Hot Topic The Pres, CEO & the Board

[TheHeatleyStand]

Now try again!
If at the start of the year i was told we were going to have 10-15 players on the injury list for the most part of the year i absolutely would have said and expected we would be finishing bottom .
Without a doubt .
Nice twisting of the circumstances well done .

make a side using your best 22 players

 

[cookie monster]

Nope.

This was always going to be our hardest year as we have turned over 42 players and most are very young. At the moment we have no depth and with the injuries we have had it has exacerbated it. I thought 4 wins would be a solid year. At the moment with what we have put on the park I am surprised we have had one win and not any 100 point thrashings.

The positive for me is I see a lot fo genuine talent coming through. IMO SOS has done an incredible job to this point especially with what he has had to work with. There aren't many trades I reckon we have been on the bad side. People need to remember we had a shocking list. Our previous ten years prior to SOS/Bolts was pathetic. Couldn't be worse. I see us being like GWS in its first year without as many picks or ability to bring in mature players.

We started from SCRATCH. Young talent takes 3-4 years minimum to step up and handle AFL football. When you have 20 plus of them it's hard.

I am excited by our draftees. Cripps Charlie Weiteirng SOS Dow LOB Williamson McKay Fisher will be fantastic players for the club. I have high hopes for the others as well. Kennedy Marchbank Pickett have been good recruits with big futures. This is the core of next successful side.

Is everything perfect? NO but we are doing alot right and over the next 2-3 years it will start to really show through.

People need to look past the negatives at the moment. If you look hard enough you can find them. We are at the start of this and the club and it's supporters need to stick together.

ONE thing I can tell people for sure is the playing group is tight and happy and tough decisions will be made. They just haven't got all the tools yet. Another draft/trade period and a big pre season and 2019 will be a step forward. There is no short term fix and the club knows it. People need to show patience and support it because for all the whingeing it isn't going to change.

I'll agree with you on the note regarding they playing group being tight and happy. Retention doesn't seem to be an issue, and as I've heard on the grape vine, Cripps has re-signed, and will be announced imminently.

However you are scrambling for excuses. The structure we are playing with week to week is totally incoherent. Players running away from a ball carrier to fill a perceived position in a zone is totally ridiculous. We do not play tight enough defensively, and we cannot score quick enough offensively. It's a double negative.

There are issues with our football department that need sorting out quicksmart. You have a glass half full view, but you would given your family connection. For me it's black and white, don't accept this year without effecting some real change. That would be the true failing

 

[Soapy V]

what kind of improvement?
two games won?

see? we have to get to definitions about what an improvement is
what is expected after a 66 game rebuild?
etc

because the club is giving no clarity with markers

which is why everybody is confused

Why are people confused? It's the start of rebuild. Judging on wins is naive. We have a list full of kids and deckchairs (that will be moved on this year)

It takes time. If people are confused they really don't have much of feel for how long it takes for young players to consistently influence games

 

[Soapy V]

I'll agree with you on the note regarding they playing group being tight and happy. Retention doesn't seem to be an issue, and as I've heard on the grape vine, Cripps has re-signed, and will be announced imminently.

However you are scrambling for excuses. The structure we are playing with week to week is totally incoherent. Players running away from a ball carrier to fill a perceived position in a zone is totally ridiculous. We do not play tight enough defensively, and we cannot score quick enough offensively. It's a double negative.

There are issues with our football department that need sorting out quicksmart. You have a glass half full view, but you would given your family connection. For me it's black and white, don't accept this year without effecting some real change. That would be the true failing

NOPE!

 

[JustaBattler]

Brisbane are showing how development shouldn't be judged too harshly as things can turn pretty quickly at any time given a decent run with continuity and injury. Richmond and Bulldogs have shown that once arriving at middling level or entry level into finals - matching and beating so called Top4 sides can happen despite everyone not seeing it. Hawthorn have shown that rebuilds take time - even if everything goes according to plan.

Total rebuilds are difficult -very difficult and yet that is what the Club embarked on a couple of years ago with a view towards the long term.

Membership numbers aren't going backwards - even though in some people's minds the Club is. I think membership numbers are a type of 'vote' and the votes are saying please continue.

