Solved The Peter Falconio Disappearance

[Krusty Crab]

just had a couple of ideas - BM dna was found on the steering wheel, and gear shift of the kombi. was it ever reported what form this DNA took? (sweat, blood, hair etc?) interesting if they found blood, this could tie in with Lees shirt. if it was something else, then wouldn't you expect to find some of BM blood in the kombi if he drove it, as he was obviously bleeding from somewhere when manhandling lees just previous?

also BM allegedly just moved the kombi from the roadside to about 20m or so into the scrub, and he left DNA on the gear shift and steering wheel. Lees was allegedly manacled and pushed out of the kombi, resulting in grazes on parts of her body drawing blood. she was then pushed into BM car while manacled, pushed through between the front seats and into the tray, where she managed to slide out and escape. was any of Lees DNA found in BM car?

 

[Kurve]

was any of Lees DNA found in BM car?

No.

 

[Kurve]

just moved the kombi from the roadside to about 20m or so into the scrub, and he left DNA on the gear shift and steering wheel.

Sorry Krusty, I just double checked. Not on the steering wheel of the Kombi only the gearstick.

 

[Krusty Crab]

No.

thanks kurve.

i wonder if it was looked for and not found, or no one bothered to check. seems a bit strange to not find any DNA which would confirm at least part of lees story

 

[Krusty Crab]

Sorry Krusty, I just double checked. Not on the steering wheel of the Kombi only the gearstick.

no finger prints partial or otherwise on the gear stick? nothing on the door handle? nothing on the drivers door grab handle/arm rest? think i might have to look up details of what his defence lawyers discussed at trial, this is sounding very light on for evidence to convict a murder suspect.

 

[Kurve]

thanks kurve.

i wonder if it was looked for and not found, or no one bothered to check. seems a bit strange to not find any DNA which would confirm at least part of lees story

I've never agreed the way to getting to the bottom of the real story here is by attacking Lees, it doesn't seem right and goes against the grain. The more I look though, it starts to get real uncomfortable.

Initially I had a sense they all had the wrong bloke, trust in the science has me parrotting off that this conviction is good but a little voice is nagging at me still, he did not with premeditation and in cold blood murder Falconio, not for the motives put forward. There's more to the story.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I've never agreed the way to getting to the bottom of the real story here is by attacking Lees, it doesn't seem right and goes against the grain. The more I look though, it starts to get real uncomfortable.

Initially I had a sense they all had the wrong bloke, trust in the science has me parrotting off that this conviction is good but a little voice is nagging at me still, he did not with premeditation and in cold blood murder Falconio, not for the motives put forward. There's more to the story.

Agreed, IMO Lees' story was made up on the fly to A/ explain Pete's disappearance without spilling the beans and B/ self preservation.
Police know what took place, they would have been well aware of the who's, when's and how's but the only forensic evidence linked BM and they needed a conviction, case closed.
Personally I believe they were watching on as it unfolded.

 

[megadeth92]

Agreed, IMO Lees' story was made up on the fly to A/ explain Pete's disappearance without spilling the beans and B/ self preservation.
Police know what took place, they would have been well aware of the who's, when's and how's but the only forensic evidence linked BM and they needed a conviction, case closed.
Personally I believe they were watching on as it unfolded.

The NT court wanted a guilty verdict to reassure other young Brit potential tourists that it is safe for them to come here.

Huddersfield Town was relegated from the Premier League - that's justice of a kind.

 

[zedx]

I've never agreed the way to getting to the bottom of the real story here is by attacking Lees, it doesn't seem right and goes against the grain. The more I look though, it starts to get real uncomfortable.

Initially I had a sense they all had the wrong bloke, trust in the science has me parrotting off that this conviction is good but a little voice is nagging at me still, he did not with premeditation and in cold blood murder Falconio, not for the motives put forward. There's more to the story.

