The rankings (from best to worst) of the 128 VFL/AFL premiership teams.

[MisterMarcus]

Can anyone imagine being THIS obsessed with how someone else ranks your premiership team?

 

[Chief]

Hope we have another 20 years of this thread so I can keep laughing at people not understanding that it only measures performance over one season.

How would you rank each of those 20 years?

 

[Cleansweep17]

Can anyone imagine being THIS obsessed with how someone else ranks your premiership team?

View attachment 2130628

I’m surprised Fadge is that high tbh.

Collingwood aren’t really around “best of” discussions. Unless it’s chokes.

 

[Fadge]

I’m surprised Fadge is that high tbh.

Collingwood aren’t really around “best of” discussions. Unless it’s chokes.

Meanwhile, Richmond are the WORST spooners since Carlton.

Misery, company, all that.

 

[Thrawn]

How do you factor in the dilution of talent, given there are now 18 clubs, whilst 20 years ago there were only 16?

Inconsequential. Unless you're going to argue two extra club's worth of players makes up the difference of modern training techniques, fitness, injury management, tactics, etc all of which are light years ahead of 20 years ago?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Firstly, good on you for attempting the impossible.

Interesting that you have NM’s 1975 and 1977 flags so low. I know far less about those teams than others, but these premierships were in the midst of a run of five GF’s in succession (1974-78, and they lost a prelim in 1979)
To me, this is evidence of a pretty special team.

In the history of the AFL/VFL, this feat has been bettered only 4 times.

Hawthorn - 7 (1983-89)
Melbourne - 7 (1954-60)
Essendon - 6 (1946-51)
Collingwood - 6 (1925-30)

Am i missing something?

It is a good point. North were weak at the start of the 70's but had some strong young talent in Schimmelbusch, Grieg, Dench, Kekovich, Snake Baker, Briedis and Crazyhorse Cowton, Montgomery, Icke, Gumbleton and got Blight in from SA, Cable & Burns from WA, Sutton from Taz. During the mid 70's they added X Tanner, Feltham, Icke, and John Byrne. These were all talented players. Then they used the 10 year rule and possibly other devices to acquire from other clubs Barry Davis, John Rantall, Doug Wade, Stan Alves, Brent Croswell, Peter Keenan. There was a lot of talent that went through their teams in the 70's. They were only beaten in 3 Grand Finals by multiple Premiership teams from Hawthorn and Richmond.

I think between 67 and 89, 23 years, only 5 clubs won flags, Tigers, Blues, Hawks, North, Bombers. Every team that won a flag won more than 1 within a 6 year period max. Every one of those teams were very strong. They are not over-represented on Dan's list, put it that way.

 

[GWT6]

There was no Grand Final that year.

There was a finals series and they lost the last game. It should not count as a premiership.

 

[Dan26]

There was a finals series and they lost the last game. It should not count as a premiership.

The winning team of the season was not decided with a Grand Final. It was a round robin tournament, and the team on top was the premiers. The EPL champions sometimes lose the last game of the league season, but provided they are on top, they are the premiers.

 

[boncer34]

There was a finals series and they lost the last game. It should not count as a premiership.

Why not?

 

[GWT6]

The winning team of the season was not decided with a Grand Final. It was a round robin tournament, and the team on top was the premiers. The EPL champions sometimes lose the last game of the league season, but provided they are on top, they are the premiers.

So you agree = it's not a real premiership.

Just another thing to dislike about that slimy club.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

**** i miss 2000.........

Essendon were sick.

Final Fantasy 7 was popping off....

I still thought girls had coodies....

i didn't have a mortgage.....

 

[SplintWhisky]

**** i miss 2000.........

Essendon were sick.

Final Fantasy 7 was popping off....

I still thought girls had coodies....

i didn't have a mortgage.....

Could fly without getting molested and arrested for having a bottle of water.

The N64 was releasing banger after banger.

Pokémon was the height of cool

God, what I give to have been a 7 when 1990 started so I could of appreciated all the awesome shit that decade had with no responsibilities.

 

[SplintWhisky]

Shouldnt Geelong 2009 be a little higher on the list than 47ish? Only lost to top 8 sides for the year and also beat a side in the grand final by almost double their combined losing margin for the season (St kilda losses 2 and 5 points; GF margin 12).

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Essendon 2000 the most over rated..

They won a premiership with a midfield 6 of,
John Barnes,
Justin Blumfield

Justin Blumfield

Age

46

Ht

188cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.8

4star

K

8.2

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.4

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.4

4star

Jason Johnson

Jason Johnson

Age

46

Ht

180cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.6

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

7.5

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.8

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

1.2

2star

T

1.0

3star

Chris Heffernan

Chris Heffernan

Age

45

Ht

187cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

8.2

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

0.8

1star

T

2.0

4star

Joe Misiti

Joe Misiti

Age

49

Ht

186cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.8

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

9.6

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

1.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

22.2

5star

K

15.6

5star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.6

3star

Blake Caracella

Blake Caracella

Age

47

Ht

186cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.5

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

1.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.6

3star

All of them were okay footballers but not one of them a genuine A grader, when you compare this to the other great sides in Brisbane, Geelong, Richmond and even others like West Coast and Collingwood it looks second rate..