As for win/loss - the reality is that the Club has been fielding a side with only half a functioning midfield all year - which makes defensive structure impossible to be maintained - and defensive structure itself has been severely impacted by lack of continuity due to injuries. Forward lines are even more diabolic to work when the midfield isn't capable of transitioning or maintaining defensive pressure.

It wont take much to see massive improvement coming - just a couple more decent mids and access to injured players next year will see significant change.

This is the process/journey that the Board is backing - snipers can point to short term pain or apparent lack of progress judged by one measure- win/loss. Same snipers will likely complain of not enough wins or no flag next year ....Same personality types pushed for Malthouse - desperate 'reaches' for magic pill solutions - entitled naysayers - losers.

 

[Iamcarlton]

make a side using your best 22 players

Dont need to its been done elsewhere and isnt factual .
The damage has been done wouldnt matter what side we put on the park now .
The fitness level of our list would now be so far down on other sides due to injuries its a lost cause .
Injuries to the tune of ours this year have brought many sides down better sides than us .
Happens every year and will continue to happen its the nature of the game .
If anybody thinks a young rebuilding bottom 4 side is going to cope with an injury toll like ours this year im afraid they are delusional .

 

[Soapy V]

make a side using your best 22 players

for this season I would have selected something like:

Docherty Weitering Plowman
Byrne Marchbank Williamson
Pickett Cripps Simpson
Charlie Casboult Dow
Murphy McKay Fisher
Kruezer Kennedy SPS
Int: Curnow Cuningham O'Brien Garlett
Em: Silvagni Lang Macreadie Jones

How many times have most of these played and how many games have they played uninjured or together???

IMO that side would have won 4-6 games this year

 

[Doro]

mate memberships were practically given away recently
you can pick up a very basic membership for $50 with a beg on the phone

I know a couple of people who bought one recently
it was the begging that was the deal maker for one of those two guys

they used to but premium membership

Taking steps to grow the membership? Sounds ok to me. Broke the clubs membership record this year. The team is a few years away from drawing the members in via quality footy, so do everything possible to grow it in the meantime.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Brisbane are showing how development shouldn't be judged too harshly as things can turn pretty quickly at any time given a decent run with continuity and injury. Richmond and Bulldogs have shown that once arriving at middling level or entry level into finals - matching and beating so called Top4 sides can happen despite everyone not seeing it. Hawthorn have shown that rebuilds take time - even if everything goes according to plan.

Total rebuilds are difficult -very difficult and yet that is what the Club embarked on a couple of years ago with a view towards the long term.

Membership numbers aren't going backwards - even though in some people's minds the Club is. I think membership numbers are a type of 'vote' and the votes are saying please continue.

As for win/loss - the reality is that the Club has been fielding a side with only half a functioning midfield all year - which makes defensive structure impossible to be maintained - and defensive structure itself has been severely impacted by lack of continuity due to injuries. Forward lines are even more diabolic to work when the midfield isn't capable of transitioning or maintaining defensive pressure.

It wont take much to see massive improvement coming - just a couple more decent mids and access to injured players next year will see significant change.

This is the process/journey that the Board is backing - snipers can point to short term pain or apparent lack of progress judged by one measure- win/loss. Same snipers will likely complain of not enough wins or no flag next year ....Same personality types pushed for Malthouse - desperate 'reaches' for magic pill solutions - entitled naysayers - losers.

Spot on Brisbane are in actual the proof of what can happen when a young side and players get continuity with a fit side and list .
You look at their side and list and many of the names they have in their side and playing well
one could compare them to many that have been on our injury list .
All players need continuity to perform at their best in particular young players whose fitness base is already behind a lot of their more mature opponents .
The naivety of people regarding our injuries is astonishing .

 

[gab213]

what kind of improvement?
two games won?

see? we have to get to definitions about what an improvement is
what is expected after a 66 game rebuild?
etc

because the club is giving no clarity with markers

which is why everybody is confused

Improvement in performance both in a team sense and that of players who will by then be 3rd and 4th year players. I want to see more consistency in performance.

I want to see less of us getting beat up on. I want to see us going into more games with a reasonable expectation of winning.

No, 2 wins will not be acceptable. I don't expect us to be world beaters but I do expect us to be much better and playing a better brand of football.