I've always believed JL. We all react to situations differently (Lindy Chamberlain) and as she was being 'accosted' by BM, she may not have seen everything that was going on or may have been in her own world of terror and may not have been able to 'see' beyond what was happening to her. But in saying that, somethings are definitely not adding up and I can't work out whose 'fault' that is. One thing I keep going back to though, is did the cops ask the 'right' questions? As it really seems they have left a lot of holes in the investigation!

 

[megadeth92]

If Brad was intellectual or a corporate-type or better still Prince Andrew he would have been a much less popular target for them.They needed someone who looked like a typical bad type / long-distance traveller.

 

[GreyCrow]

just had a couple of ideas - BM dna was found on the steering wheel, and gear shift of the kombi. was it ever reported what form this DNA took? (sweat, blood, hair etc?) interesting if they found blood, this could tie in with Lees shirt.

That BM DNA was found in the kombi is enough to put BM there. What happened after is on BM to say or not say and live with those choices

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Has everyone seen the picture of the blood stain on the road, from the TV show.
To me it looks like a pint of blood, the same volume as in a blood collection bag.
It looked to me like an odd pattern.

The bloodstain on the road does look very strange. Having watched a leading expert conducting extensive re-enactments and experiments in relation to the Making of a Murderer/Steven Avery case I think it's very safe to say this stain is not from a gunshot wound, not nearly enough blood. Fascinating to watch the latest episodes of that show, Avery's new female lawyer is an absolute legend, fearless, a razor sharp intelligence and relentless!

I've also found a photo of a chapstick Joanne used to free herself? (Can't get photo to copy here sorry) Never heard of that before, but I'm not as up with this case as so many others on here. The chapstick photo is in this article.

Unsolved questions in Falconio murder from lack of blood to 'jelly man' mystery

HYSTERICAL, bedraggled and bleeding from cuts all over her arm, Joanne Lees flagged down a truck on a lonely stretch of highway in the Australian outback and sobbing with relief, began to tell the …

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

the rape charges were mentioned in the TV show. there was talk about whether these charges were trumped up as an excuse to get Murdoch's DNA. at the trial for these charges he was found innocent, and he made a run for the door. as he tried to leave he was arrested by NT cops, and it was brought up it was illegal to arrest someone inside a court house.

if i recall the complainants in the rape case were linked to the drug dealer that shopped murdoch for a reduced sentence. whether it was a put up job to draw murdoch out and obtain his DNA we will never know. im not 100% that murdoch was involved in the lees/falconio case, theres to many unanswered questions and alternative theories for me to say i believe he is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

my current working theory is that lees/falconio were part of some drug deal, (either smuggling, transporting, or selling to other travellers) they werent pulled over by another car on the hwy, but rather they were waiting for the other car, either to hand off the drugs or cash or get payment for themselves etc (red car or murdoch?). something happens and there is a disagreement, PF gets hurt, resulting in blood on the road way (im wondering if he could of been stabbed instead of shot).lees gets tied up and terrorised for a bit while the other party threatens her to get back their cash/drugs. she could of been held in the kombi once it was moved off the road. PF body vanishes at some point either in the red car, or murdoch car or some other way. Lees could of been tied up in the kombi, and managed to escape somehow, eventually turning up in front of the truck driver.

if the story of the red car is to be believed, maybe they got caught cleaning up the scene? lets say lees/falconio were meant to meet up with murdoch for the hand off. they wait with the kombi on the side of the road. murdoch rolls up, ready to collect the cash and pass on some more drugs. lees/falconio dont want to hand over the cash, or they dont have all the money. murdoch stabs falconio at the back of the kombi, grabs lees, ties her up and chucks her in the back of the kombi. murdoch moves PF body out of sight, and rings whoever is his local contact to deliver the cash/drugs too. they set out in the red car to sort the situation out. lees is held captive in the kombi which is now moved off the road, red car shows up just before the truck, discussion held and possibly a decision made to kill lees, or something similar to ensure she stays silent. truck driver sees lights moving as murdoch moves his ute, and PF body gets loaded in red car. during this lees escapes, and with a potential witness in the truck driver about to show up, murdoch and the red car do a u turn and leg it, forgetting about lees. she then pops out in time to see the truck. cue the look of terror after seeing her bf stabbed by angry drug dealers, and possibly hearing their discussion about what to do with her. her story minimises her part in the process, and puts the blame onto murdoch.

