Autopsy The not even The Bont, Libbas and Jones' heroics can drag us over the line against the cats thread

[Mr. Walker]

A 4 point loss to the Cats isn't really grounds to call for huge reform IMO. They'll be a reasonably good side this year

I get where you are coming from and taken on just last night it is a fair enough view, but for me we have to factor in
1. English’s exposed form over a long period of lack of physical contact and average performance against ruckmen he should be expected to dominate.
2. Williams and Dales poor performance over many games including last season
3. The teams continued inability over a few seasons to hit targets even as close as 10 metres away.
4. KPFs ongoing issues with performance and accuracy against good defences
5. A defence that opposition’s transition through seemingly to easy for multiple seasons

There is also a pessimism that comes with being a Bulldogs supporter that says a poor performance is the usual and not a once off.

 

[BulldogsTV]

Tim is an absolute enigma. His mobility, marking and around the ground work is first class. His ruck craft especially centre bounce work is C Grade.

The problem with English is and always has been his lack of muscle and power.

Rhys Stanley was the most influential player on the ground. Even if he doesn't win the hit out, he's affecting English's(and Darcy's) hitouts, and physically imposing himself at the stoppages. Nankervis for Richmond set the benchmark for how influential a strong, physical ruckman can be in the modern game, but Beveridge has never liked playing them himself.

English is an excellent tall roaming utility. He could probably make it as a midfield or a wingman, or as a second ruck who roams around the ground. Put him against a meat tank in the stoppages most of the game and there will be problems. Same happened in the Grand Final 2021, same happened in the elimination final against GWS in 2019, it's a persistent problem when you lack muscle.

Anyone else ask themselves why 2021 went so well when 2020, 2022 and 2023 were so mediocre? Might have something to do with having a fit, strong Stefan Martin taking the #1 ruck handle for the first half of the season.

 

[BulldogsTV]

A 4 point loss to the Cats isn't really grounds to call for huge reform IMO. They'll be a reasonably good side this year

It is never about just one game.
It's not a 4 point loss that's the problem. It's losing 18 of the past 21 games to them, and the same old problems being noticeable.
It's having four mediocre years out of the past five, in a time where some of the club's best players ever are playing at their peak.

And it is not a given that Geelong are a top 4 side this year, or even a finals side. The teams they have beaten are bottom to mid-table at best. There is nothing to suggest they are right up there with Carlton, Port, Melbourne, GWS and maybe Collingwood/Brisbane. Not to mention they were coming off a 5 day break and had limited running power in the last 10 minutes of the game.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Really impressed with Darcy. Was so close to clunking a few more marks within scoring range as well. This kid once he is at his peak fitness / strength will be scary good.


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[Claudonious]

What do other teams do differently to play Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

? Probably have someone within 20 metres of him when he runs forward would be a start. Seems to have his largest possession games against us.

Miers's field kicking was incredible to witness live. We can only dream of having that going inside 50.

Cameron plays a totally different role against us - pushes right up the ground and uses his running power to push back.

It seems the fire still burns from the 16 prelim….he saves his best for the dogs.


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[fred cook]

It is never about just one game.
It's not a 4 point loss that's the problem. It's losing 18 of the past 21 games to them, and the same old problems being noticeable.
It's having four mediocre years out of the past five, in a time where some of the club's best players ever are playing at their peak.

And it is not a given that Geelong are a top 4 side this year, or even a finals side. The teams they have beaten are bottom to mid-table at best. There is nothing to suggest they are right up there with Carlton, Port, Melbourne, GWS and maybe Collingwood/Brisbane. Not to mention they were coming off a 5 day break and had limited running power in the last 10 minutes of the game.

and then fast forward to round 23 2024 Bevo press conference. We lost many close games that could have went either way.

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[Optimistic Dog]

I feel we are a better team that last season. However, the reliance on Bont, Libba, Jones and ADZ is not healthy. if we cannot get it done last night with the dominance of these guy you feel we are just battling for 8th place. We must win 3 of the 4 Bombers, Saints, Freo and Hawks to be well placed to play finals.

 

[Dazb86]

I feel we are a better team that last season. However, the reliance on Bont, Libba, Jones and ADZ is not healthy. if we cannot get it done last night with the dominance of these guy you feel we are just battling for 8th place. We must win 3 of the 4 Bombers, Saints, Freo and Hawks to be well placed to play finals.

I feel like that's the reality. Outaide of 2021 we have been battling for 8th since Beveridge took over.

 

[Next Waiting]

I get it with Jones. God knows where we be with out him holding the shaky edifice of our defence together. However the lack of defensive pressure that we get from the likes Johannisen and Dale something that used to be offset by their ability to turn defence into attack in the blink of an eye. Cannot be ignored anymore.

