The Pumpa has lost it.

[Brant]

Hypocritical some of the comments in here. It's logical & common sense. If it happens in PD then that's great but it hasn't happened yet & it concerns me. I'm sure it concerns every Hawthorn supporter so don't deny it & if it doesn't well you know sweet FA about football & depth.

For the entire pre season every thread on this board has consisted of "WE NEED A READY MADE RUCKMAN" & with pick 39 to have James Craig (who so many spoke highly of & Nathan Vardy available, I am very confused on why we didn't select either two) & instead opted for a guy who has played 3 games. He may turn out to be a super player in the future but that's exactly what he is a 'future' player. It was even mentioned he will be a project player. So still come next year, we are without a 3rd ruckman. Every hawthorn supporter would have been rapt if one of Craig or Vardy were drafted to us as we would of known a 3rd ruckman was available to play if one of taylor or renouf obtained an injury (let's pray they don't).

If you've lost respect for me because I am clearly stating the obvious, then I've lost respect for you for not realising that we are desperate for a 3rd ruck. I am passionate & I am Hawthorn through & through, I want to witness more premierships just like you.

Mate I too was pretty disappointed when I looked at the results from the draft and failed to recognise some names I hoped to see.

Looking at it after a few hrs & with emotion removed I am a lot happier with our choices. Realistically, a recycled ruckman was not going to win us a premiership in 2010 and would certainly not be assisting us as a list clogger in 2011.

True, I was desperate to get JWS & I said so on BF many times - but seriously, he trained with us for 3 weeks. We looked at him day in & day out & had approx 3 chances to get him before he was selected by the Saints - that we let him go means to me that we just couldn't see him getting up. We didn't miss him - we threw him back...

In reflection I realised 1 last thing - the 2008 premiership cost us a lot and may have set back the group a yr or 2 through the young bodies we pushed so hard. (I am quoting someone here but I forget who - props to them for this idea tho). I think that the HFC are ensuring 6 - 8 yrs success here with last years & this years draft as opposed to chasing a flag at all costs ala the Bears.

HFC will be competitive in 2010 against ageing lists in their primes (brissie, cats & Saints). By 2011 we will be unstoppable and will be so for years to come.

Chill out Pumpa & enjoy the ride - no one doubts your passion, but if it is that upsetting then join the club in a way that your opinion is heard, or seek a hobby that provides enjoyment. Just my opinion mate but I hope there is something in there for you.

 

[bards]

I never said that Vardy wasn't rated. Just because he is the best rated ruck doesnt mean he is the answer to our needs. He was the best of a pretty average bunch. My reference to Craig being dominant was that he dominated the under 18 championships. I know that Vardy was rated as the best ruckman coming into the draft, probably because he has the right size. The fact that Craig was able to dominate at the championships, despite being only 195cm is a pretty good insight into how good the ruckmen in this draft were. So Pattison is gone. I dont think he wanted to play with us anyhow. No we either get one as a rookie, or hope our luck holds until Bailey gets back. If not, we'll have to pinch hit until he does.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Pumpa, you've found the ideal way to lose alot of peoples respect on this board.

You're just a punter, like the rest of us, so accept that the club make the decisions and have faith that they know what they are doing.

If that's too hard, then go watch the 2008 grand final, and maybe then you'll start to understand what the decisions the people with the power make can deliver.

So he's lost respect because he's questioned the decisions the club he supports, the club he pays to watch, the club he invests in to be a part of's decisions?

Haha.

Yes, let's all just be robots and piss in each other's pockets.

 

[bards]

I also agree that adding kids will set us up for the next 5 years. Realistically, Melbourne is the last club with a chance to clean up in the draft for the next few years. They have the nucleus now. St.Kilda, Geelong will falll away. There lists are aging. Brisbane IMHO have topped up for a big crack, but may fall away if it doesnt come off. Brown, Fev, Black, Power etc having got ages left. Port, Freo and Richmond are rubbish. adelaides kind of in between. North are rubbish. Collingwood I dont rate, but somehow they keep making finals. Carlton may be ok, if they can find enough goals. There midfield is good / should be good. Doggies will be there abouts with Barry, but it needs to be now, or they need a young KPF, which they might have in the wings. Essendon I dont like to talk about, not sure but they might be ok. Anyhow, what I am trying to say is that there is a big chance that a side, in these circumstance could dominate for more than the usual period. That could be us. As long as we have enough kids coming through to replace a few as they go out at the top, we are a big chance to get 2 or even 3 flags in the next 5 years. That would give us 3 or 4 in 7 years, I'll take that.

 

[hawks_time]

the club he invests in to be a part of's decisions?

I'm not disagreeing with your points, but which decisions have they consulted members over recently?

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

Can we still delist before the the next draft?? If so with the pick up of Hooper, Stokes should be worried. Cut him that should give us two picks go with Coad/Roe and Putt/Skipper.