questions i would like to know the answers to:

what was mobile phone/sat phone coverage in the area like at the time of the lees/falconio case?
If murdoch was out on a drug run, where was his intended delivery point, and who was the buyer?
how was murdoch supposed to contact his intended delivery person when he arrived?
what tests were run on the blood on the road? some sources claim it wasn't even DNA tested?
lees statement said she and PF smoked a joint earlier in the day. where was the weed sourced from?
what was the financial back ground of lees/PF prior, especially during their time in australia? any sudden extra cash?
if the kombi was known to be dodgy, and they had already travelled some pasts of the outback, (they knew how vast, empty and desolate some parts can be), then why set off so late so they end up driving at sundown and night time?
why was lees trying to tee up another date with her bit on the side, merely days after her bf went missing? not expecting her to be inconsolable, but surely she would want to hang about for a bit to see PF family, and check progress and help out as much as possible in the search?

could the blood have been from someone sitting against the kombi/laying on the ground with a stab wound instead of a gun shot wound?

Great post!

I had similar thoughts before reading this.

Both JL & PF used drugs & been rumoured to be drug couriers to fund their holiday.

We know it doesn't usually end well when you cross a drug dealer...

Explains why JL not keen to come clean with the complete story, but parts of it are true.

Imo, BM is guilty & got what he deserved but it's not the full story.

 

[Krusty Crab]

The bloodstain on the road does look very strange. Having watched a leading expert conducting extensive re-enactments and experiments in relation to the Making of a Murderer/Steven Avery case I think it's very safe to say this stain is not from a gunshot wound, not nearly enough blood. Fascinating to watch the latest episodes of that show, Avery's new female lawyer is an absolute legend, fearless, a razor sharp intelligence and relentless!

I've also found a photo of a chapstick Joanne used to free herself? (Can't get photo to copy here sorry) Never heard of that before, but I'm not as up with this case as so many others on here. The chapstick photo is in this article.

Unsolved questions in Falconio murder from lack of blood to 'jelly man' mystery

HYSTERICAL, bedraggled and bleeding from cuts all over her arm, Joanne Lees flagged down a truck on a lonely stretch of highway in the Australian outback and sobbing with relief, began to tell the …

www.thesun.co.uk

in the article attached to your post GND, in the photo of the toolbox am i seeing things? in the toolbox on the left is that the home made manacles that were used on Lees?

 

[sprockets]

in the article attached to your post GND, in the photo of the toolbox am i seeing things? in the toolbox on the left is that the home made manacles that were used on Lees?

 

[Girlnextdoor]

View attachment 919411
Certainly looks like another pair of "manacles" in the tool box doesn't it. So makes you wonder if BM had taken other women or had plans to?

 

[zedx]

With all his constant travelling in such secluded areas who knows what he may have done!!

 

[Krusty Crab]

if this was a second pair of similar manacles in BM toolbox then surely we would of heard about it? would want to hope they weren't the original pair which was placed there for comparison to the zip ties found in his toolbox. would make for an interesting contamination claim if so.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

if this was a second pair of similar manacles in BM toolbox then surely we would of heard about it? would want to hope they weren't the original pair which was placed there for comparison to the zip ties found in his toolbox. would make for an interesting contamination claim if so.

Couldn't be any worse than booking the original lot out of the evidence facility they were being held at in Darwin, flown to Adelaide, brought into an interview room in Yatala prison and presented to BM.