Its bad enough that he's missing this season, but this is where (if reports are true) Smiths impending departure is going to cruel us for years.

The problem is that no amount of attitude or application is going to counter the flip side of this argument. The one where they come up against equally physical teams that have a burst of speed inside and outside of the contest like Geelong and Melbourne. Let alone sides like GWS who are all silk and speed. It's no coincidence that those two sides in particular have been our nemesis for years now. I think this would be alleviated somewhat if English was a more physical ruck, or if our midfield batted deeper, but the reviews on English are in and he just isn't and as it stands we just dont.

And here we are stuck in the middle.

I don't believe that Smith was/is the answer. The answer plays for Port but unfortunately that ship has sailed.

I'm a little disappointed that we let that ruck go last year (can't remember his name). We could really have dragged a few down to our level with his size and strength and willingness to hurt people.

I agree that Melbourne has us covered. They uncannily have a list that is uniquely shaped to fully exploit our every weakness and Geelong and GWS not too far behind.

There has to be an answer or the hope of an answer somewhere though otherwise we are treading water till the next draft/trade period.

I believe the answer lies within the madness of Bevo. It's left of left field.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

I’ll say it.

Honourable loss.

I was there, we are still learning a new system, and compared to last year we’ve improved tremendously. Do not ever underestimate Geelong, they will finish in the top this year.

Yeah, we should of won, but the effort is what I liked to see, we fought to the very end and just couldn’t get it done, it hurt at the time (I could of punched out some drunk Geelong fans in front of me) but overall looking at the big picture I’m pretty happy with what the team did.

Plenty to improve on, and plenty of established players who need to lift, but it’s still early in the season, I’m not throwing the baby out with the bath water just yet.

 

[Ted's Robot]

We have such a poor record in close games. When I watch other teams with momentum coming from behind I just know that most of the time they will get there and win. With us, I know we will get close but fall short, time will run out, we will miss an opportunity to get in front, we will cop a bad decision. Eg the game against Port when we had the goal disallowed due to shepparding on the goal line.
I've watched the dogs for a very long time and I have never seen us kick a goal after the siren to win a game. Most of the time we will even miss the goals after the siren at the breaks.
Thank God for 2016, one of the few times we got the bounce of the ball.
I know good teams win close games so until we start to do that. We will be a mediocre team with a few superstars who need more support.

 

[BulldogsTV]

I’ll say it.

Honourable loss.

I was there, we are still learning a new system, and compared to last year we’ve improved tremendously. Do not ever underestimate Geelong, they will finish in the top this year.

Yeah, we should of won, but the effort is what I liked to see, we fought to the very end and just couldn’t get it done, it hurt at the time (I could of punched out some drunk Geelong fans in front of me) but overall looking at the big picture I’m pretty happy with what the team did.

Plenty to improve on, and plenty of established players who need to lift, but it’s still early in the season, I’m not throwing the baby out with the bath water just yet.

Nah.
Carlton, GWS, Port, Melbourne will comfortably finish above them. Collingwood, Brisbane and possibly Sydney and Fremantle should finish above them too.

We are not a good benchmark. We are mid-table at best, and Chris Scott has the blueprint for beating Beveridge coached teams.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Nah.
Carlton, GWS, Port, Melbourne and possibly Collingwood, Brisbane, Sydney, Fremantle should finish above them.

We are not a good benchmark. We are mid-table at best, and Chris Scott has the blueprint for beating Beveridge coached teams.

Agree to disagree.
Yes, Scott has Bevos measure, that’s for sure. But I can easily see Geelong finishing top 4. Last year was a down year for them but let’s not forget they won a flag 2 years ago.

They have a very solid list, two of the best KPFs, the leagues best defender, and a very good young midfield surrounded by some old heads.

Not to mention the best coach in the league and a shithole home ground advantage.

 

[BulldogsTV]

I'm a little disappointed that we let that ruck go last year (can't remember his name). We could really have dragged a few down to our level with his size and strength and willingness to hurt people.

There was no point in keeping Sweet because Beveridge doesn't like playing that type of ruckman. He'd just play reserves all year again, like Lachlan Smith will this year.

Beveridge likes playing "mobile" ruckmen, even if it means playing a midfielder there at times. Part of the blueprint to beating the Beveridge Bulldogs is to play a really strong, physically imposing ruckman to grind down the less strong guys we field (English, Darcy).

 

[BulldogsTV]

Agree to disagree.
Yes, Scott has Bevos measure, that’s for sure. But I can easily see Geelong finishing top 4. Last year was a down year for them but let’s not forget they won a flag 2 years ago.

They have a very solid list, two of the best KPFs, the leagues best defender, and a very good young midfield surrounded by some old heads.

Not to mention the best coach in the league and a shithole home ground advantage.

