players and if most of the 8-10 aren't playing well, they're screwed.

8-10 is generous. I think it falls away dramatically after 6

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

8-10 is generous. I think it falls away dramatically after 6

Off the top of my head:

• Curnow
• McKay
• Cripps
• Walsh
• Weitering
• Saad
• Williams
• Docherty
• Young
• Martin

That's 11 and I'd consider them at the very least pretty decent players. I know it's easy to say almost all of them suck when they're not doing well, but people thought the same about the majority of our list in 2021 (not me).

Even if you shave 2 or 3 off my list, still in the "8-10" range.

We're ultimately arguing over 1 or 2 players here or there anyway.

I"m guessing we both ultimately agree the list is quite "top heavy" in terms of quality.

 

[sr36]

Giants have North next week. So if Carlton lose to Essendon, they'll be down to 15th!

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Lol. Snapper on sen. "He's over Carlton"...only talking about soccer now

 

[sideswipe]

Giants have North next week. So if Carlton lose to Essendon, they'll be down to 15th!

And we will be up to pick 22.

Then they face Gold Coast coming off a bye.

 

[Chameleon75]

And we will be up to pick 22.

Then they face Gold Coast coming off a bye.

the suns will torch them on current form

 

[sideswipe]

the suns will torch them on current form

Based on McClure's reporting, half of the Blues players will be barracking for the Suns.

 

[Couch Coach]

Off the top of my head:

• Curnow
• McKay
• Cripps
• Walsh
• Weitering
• Saad
• Williams
• Docherty
• Young
• Martin

That's 11 and I'd consider them at the very least pretty decent players. I know it's easy to say almost all of them suck when they're not doing well, but people thought the same about the majority of our list in 2021 (not me).

Even if you shave 2 or 3 off my list, still in the "8-10" range.

We're ultimately arguing over 1 or 2 players here or there anyway.

I"m guessing we both ultimately agree the list is quite "top heavy" in terms of quality.

Can't get on the park:
Martin = Average of 9.75 games per year over the last 4 years
Williams = Average of 8.50 games per year over the last 4 years

Young is no good

But the real kicker is what they are paying these guys (all rumoured amounts):
Martin $650K pa
Williams (5 year, $6M) = $833K pa
McGovern (5 years, $4M) = $800K pa

Total cap = $13,540,000
44 players on list
Therefore average of $307K pa per player
$2,283,000 on 3 players that can't get on the park or have been poor.
16% of their cap

 

[CasuallyDressed]

My enjoyment of Carlton's misery has seen me actively rooting for Essendon in a game of football and I feel dirty for it.

But I hope Essendon massacre them this week.

 

[sr36]

And we will be up to pick 22.

Then they face Gold Coast coming off a bye.

We should have done a future first swap. They would have been cocky enough to accept it and would have been gloating for the first 4 weeks of the season.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Broad statement to which I broadly agree… the root cause is probably Jack Elliott to be fair… they have bouncing from one debacle to the next every year since.

But on the basics…. Game plan, fitness, teamwork, execution….. that’s square on the coaching staff. Recruiters have done their bit and despite some gaps in the list there’s plenty enough to work with.

Voss is not the first (or second or even third) Carlton coach in recent times who has had knocks on his gameplan, or dealing with division in the locker-room, or knocks on him about being able to get the best out of his list. Mick was telling the brains trust at Carlton 10 years ago that they way overestimated the talent on their list.

If the tables had been turned and we’d ended up with Voss, and Fly had gone to Carlton (I’m not a religious person but I cross myself as I write that) nobody on this forum would be under any illusions that Voss would have us a game and percentage clear top of the table at this point …

… but we’d all be damn certain that even with Fly at the helm Carlton would be just as shithouse.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Voss is not the first (or second or even third) Carlton coach in recent times who has had knocks on his gameplan, or dealing with division in the locker-room, or knocks on him about being able to get the best out of his list. Mick was telling the brains trust at Carlton 10 years ago that they way overestimated the talent on their list.

If the tables had been turned and we’d ended up with Voss, and Fly had gone to Carlton (I’m not a religious person but I cross myself as I write that) nobody on this forum would be under any illusions that Voss would have us a game and percentage clear top of the table at this point …

… but we’d all be damn certain that even with Fly at the helm Carlton would be just as shithouse.

Can't agree here

In fact I've said a couple of times already that if Fly had gone to Carlton, decent chance they'd be looking at going back to back this season

If we got Voss...well, I don't even want to think about how bad we'd be