 

[megadeth92]

If they can do it, they should just declare it a mistrial and quietly release him.

 

[Kurve]

Someone found this on Trove by The Chaser.

 

[megadeth92]

In my view the story or stories told by Joanne Lees are completely unbelievable on a number of fronts. I hold reasonable doubt Brad Murdoch is guilty and Peter may still be alive, depressed no doubt that Huddersfield Town no longer plays in the Premier League. My apologies for posting this before reading all the old posts, which I am starting to do now.

 

[ms finch]

I have some thoughts on this based on what I have read over the years.

While I think JL may have been hiding something, I do not think it means BM has been wrongfully convicted. I think he murdered PF.

If PF was murdered by someone else, why was BM’s DNA the only third party found? Much has been made over the years in various places of there not being enough of BM’s DNA given the circumstances described; well, there isn’t ANY of a possible other person.

If it was a plot between BM and JL, why would BM not have said this at some point? I struggle to believe, if they had some arrangement and then he got busted, that he wouldn’t have turned the tables on her. Further, why would she come up with such an elaborate plot, which involves her being the victim of a terrible experience and involving third parties such as the truck driver, and execute it on the highway where someone could have driven past? And why would she trust BM to do all of this?

The possibility that PF was murdered by JL is, in my view, bizarre. All of JL’s apparent strangeness can be explained by trauma and/or guilt about cheating on PF and/or hiding something that is immaterial to whether BM is the perpetrator or not but about which she is ashamed. While I am not suggesting JL was r*ped, something like that is not an uncommon thing to hide. I actually think it’s possible that JL and PF were running drugs and this was the reason for the confrontation with BM, but that doesn’t change BM being the killer. Point being, it doesn’t follow that if she is hiding something it’s an involvement in a conspiracy or that she killed PF.

And once again, why this elaborate and dangerous plot? Whether she killed him then or killed him earlier, it’s still an issue. What did she do with the body? Moreover, she somehow planted BM’s DNA on her shirt and in the car? And she’d done all the research and planning to pin it on a guy who was a lowlife, in the area at the right time, and had no alibi (farfetched enough as it is), but then didn’t provide a 100% perfect description of everything about him to police? Or somehow she just got lucky with BM’s DNA ending up in the right places and him being the right sort of person in the right place?

The police framed BM? How - when at the time the DNA was collected and analysed they didn’t have his DNA? And then they waited until someone came forward naming him as a suspect before going after him? So - what - if that person hadn’t come forward they wouldn’t have gone after him even though they intended to frame him? Or they conspired with the person who gave the tip to fit their framing narrative, but waited all that time to do it?

PF staging his own disappearance is also not really tenable in my view. If JL was in on it then once again why the elaborate plot that also relied entirely on her not revealing the truth? She would be going to an extraordinary amount of trouble for him when she has been hounded and questioned for years.

If JL wasn’t in on it, that means PF arranged someone to stage his murder, terrorise JL and help him get away. What in his history suggests he would do that to JL? There are also much simpler ways of disappearing if you’re prepared to go to those lengths, rather than stage a brutal murder on an outback highway in the middle of the night. And we come back to other points above. If BM was the associate helping him, why has he not said anything? He would also surely not have been dumb enough to participate in such a scheme and not hold on to proof that PF was alive as an insurance policy. And if it was someone else, why is it BM’s DNA and none of theirs that was found?

The lack of blood I think has been misinterpreted. I have read opinions that people do not bleed externally as much as we think from bloodshot wounds - the bleeding is often internal. We also don’t know exactly where PF was shot or if this was a fatal wound or something that merely incapacitated him. JL did not witness the event itself, but merely heard the shot.

BM’s conviction may be unsafe - may not have truly met the threshold for criminal conviction - but that is different to him not being the perpetrator.

 

[zedx]

I have some thoughts on this based on what I have read over the years.

While I think JL may have been hiding something, I do not think it means BM has been wrongfully convicted. I think he murdered PF.