One of whom turns 36 years old this year.
Last year they got burned out towards the end of the season. Most of their key players are still old, and a year older than last year.
This game they were missing Dangerfield, Guthrie, and coming off a 5 day break. They had no legs in the final 10 minutes. Meanwhile we were near full-strength.
Getting within 4 points of them in the end is no achievement. This should've been the time we bury them, but we still have the same old problems, same old demons, same old coach playing favourites at the selection table (he had the gall to say Vandermeer played well in the post-match press conference).

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Let's be honest, if we had won that last clearance and got the goal to win the game most of these posts would be positive.

I wouldn't say I'm happy with the result but I can see the improvement from last year. Finally looking like we can win some intercept marks which is critical in the way the game is played right now. An extra behind the ball instead of at the stoppage would go a long way to making us competitive with the top teams.

 

[Some Idiot]

Sad that this one got away from us, but I actually liked the way we went about it. Jones, Libba, Bont, Treloar were awesome. Sam Darcy bobbing up nicely to hit the scoreboard while Sanders and Gallagher continue to impress.

 

[BulldogsTV]

Let's be honest, if we had won that last clearance and got the goal to win the game most of these posts would be positive.

I wouldn't say I'm happy with the result but I can see the improvement from last year. Finally looking like we can win some intercept marks which is critical in the way the game is played right now. An extra behind the ball instead of at the stoppage would go a long way to making us competitive with the top teams.

This is what annoys me.
Are we supposed to be happy just with incremental improvement?
Bontempelli turns 29 this year. Libba 32. Are you expecting them to just keep producing A-Grade football while we make our incremental improvements every year, yet never taking a big step?
We should've been perennial contenders starting at 2020. Now we are celebrating just not being total garbage like we were in 2023? Celebrating getting within 4 points of an aging side that missed finals last year and has beaten us 18 of the last 21 encounters?(who were coming off a 5 day break and missing their best midfielder & captain).
Not buying it.

 

[Proffessor]

The use of language is fluid and follows all sorts of trends.

One modem term that drives me nuts, is “unacceptable”. What the hell does it mean? If you absolutely won’t accept something then it indicates you will stop at nothing before you can move on and allow the unacceptable fact to stand. Which is obviously complete rubbish, hardly anything is truly unacceptable. You may not like certain facts but you have to accept them eventually!

Any suggestion that those not having a tantrum, are happy with the result is also complete rubbish.

We just want to assess what happened, learn from it and keep moving forward. Which is all anyone can ever do, really.

It wasn’t a horrible performance.

It’s a long season.

You can’t win premierships in April. Although I might suggest you could potentially lose them if you overreact to a close loss.

 

[Golden_6]

Agree to disagree.
Yes, Scott has Bevos measure, that’s for sure. But I can easily see Geelong finishing top 4. Last year was a down year for them but let’s not forget they won a flag 2 years ago.

They have a very solid list, two of the best KPFs, the leagues best defender, and a very good young midfield surrounded by some old heads.

Not to mention the best coach in the league and a shithole home ground advantage.

They’ve done well to refresh the middle of their ground with kids. Bruhn is an impressive kid and will be a good midfielder for a long time. Holmes will be a gun and I think he’ll end up being AA quality. Miers is by far the best forward half kick in the comp, he was simply incredible last night.

Every year they just seem to unearth 2-3 extremely good kids that just replace the 2-3 retirees they always have.

 

[Next Waiting]

Where is Anthony Scott?

 

[BulldogsTV]

Every year they just seem to unearth 2-3 extremely good kids that just replace the 2-3 retirees they always have.

Who is replacing Hawkins and Cameron?

 

[Claudonious]

There was no point in keeping Sweet because Beveridge doesn't like playing that type of ruckman. He'd just play reserves all year again, like Lachlan Smith will this year.

Beveridge likes playing "mobile" ruckmen, even if it means playing a midfielder there at times. Part of the blueprint to beating the Beveridge Bulldogs is to play a really strong, physically imposing ruckman to grind down the less strong guys we field (English, Darcy).

Sweet will play in the seconds all year for port.

I have (and never will) see a teams starting ruckman replaced with a magical strong physical type when they play the dogs.

English was good.Not the reason we lost.

Beveridge just likes playing the best ruckman on our list.


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[Golden_6]

Who is replacing Hawkins and Cameron?

Shannon Neale will be well developed to take over from Hawkins after spending a few years in the VFL.

Cameron will have a few years left. Remember they have always had a strong ability to attract opposition talent to fill gaps.

 

[Oliver G]

We have targeted Naughton just 10 times in 4 matches, the same as West. Clearly, the directive is to get it to Jamarra who we have targeted 34 times but he has kicked just 6 goals for the season.

It's pretty simple either we need to stark-kicking it to Naughton or he doesn't belong in the F50.