The Nuclear debate

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

The coalition statement may say nuclear power, but its real purpose is to frighten off investment from the coalitions paymasters competition.

Coalition wants a ‘closed shop’ for power and perversely will use taxpayer dollars to achieve it.

Not only has the coalition resisted a coherent power and environment policy while its been in power, its white anting labor’s ambition to have one.

Put. Them. Last

The Coalition’s master plan: Bring large scale wind, solar and battery storage installations to a halt

The Coalition nuclear plan would largely bring investment in large scale renewables and storage to a halt, and result in household solar being switched off on a near daily basis.

reneweconomy.com.au

AEMO have two scenarios that are essentially equally likely. Reneweconomy don't like the progressive scenario as it it one with lower electrification - fewer EVs.

But the independent AEMO has two scenarios that Frontier has used in its modelling.

 

[kalex6251]

Amy Remeikis (@amyremeikis.bsky.social)

Want to make the blue ticks in the other place completely rabid? Just criticise nuclear. There is absolutely some ops going on

bsky.app

 

[nut]

So as solar and batteries costs continue to fall, how will Nuclear, that can’t be turned down, avoid negative prices?
So your taxes will have to pay to make Nuclear sustainable.
The only way Nuclear can work is if you can regulate the market and stop CHEAPER renewables adding cheap power into the grid. What will that do to the price???? It’ll go up.
If the government stops people from exporting their rooftop solar to stop it from competing with nuclear and batteries are cheap, how many people will exit the grid and go off grid? Will the party of the supposedly “free market” stop people going off grid??? Force people to buy from the grid….
4 Million homes have solar and With EVs as back up batteries on wheels, how will the grid cope with a mass exodus?

nuclear doesn’t and won’t work with a large % of renewables…

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So as solar and batteries costs continue to fall, how will Nuclear, that can’t be turned down, avoid negative prices?
So your taxes will have to pay to make Nuclear sustainable.
The only way Nuclear can work is if you can regulate the market and stop CHEAPER renewables adding cheap power into the grid. What will that do to the price???? It’ll go up.
If the government stops people from exporting their rooftop solar to stop it from competing with nuclear and batteries are cheap, how many people will exit the grid and go off grid? Will the party of the supposedly “free market” stop people going off grid??? Force people to buy from the grid….
4 Million homes have solar and With EVs as back up batteries on wheels, how will the grid cope with a mass exodus?

nuclear doesn’t and won’t work with a large % of renewables…

Nuclear can be turned up and down to a large extent. Why do you think it can't?
Its used in things like submarines ffs.
Control rods. Duh.

 

[peetoo]

Nuclear can be turned up and down to a large extent. Why do you think it can't?
Its used in things like submarines ffs.
Control rods. Duh.

How’s the investment though when it’s been turned down?

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

If the government stops people from exporting their rooftop solar to stop it from competing with nuclear and batteries are cheap, how many people will exit the grid and go off grid? Will the party of the supposedly “free market” stop people going off grid??? Force people to buy from the grid….
4 Million homes have solar and With EVs as back up batteries on wheels, how will the grid cope with a mass exodus?

nuclear doesn’t and won’t work with a large % of renewables…

The vast majority of those 4 million households are soon going to get zero or close to zero for their FIT and I doubt any of them will disconnnect from the grid. People will soon be exporting unused electricity for free.

 

[nut]

The vast majority of those 4 million households are soon going to get zero or close to zero for their FIT and I doubt any of them will disconnnect from the grid. People will soon be exporting unused electricity for free.

This is why there is a 1/4 of a million people that have a battery.
And if people are exporting power for free m, how does nuclear compete with that?

Edit- Also a 1/4 million people have a large battery on wheels.. that figure will hit 1 million in 2 years.
That’s a million cars that can use cheap renewables and power their homes with Vehicle to load and V2G.

 

[nut]

Nuclear can be turned up and down to a large extent. Why do you think it can't?
Its used in things like submarines ffs.
Control rods. Duh.

I’ve heard that changing a nuclear plant's output can create thermal stresses and potential safety issues.
This would be happening Dailey.. it would be much safer controlling renewables in this situations.. curtailing solar and stopping wind and allowing the nuclear to remain steady…
So the plan has to involve reducing renewables… so prices will have to go up,

 

[nut]

The vast majority of those 4 million households are soon going to get zero or close to zero for their FIT and I doubt any of them will disconnnect from the grid. People will soon be exporting unused electricity for free.

Also this sounds like a vote winner… 4 million houses getting screwed.

 

[nut]

The vast majority of those 4 million households are soon going to get zero or close to zero for their FIT and I doubt any of them will disconnnect from the grid. People will soon be exporting unused electricity for free.

Also there are peer to peer electricity options in some states like local Volts. Someone will want cheap rooftop solar.

Understanding the Peer-to-Peer Electricity Market: A Revolutionary Approach to Energy Distribution - Localvolts

The idea behind peer-to-peer electricity trading is to enable individuals and businesses to buy and sell electricity between each other directly, bypassing traditional centralised utilities.

localvolts.com

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Also this sounds like a vote winner… 4 million houses getting screwed.