If PF was murdered by someone else, why was BM’s DNA the only third party found? Much has been made over the years in various places of there not being enough of BM’s DNA given the circumstances described; well, there isn’t ANY of a possible other person.

If it was a plot between BM and JL, why would BM not have said this at some point? I struggle to believe, if they had some arrangement and then he got busted, that he wouldn’t have turned the tables on her. Further, why would she come up with such an elaborate plot, which involves her being the victim of a terrible experience and involving third parties such as the truck driver, and execute it on the highway where someone could have driven past? And why would she trust BM to do all of this?

The possibility that PF was murdered by JL is, in my view, bizarre. All of JL’s apparent strangeness can be explained by trauma and/or guilt about cheating on PF and/or hiding something that is immaterial to whether BM is the perpetrator or not but about which she is ashamed. While I am not suggesting JL was r*ped, something like that is not an uncommon thing to hide. I actually think it’s possible that JL and PF were running drugs and this was the reason for the confrontation with BM, but that doesn’t change BM being the killer. Point being, it doesn’t follow that if she is hiding something it’s an involvement in a conspiracy or that she killed PF.

And once again, why this elaborate and dangerous plot? Whether she killed him then or killed him earlier, it’s still an issue. What did she do with the body? Moreover, she somehow planted BM’s DNA on her shirt and in the car? And she’d done all the research and planning to pin it on a guy who was a lowlife, in the area at the right time, and had no alibi (farfetched enough as it is), but then didn’t provide a 100% perfect description of everything about him to police? Or somehow she just got lucky with BM’s DNA ending up in the right places and him being the right sort of person in the right place?

The police framed BM? How - when at the time the DNA was collected and analysed they didn’t have his DNA? And then they waited until someone came forward naming him as a suspect before going after him? So - what - if that person hadn’t come forward they wouldn’t have gone after him even though they intended to frame him? Or they conspired with the person who gave the tip to fit their framing narrative, but waited all that time to do it?

PF staging his own disappearance is also not really tenable in my view. If JL was in on it then once again why the elaborate plot that also relied entirely on her not revealing the truth? She would be going to an extraordinary amount of trouble for him when she has been hounded and questioned for years.

If JL wasn’t in on it, that means PF arranged someone to stage his murder, terrorise JL and help him get away. What in his history suggests he would do that to JL? There are also much simpler ways of disappearing if you’re prepared to go to those lengths, rather than stage a brutal murder on an outback highway in the middle of the night. And we come back to other points above. If BM was the associate helping him, why has he not said anything? He would also surely not have been dumb enough to participate in such a scheme and not hold on to proof that PF was alive as an insurance policy. And if it was someone else, why is it BM’s DNA and none of theirs that was found?

The lack of blood I think has been misinterpreted. I have read opinions that people do not bleed externally as much as we think from bloodshot wounds - the bleeding is often internal. We also don’t know exactly where PF was shot or if this was a fatal wound or something that merely incapacitated him. JL did not witness the event itself, but merely heard the shot.

BM’s conviction may be unsafe - may not have truly met the threshold for criminal conviction - but that is different to him not being the perpetrator.

I agree with most of what you have said. We don't know what happened out there that night and I don't think we ever will. Im pretty sure Murdoch is guilty, but am keeping in mind the NT Police dont have a very good track record! I think it was just an unfortunate random murder. If they were involved in drug trafficking, which is very possible, Joanne surely would have admitted it by now. I believe what people have called Joannes 'bizarre' behavior comes down to her being in shock and trying very hard to keep her sanity. JL was over whelmed by the whole situation and all the attention. Some people keep their feelings very guarded and are unable to show outwardly how they really feel. i think if she had of let her guard down she would have lost the plot. Thats how she came across to me, some one who was using all their strength just to hold on, keep in mind we didn't see her tears behind closed doors.