 

[harrisendblue]

Absolutely. A changed approach is what is now required. The money ball attempt had a place but we need genuine 100% guaranteed quality now. Not injury prone players that our medicos are attempting to fix.

Shiel etc. is tantalising in that respect


Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Clearly Shiel would be a gem however and this is why its so hard - Shield wont be coming this year. He was interviewed on Triple M and stated he aint going anywhere next year.

Might end up being some disgruntled doggies and some more moneyball types - brodie/scrimshaw.

I don't think you can ever get the 100% guaranteed quality unless they want to come to us. At the moment money would be the only thing we could offer and even in that respect we would have competition from North, Saints and Hawks.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

for this season I would have selected something like:

Docherty Weitering Plowman
Byrne Marchbank Williamson
Pickett Cripps Simpson
Charlie Casboult Dow
Murphy McKay Fisher
Kruezer Kennedy SPS
Int: Curnow Cuningham O'Brien Garlett
Em: Silvagni Lang Macreadie Jones

How many times have most of these played and how many games have they played uninjured or together???

IMO that side would have won 4-6 games this year

your complete half back line
Kreuzer Picketty have a history of injuries
cashoult has been dropped and McKay isn't played by the match committee
Simpson is almost 35
Cunningham was not a preferred player in the team anyway

there's a few guys who came injured or get injured plus guys the match committee doesn't rate even with injuries

The point is many of them are chronically injured or not up to it and they have actually been playing

you haven't highlighted the other imports like mullet lamb oshea Phillips lobbe kerridge etc
plus all the others we have recruited and delisted over the last three years

maybe our recruiting and development is poor?

maybe the medics too

and maybe the coaches

The thing is you are being too dismissive of the facts on the ground

 

[harrisendblue]

Interesting this. It suggests that if our club admin have been slow to move with the times, the same can be said for our supporter base.

Exactly. For the number of supporters we have Australia wide and the high ratings we get in all media categories its amazing our numbers are what they are.

Hopefully every Carlton supporting Bigfooty contributor is a carlton member.

 

[Soapy V]

your complete half back line
Kreuzer Picketty have a history of injuries
cashoult has been dropped and McKay isn't played by the match committee
Simpson is almost 35
Cunningham was not a preferred player in the team anyway

there's a few guys who came injured or get injured plus guys the match committee doesn't rate even with injuries

The point is many of them are chronically injured or not up to it and they have actually been playing

you haven't highlighted the other imports like mullet lamb oshea Phillips lobbe kerridge etc
plus all the others we have recruited and delisted over the last three years

maybe our recruiting and development is poor?

maybe the medics too

and maybe the coaches

The thing is you are being too dismissive of the facts on the ground

Ohh FFS keep making up your own criteria. You wanted best 22 for this year. That's it. Go through any side and you can say old, not up to it etc. OUR LIST ISN"T FINISHED AND MOST ARE YOUNG

 

[cookie monster]

What is clear is that some supporters here just won't have the club's administration being questioned; just won't have it.

Challenging decision makers is healthy. It's the non-challenging of decision making over the last 20 years that has gotten us in trouble.

How many of you guys thought we should just persist with Wayne Hughes for "another year" whilst he was failing in the most important position at the club?

 

[harrisendblue]

This is the statement I am having real trouble with at the moment.

If you had been told at the start of the year, we would scrape one win out of the next 22 games, and be non-competitive against the sides that sit 13-17 on the ladder, there's not a chance in hell you would have accepted that for par. So why are you accepting it now?

Just absolute denial from some on this board. We are in trouble, and if we don't identify and fix the issues, we are going to end up with this rebuild culminating in a grand total of 2 elimination final wins again. I'm certainly not OK with that

I don't think anyone would have predicted only winning one game however before being to damming of our last two games don't forget that we received in game injuries in both games that completely ruined our structure and chances of winning.

Watching CC in the ruck was the hardest thing however that's what happens when you lose a crucial player. Im not sure they would have beaten either side however they would not have lost by 10 goals either.

 

[Accidental genius]

are you guys on the correct thread?

 

[passmark]

Exactly. For the number of supporters we have Australia wide and the high ratings we get in all media categories its amazing our numbers are what they are.

Hopefully every Carlton supporting Bigfooty contributor is a carlton member.