 

[boncer34]

Essendon 2000 the most over rated..

They won a premiership with a midfield 6 of,
John Barnes,
Justin Blumfield
Jason Johnson
Chris Heffernan
Joe Misiti
Blake Caracella

All of them were okay footballers but not one of them a genuine A grader, when you compare this to the other great sides in Brisbane, Geelong, Richmond and even others like West Coast and Collingwood it looks second rate..

And yet none of them only lost 1 game for the year.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

And yet none of them only lost 1 game for the year.

My theory is it was just a very soft year between the Carey led Kangas and the might of the Brisbane Lions era.

If you lined up The Bombers premiership team on paper v either Brisbane v Geelong great teams to select a best 22 IMO very few of the Bombers players would end up picked, Hird & Lloyd the obvious inclusions, Harwick maybe on the half back but outside of this I don't think another Essendon player makes the team.

 

[boncer34]

My theory is it was just a very soft year between the Carey led Kangas and the might of the Brisbane Lions era.

If you lined up The Bombers premiership team on paper v either Brisbane v Geelong great teams to select a best 22 IMO very few of the Bombers players would end up picked, Hird & Lloyd the obvious inclusions, Harwick maybe on the half back but outside of this I don't think another Essendon player makes the team.

Cool.

Thats irrelevant to this thread though.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

 

[Dan26]

My theory is it was just a very soft year between the Carey led Kangas and the might of the Brisbane Lions era.

If you lined up The Bombers premiership team on paper v either Brisbane v Geelong great teams to select a best 22 IMO very few of the Bombers players would end up picked, Hird & Lloyd the obvious inclusions, Harwick maybe on the half back but outside of this I don't think another Essendon player makes the team.

There is no such thing as a "soft year". When you take the 700 players in the AFL that season, or any other season the combined ability of all players is going to be about identical from year to year. How that talent is distributed among the teams can change, but it's not as if the combined ability of all 700 AFL players was somehow less in 2000 than any other year. That why the percentage tells so much. A percentage of 163% was achieved against the entire league - not just against one or two teams.

And this talk about "soft years" doesn't make sense anyway. There was a 24-1 team for crying out loud. Doesn't that alone make it a hard year given every team bar Essendon had to compete against the best team of all time? How does that compare to the 1997 season when the top team only had a 15-7 record? That 1997 season seems statistically to be a "soft" year. Isn't 2000 the opposite of a soft year? And soft from whose point of view? Ask Carlton or Melbourne of 2000 if they thought 2000 was a "soft" year. From their point of view, it was the hardest year in history, because they had to compete against Essendon.

Ask any Carlton fan if they could transplant their 2000 team (which could have been a premiership team in most other seasons) into any other season, which season they would choose? For example, if the Blues could magically transplant their 2000 team into the 1997, 1998 seasons, then they win the premiership easily. 2000 would be their last choice because they would know they couldn't win it.

It's like saying 2007 was a "soft" year because Geelong had little compeititon. Try asking Port Adelaide on Grand Final day 2007, or any other team that year that had to deal with an almost unbeatable Geelong and they will tell you it was one of the most difficult seasons to win the premiership ever, because one of the best teams of all time was participating.

 

[Thrawn]

2000 would be their last choice because they would know they couldn't win it.

Did Hawthorn think this in '08 when coming up against Geelong, who were on track on beating Essendon's '00 year?

Such BS.

Carlton vs Essendon GF would've been quite interesting. But we needed a full, healthy list to have any chance.

 

[kickazz]

Essendon 2000 the most over rated..

They won a premiership with a midfield 6 of,
John Barnes,
Justin Blumfield
Jason Johnson
Chris Heffernan
Joe Misiti
Blake Caracella

All of them were okay footballers but not one of them a genuine A grader, when you compare this to the other great sides in Brisbane, Geelong, Richmond and even others like West Coast and Collingwood it looks second rate..

Team of champions v champion team though.

The numbers stack up. And more than anything, I remember watching them play and they just looked unbeatable.

Teams that dared be close at 3qt for steamrolled. The one game they lost was extraordinary for the strategy used at the time.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Have done exactly that before in these threads. And guess what sort of response that was met with from the person you are now saying I should respect?

In my world terrybull, you call the tune, and I dance to it. Dan26 called the tune, and I am dancing to it. This world didn't commence on Monday when he made the opening post to this thread, but long ago when he showed no respect to myself and others who calmly and respectfully pointed out fatal flaws in his system of grading Premiers.