 

[ms finch]

I agree with most of what you have said. We don't know what happened out there that night and I don't think we ever will. Im pretty sure Murdoch is guilty, but am keeping in mind the NT Police dont have a very good track record! I think it was just an unfortunate random murder. If they were involved in drug trafficking, which is very possible, Joanne surely would have admitted it by now. I believe what people have called Joannes 'bizarre' behavior comes down to her being in shock and trying very hard to keep her sanity. JL was over whelmed by the whole situation and all the attention. Some people keep their feelings very guarded and are unable to show outwardly how they really feel. i think if she had of let her guard down she would have lost the plot. Thats how she came across to me, some one who was using all their strength just to hold on, keep in mind we didn't see her tears behind closed doors.

I agree with your assessment of JL here and throughout the thread (which I did read!).

She had an absolutely horrendous experience that night - I can’t imagine much more terrifying than thinking your partner is dead and having a gun pointed at your head in the middle of the night in the middle of the outback in a foreign country. I would not expect her memory to be fullproof or her behaviour to be logical.

I don’t really understand why it is considered odd that BM didn’t chase her. He had a huge mess on the road to deal with, and while the Stuart Hwy isn’t the M5, it does have traffic on it. The last thing he needed was to have someone drive past and spot two vehicles and a body on the road. JL could have been anywhere - hiding close by or still running - he could have found her in 5 minutes or spent hours searching. He had to either take his chances with JL reporting the matter or take his chances with a body being seen. I can see why he cleaned up and left. He also, by his own admission, was doing a drug run - he had limited time to get to his destination.

JL’s adrenaline would have protected her, to a point, from the cold. And if she was just hiding and staying still, that explains why there was limited evidence of scratches and grazes on her. I don’t think JL would have been clear on times; in that situation a minute would have seemed like an hour. BM could have spent 2 minutes looking for her and it may have seemed like hours.

If she knew BM at all, why the unclear identification? Why wouldn’t she have a very clear description of him? And if she was deliberately being vague at that point because there was another story to come out, why would she then confirm it was him after he was arrested? Why wouldn’t she have maintained being vague?

I agree she was a guarded person who simply didn’t react as people believe she should have and that clouds judgement. I also think in the initial stages she felt badly treated by police and the media, and that would make anyone in her situation more guarded and defensive. She was alone, in a foreign country. To me her behaviour is also consistent with someone who is certain in their point of view and feels like they have to fight everyone to get them to take it seriously. I would be getting angry and confused at that as well.

I don’t think the truck driver’s commentary now about the red car is credible at all. His claims that police left it off his statement doesn’t answer why the DPP in the NT ignored it as well. They would have spoken to him, too. Did he just not tell them, or are we to believe that they simply dismissed it? It also took him years apparently to come forward with this information, despite having ample opportunity previously.

JL having an affair is not, in my view, remotely a motive for her killing or hiring someone to kill PF. Yes, it does happen, but in all the instances of cheating that happen, the proportion of people who murder their partners as a way out is miniscule. Usually this is also when they feel trapped (I am NOT justifying it - just providing a common element from the various cases). There is nothing in JL’s history that suggests she is this type of person, and she and PF were not in the sort of relationship she couldn’t just leave.

I am not fussed that she communicated with her lover. She felt completely alone and like she couldn’t trust anyone. It is completely understandable (if a bit off putting) that she sought out the one situation that gave her a bit of comfort.

I feel terrible for her for what she went through and for how people have treated her over the years. She might not be someone I would choose to be friends with, but that doesn’t make her someone who would assist in framing a person for murder, let alone being a murderer herself.

I have read - elsewhere not here; I’m not tackling anyone here about this at all - that people think BM is innocent because they have gone to prison and met him and he seems like a nice genuine guy. JFC. Even if you don’t believe he murdered PF he is not a nice guy. He is a despicable lowlife. Some of these people also point to the fact that he maintains his innocence. Right, because all killers confess and if they don’t they are obviously innocent.