This is going to happen regardless of who is in power. Victoria's ESC has reduced the FIT under an ALP government.

 

[nut]

This is going to happen regardless of who is in power. Victoria's ESC has reduced the FIT under an ALP government.

Yes but that’s because we don’t have enough storage at the moment … as more battery capacity enters the grid and more EVs, this capacity will need to be filled, thus increasing the demand for rooftop solar.

 

[pazza]

Earlier this year I was in the Northern Territory, where 2 uranium mining sites are heavily contaminated - Rum Jungle and Ranger. The former has been closed since the 1960s. Ranger closed a couple of years ago and Rio Tinto haven't got a clue how to clean it up.

That's the first issue. How on earth can anyone expect to have energy that's risky even in the extraction stage?

The second issue is the location of the mines and the reactors. Have a look at the recent earthquake data and their location. Looks a little familiar. Again, the word safety comes up. A lot.

And we haven't even gotten to the waste section yet.

 

[nut]

Earlier this year I was in the Northern Territory, where 2 uranium mining sites are heavily contaminated - Rum Jungle and Ranger. The former has been closed since the 1960s. Ranger closed a couple of years ago and Rio Tinto haven't got a clue how to clean it up.

That's the first issue. How on earth can anyone expect to have energy that's risky even in the extraction stage?

The second issue is the location of the mines and the reactors. Have a look at the recent earthquake data and their location. Looks a little familiar. Again, the word safety comes up. A lot.

And we haven't even gotten to the waste section yet.

And the growing costs of decommissioning

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Earlier this year I was in the Northern Territory, where 2 uranium mining sites are heavily contaminated - Rum Jungle and Ranger. The former has been closed since the 1960s. Ranger closed a couple of years ago and Rio Tinto haven't got a clue how to clean it up.

That's the first issue. How on earth can anyone expect to have energy that's risky even in the extraction stage?

The second issue is the location of the mines and the reactors. Have a look at the recent earthquake data and their location. Looks a little familiar. Again, the word safety comes up. A lot.

And we haven't even gotten to the waste section yet.

Uranium is already being mined and will continue to be mined regardless of whether we go with renewables or with nuclear. No new mines are being commissioned.

And if we are concerned about mines in general, gold, lithium, zinc, copper, iron ore, tin, tungsten mining all produce tailing are toxic, so why do we turn a blind eye to these?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Storage is expensive.

Imagine how much storage could be bought for $331B?

Would comfortably pay for a decent battery for every Australian household!

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Imagine how much storage could be bought for $331B?

Would comfortably pay for a decent battery for every Australian household!

Couldn't you argue the same about the ALP's strategy too, especially if it costs more?

 

[Not Important]

‘Not a hope in hell’ nuclear power can replace Australian coal-fired power by 2040, inquiry hears

Energy industry group calls for policy push on faster renewables rollout as ACTU energy adviser says Coalition’s proposal won’t create ‘a single job’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Couldn't you argue the same about the ALP's strategy too, especially if it costs more?

The ALP are not planning to use $331B of taxpayer funding to fund an expensive energy source though.

To put this in perspective, it's $32K for every Australian household! Can we afford it?

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

The ALP are not planning to use $331B of taxpayer funding to fund an expensive energy source though.

To put this in perspective, it's $32K for every Australian household! Can we afford it?

You'd need to know how much the ALP investment is. So far, all of the federal rebates for solar are essentially taxpayer funded. I don't know the exact figure, but I am guessing even the ALP proposal is hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars.

And then you have to decide if you prefer a nationalised energy compared to a privately owned.

 

[Rob R]

Imagine how much storage could be bought for $331B?

Would comfortably pay for a decent battery for every Australian household!

Would easily cover setting up our own industry to build panels, batteries etc so we can wean ourselves off unreliable partners in this time of growing uncertainty and create ongoing jobs here.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Would easily cover setting up our own industry to build panels, batteries etc so we can wean ourselves off unreliable partners in this time of growing uncertainty and create ongoing jobs here.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Could create an export industry too.

More importantly this could be done now to address our current demand issues, rather than kicking the can down the road a couple of decades with Nuclear.

Wouldn't need $331B taxpayer funding either.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Could create an export industry too.

More importantly this could be done now to address our current demand issues, rather than kicking the can down the road a couple of decades with Nuclear.

Wouldn't need $331B taxpayer funding either.

That ship sailed years ago. China dominates the sector now. No amount of thoughts and prayers is going to make an Australian solar sector competitive on the world stage.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

That ship sailed years ago. China dominates the sector now. No amount of thoughts and prayers is going to make an Australian solar sector competitive on the world stage.

There is opportunity for expanding the battery industry though...

 

[Rob R]

That ship sailed years ago. China dominates the sector now. No amount of thoughts and prayers is going to make an Australian solar sector competitive on the world stage.

Costs in China are growing and reducing their economic advantage while worldwide demand booms. Nations are also realising that Chinese economic/trade policy cannot be trusted under the Xi dictatorship.

Power should be a national industry that is protected from all foreign influence or threat.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app