Yes, and their kids in many cases.

I've never questioned why I pay for 3 memberships every year but I will be next year.

And I wouldn't get too excited about our support Australia wide. 15 years of shit has pretty much seen the support fall off.

There's the rusted on types but there's no new Blues coming through in WA.

 

[passmark]

What is clear is that some supporters here just won't have the club's administration being questioned; just won't have it.

Challenging decision makers is healthy. It's the non-challenging of decision making over the last 20 years that has gotten us in trouble.

How many of you guys thought we should just persist with Wayne Hughes for "another year" whilst he was failing in the most important position at the club?

Cmon man. Graham is getting some games and Watson and Temay are gunna tear it up once the MC take the blinkers off!!

 

[ESKIE]

Passy has woken up and had a coffee

 

[Arr0w]

What is clear is that some supporters here just won't have the club's administration being questioned; just won't have it.

Challenging decision makers is healthy. It's the non-challenging of decision making over the last 20 years that has gotten us in trouble.

How many of you guys thought we should just persist with Wayne Hughes for "another year" whilst he was failing in the most important position at the club?

No issues with dissecting or challenging decisions that have been made, but at some point some balance needs to be <inserted>

• Was it not a general consensus, that the club should finally embrace the young talent pool and finally embrace a planned rebuild?
• We are last on the ladder, yet membership is stable/on the rise?
• People that are being added to the back office, are not "jobs for the boys" as has been for many years?

Errors will be made, like adding the likes of all 3 in Mullet, O'Shea and Shaw, but when you analyse the cost, it is simple and easy to reverse.

If people want to continue to dwell or live in the past, no organisation will ever move forward

It doesn't need the best players, coach, game-plan, it just needs buy in

 

[harrisendblue]

Yes, and their kids in many cases.

I've never questioned why I pay for 3 memberships every year but I will be next year.

And I wouldn't get too excited about our support Australia wide. 15 years of shit has pretty much seen the support fall off.

There's the rusted on types but there's no new Blues coming through in WA.

Well I applaud you Pass and I also have multiple memberships. For me its never something to question. Unless I go bankrupt (very unlikely) the memberships are always budgeted for.

It doesn't surprise to hear about WA seeing there are two local sides.

Its a catch 22 we need the cash from memberships and having low numbers because people have dropped off has hurt us for the last 20 years in developing all aspects of the club.

Stay the course Pass, when the tide turns you will enjoy it even more.

 

[BlueGum]

Taking steps to grow the membership? Sounds ok to me. Broke the clubs membership record this year. The team is a few years away from drawing the members in via quality footy, so do everything possible to grow it in the meantime.

Agree. Did a member's survey on the weekend. Looks like they are exploring options for different price points for reserved seating. Seeing where members see value in seating level and position, functions, or arena viewing from a room. This is one of Liddle's known strengths. Predicting more growth next year.

 

[passmark]

Well I applaud you Pass and I also have multiple memberships. For me its never something to question. Unless I go bankrupt (very unlikely) the memberships are always budgeted for.

It doesn't surprise to hear about WA seeing there are two local sides.

Its a catch 22 we need the cash from memberships and having low numbers because people have dropped off has hurt us for the last 20 years in developing all aspects of the club.

Stay the course Pass, when the tide turns you will enjoy it even more.

The local sides didn't cause the fall off in support.

Eagles have been around for 30 years and for a long time you'd go to a WAFL and be amazed at how many kids wore navy .

Many more than Dockers support even 10 years ago. Now, zero.

 

[LanceRomance]

I'll agree with you on the note regarding they playing group being tight and happy. Retention doesn't seem to be an issue, and as I've heard on the grape vine, Cripps has re-signed, and will be announced imminently.

However you are scrambling for excuses. The structure we are playing with week to week is totally incoherent. Players running away from a ball carrier to fill a perceived position in a zone is totally ridiculous. We do not play tight enough defensively, and we cannot score quick enough offensively. It's a double negative.

There are issues with our football department that need sorting out quicksmart. You have a glass half full view, but you would given your family connection. For me it's black and white, don't accept this year without effecting some real change. That would be the true failing

I agree, the board should not feel comfortable and a little change is needed to show something tangible is taking place.