 

[rdhopkins2]

Done very well in my opinion. Whilst nothing is guarenteed, thus far everything has gone according to the master plan. These kids have great potential. It is now up to them to work hard and for the club to provide them with the guidance required to succeed.

Hooper was a gamble but with blokes around like Junior, Buddy and Changa, hopefully they can encourage him in his footy ability.

For those that are worried that some of these blokes aren't as well known as others- just think for a second

 

[grizzlym]

Can we still delist before the the next draft?? If so with the pick up of Hooper, Stokes should be worried. Cut him that should give us two picks go with Coad/Roe and Putt/Skipper.

We can. Port will in all likelihood to make Cloke room

 

[Cosmo Kramer]

Did you ever think re:ruckman, that the ruckman we want we knew would still be around in the rookie draft.

 

[grizzlym]

Did you ever think re:ruckman, that the ruckman we want we knew would still be around in the rookie draft.

Probably not Brock. But one other dude, yes.

 

[BYWs Dimi Pumpa]

Quote:Originally Posted by Cosmo Kramer
Did you ever think re:ruckman, that the ruckman we want we knew would still be around in the rookie draft.

Quote: Originally Posted by Grizzlym
Probably not Brock. But one other dude, yes.

Did you ever think that Port actually has a pick before us in the PD & have shown a lot of interest in Cloke. Don't think they won't take hime because if your up to speed with everything Cosmo Kramer, Port Adelaide are also looking for a ruckman. I highly doubt that Cloke will be wearing brown & gold in 2010 so we are now left with the scraps. Prior to tonight Cloke was the perfect fit for hawthorns ruck stocks with pick 69 in my opinion. But now the chances are almost slim to zero.


Quote:Originally Posted by GALON
Pumpa, you've found the ideal way to lose alot of peoples respect on this board.

You're just a punter, like the rest of us, so accept that the club make the decisions and have faith that they know what they are doing.

If that's too hard, then go watch the 2008 grand final, and maybe then you'll start to understand what the decisions the people with the power make can deliver.


Gee aren't you smart GALON, Just an FYI, I was @ the 2008 Grand Final & I saw a great premiership victory. I tell you what I saw Galon. A Hawthorn team that fielded their best 22 players. What kids played that game... hmmm Cyril (pick 11) & Renouf (pick 24). Was there anyone else GALON, was there a player who was picked up @ 69? at the end of the day we need a 3rd ruckman & with pick 69 selected another forward - we filled the mark williams gap by selecting Hooper & we also have pederson & Lisle sitting in the wings. Cloke @ 69 was the perfect pick. Port Adelaide were never going to use the 3 picks they had 8,9 & 16 on cloke but come PD they would use their first PD pick to fill their holes. I just hope another player catches their eye.

Quote:Originally Posted by Judd2Sewell
So he's lost respect because he's questioned the decisions the club he supports, the club he pays to watch, the club he invests in to be a part of's decisions?

Haha.

Yes, let's all just be robots and piss in each other's pockets.

Thanks Judd2Sewell. From what I hear the paid up Hawthorn members aren't allowed to air their opinion. It doesn't matter that we go to every game that is played, that we pay our membership fees, that we support the club & live and breath Hawthorn. If someone doesn't like what you say then you get shot down. As much as I hate to type this, to all the supporters who can't unite & support another fellow hawks supporter then go and buy a Richmond membership & knick off.

 

[Neville Bartos]

I have no idea about the players we selected, but I have enough idea that players who were selected when no-one else showed any interest don't usually end up becoming good players.

Take a look at great names like Luke Molan, Daniel McAlister, James Davies, Jarrod Oakleigh-Nicholls etc.

Geez, just accept that Pelchen had a shit one. We're not all perfect

 

[hawks_time]

Geez, just accept that Pelchen had a shit one. We're not all perfect

You can't be serious Neville. At least wait until they've played 1 game ffs

 

[Neville Bartos]

You can't be serious Neville. At least wait until they've played 1 game ffs

If we picked Tom Murphy with our 2nd pick in 2004, would I be accepting of our recruitment staff on principle and wait till he played his first game? A stupidly risky pick is what it is.

 

[hawks_time]

But why do you think it's so bad? What do you think about WB picking Christian Howard?
In the end I'm going to hold more stock in the staff who spend so long going over our list, assessing our needs and assessing the potential draftees rather than some people who complain on the internet when more than half the time they don't know the goings-ons within the club.

 

[KAURAN]

I must admit im not very happy about our pick 39, very stuiped i think. but im am happy with the sounds of stratton now he im excited about!!! but for the rest of the picks are very dissapointing. really bad day in the office

 

[Mappa]

I would've liked us to make a big play for D Jolly instead of S Burgoyne. I think he would've made a huge difference to us.

Think we need to set the record straight on this one.

Hawthorn had been talking to Burgoyne for the better part of 18 months. We knew he wanted to leave, we knew he wanted to come to Melbourne to play. We committed to picking him up. At that time we had 5 ruckmen !!!

We can't say, sorry Shaun, we're a bit skinny in the ruck division now, so all those talks and committments are finished now mate. I'm glad the club stuck to it's word to him and showed the sorted of committment and loyalty we expect of them.

Let's get over the ruck thing please. PRIOR to Jolly arriving at Collingwood, can someone please tell me their all-conquering ruck division consists of ? Fraser and Wood. That's right, Fraser and Wood. Here's a team that finished in the Top 4 and we smashed them late in the season.

2009 wasn't lost in the rucks, and 2010 wont be either. After hearing Pelchin talk, I trust the man.

 

[floki]

They say a picture paints a thousand words, here is a picture of a thousand words, look at it carefully and find the deeper meaning within if you wish to find enlightenment pumpa.

:spade:

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Mate, I don't give two shits what you or Jim from Hawthorn think of our draft because unless you're an AFL recruiter, you'd have no idea - just like me.

Let's just wait and see how they go before we start rubbishing them.

And that is the whole thing in a nutshell. Let's face it, most of us know stuff all about most of the players who were drafted, and yet there are those who carry on like experts in the field.

We've drafted the players, it is done, no point in whingeing about it, let's just get on with it. We've got a flag to win FFS!!!

 

[Cheeseman]

The Pumpa never had it to lose.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Let's get over the ruck thing please. PRIOR to Jolly arriving at Collingwood, can someone please tell me their all-conquering ruck division consists of ? Fraser and Wood. That's right, Fraser and Wood. Here's a team that finished in the Top 4 and we smashed them late in the season.

2009 wasn't lost in the rucks, and 2010 wont be either. After hearing Pelchin talk, I trust the man.

Exactly. Fremantle have the most dominant ruckman in the AFL. How do they travel? Ruckmen are nice to have, but extremely over-rated.

 

[eldorado]

If we picked Tom Murphy with our 2nd pick in 2004, would I be accepting of our recruitment staff on principle and wait till he played his first game? A stupidly risky pick is what it is.

Poor analogy.

Pick 5 in 2004, compared to picks in the stratosphere in 2009.

FWIW, I am neither an apologist nor a critic.

The only absolute fact we have is that the Hawthorn staff know our need better than us, and have access to better information than us.

Is that true or not?

Then why the angst?

 

[Goldnbrown]

No not "everyone" just people who have acknowledged ruck problems & are now happy to settle for a project ruckman. Nothing disrespectful to the youngster. If we don't for some unbeknown reasons select a mature ruck in the upcoming draft watch everyones frustration. So you're telling me that you wouldnt have been rapt to have picked up Maguire. Right champ. Brisbane with pick 91. what a joke.

Just for the record though bards, Vardy was the most rated out of the available ruckman, even Alastair lynch said it. Don't think I don't know nothing about footy. Because I know plenty, just watch MR langford & MR stubbs when they land on our lists next year now they are players I call quality. - add the kids we already have & the possibility of derek kickett aswell next year, then you will see why I don't worry about the kids in this years draft (With such a shallow draft). Should have taken minimum 2 mature players tonight & 3 kids max. As they say 3rd round picks+, most of these players don't last too long unless you find a hidden gem.

Yes I am telling you that I am happy we did not pick Maguire at all, you seem to have a menatl block that has cut teh last 3 years from your memory, he is NOT the player he was 3 years ago. We already have one injured Key backman in Croad , we do not have room for another.

Ahh Alastair Lynch a respected talent scout?

Also, excuse me for stating the bleeding obvious BUT if teh club doesnt selct a mataure age ruckman do you think that maybe , just maybe they know a bit more than you?

 

[Hungry Hawk]

Did you ever think that Port actually has a pick before us in the PD & have shown a lot of interest in Cloke. Don't think they won't take hime because if your up to speed with everything Cosmo Kramer, Port Adelaide are also looking for a ruckman. I highly doubt that Cloke will be wearing brown & gold in 2010 so we are now left with the scraps. Prior to tonight Cloke was the perfect fit for hawthorns ruck stocks with pick 69 in my opinion. But now the chances are almost slim to zero.


Quote:Originally Posted by GALON
Pumpa, you've found the ideal way to lose alot of peoples respect on this board.

I cant speak for Cosmo but IMO Cloke is crap, cant mark, cant kick and cant ruck. Port can have him. He wont be the difference between a flag.

Even though I think you shouldnt have carried on Pumpa, no one should be told to piss off to Richmond. And we should all unite behind our new draftees and hope as many as possible can thrive. Bring on 2010.

 

[WWSD]

i dont expect any of the young players 2 play in the seniors next yr.. how we didnt get MaGuire & Smith idk we will get a delisted ruckmen with 1 of our 2 picks in the RD perhaps Cloke or Meesen