So forgive me now while I hoist him on his own petard.

It is not just that I disagree with his rankings, which of course I do. I disagree with his method of ranking. Not because of what is included, most of which is somewhat relevant to determine the best historic premiers, but because of what is wilfully excluded from his considerations, for eg....

- it is pretty clear that a team who has the indian sign over the competition for an extended period of years, say Melbourne 1955-60, is better(relative to the competition of the day) than a team with one years dominance to show for their efforts. One of anything can and often is a false sign. Extended dominance is a hell of a lot less likely to be a flase sign of how good a team actually is. Dan26 takes no account of this in his rankings.

- taking home and away "dominance" into consideration to determine the strongest premier is laughable. It is basically like saying a Grand Prix racer who wins from 3rd position on the grid has not done as well as a Grand Prix racer who wins the same race from first position on the grid. Or a Grand Prix racer who wins once after qualifying with a better average lap time is better than a Grand Prix racer who wins multiple times after qualifying with a worse average lap time. The home and away season is merely a qualifying round for grid positions in finals. A winning racer might have certain issues in qualifying, which is akin to a Premiership team suffering disruption due to unavailability during the home and away season. But the winner of the race is determined by who wins the final race only. And so it is that the best Premier would be the team that performed the best on Grand Final day.

So we get nonsense like Essendon 2000 who won one flag is number 1 all time Premier according to Dan. Whilst the Lions team who comfortably beat a reasonable facsimile of the same Essendon team 12 months later, and went on to win 3 flags, each time playing the Grand Final at the home ground of their opponent(another thing not ever mentioned) enters his rankings at 63.

Like let's just get mathematical for a moment. What would be the actual odds of a small cohort of teams, say Richmond, + Brisbane/Fitzroy winning between them approximately 1 in every 5 flags ever won in the competition....without a single entry in the top 24 Premiers of all time? Think about it.

We could go on and on, but his list of ranked Premiers is little more than a list of his own biases. All of this has been convincingly pointed out to him before by many posters. He takes no account of reasonable criticisms. Therefore he is due derision. It would be like a scientist having his theorum absolutely disproven by a fellow scientist only to continue to peddle the same theorum as if it had never been disproven - hoping new fools will be impressed by his nonsense.

It reaaaaalyyy realllly gets the better of you that the wider footy community rates so many other premiera higher than your beloved tigers of 17-20 doesnt it?

 

[Dan26]

Did Hawthorn think this in '08 when coming up against Geelong, who were on track on beating Essendon's '00 year?

Such BS.

Carlton vs Essendon GF would've been quite interesting. But we needed a full, healthy list to have any chance.

Well the Prelim blew out to 10 goals before Sheedy rested Hird and Lloyd for the entire last quarter reducing the margin to 45 points. It was essentially a 10 goals loss realistically. I know Kouta was a great player be he ain't worth 10 goals. This isn't the NBA where one player is out 1 of 5. It's Aussie Rules where you are one out of 18.

Same with the win over the Blues in round 6. Essendon led by 54, and David Parkin was noticeably upset because he thought Sheedy disrespected him in the last quarter as Sheedy shuffled the whole team around as the margin came back to 24 points. The funny thing was, as Essendon piss-farted around in the last quarter of round 6, they played Carlton into form in that irrelevant last term and the Blues went on a 13 game win streak directly after that game. Don't interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake could well be the motto there.

 

[Thrawn]

Well the Prelim blew out to 10 goals before Sheedy rested Hird and Lloyd for the entire last quarter reducing the margin to 45 points. It was essentially a 10 goals loss realistically. I know Kouta was a great player be he ain't worth 10 goals. This isn't the NBA where one player is out 1 of 5. It's Aussie Rules where you are one out of 18.

Same with the win over the Blues in round 6. Essendon led by 54, and David Parkin was noticeably upset because he thought Sheedy disrespected him in the last quarter as Sheedy shuffled the whole team around as the margin came back to 24 points. The funny thing was, as Essendon piss-farted around in the last quarter of round 6, they played Carlton into form in that irrelevant last term and the Blues went on a 13 game win streak directly after that game. Don't interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake could well be the motto there.

Funny you didn't mention Round 20 when the teams were actually even until the final quarter, when Carlton couldn't run out the game because Kouta and Bradley were injured on the bench. It was clear when the game turned. That was a true reflection of what the GF might've been like. Just remember, in Round 6, we came off a loss vs Collingwood (in fact we got smashed by them), so it wasn't exactly a true reflection of what the team was capable of because the formline leading into that game was pretty terrible.

You also didn't mention the absence of SOS in the PF, and the week off (there was no pre-finals bye then) was also a huge advantage.

As for Kouta not being worth 10 goals, maybe, but he was the best player in the competition at the time. Leigh Matthews even stated it was one of the best individual seasons he's ever seen, and he if had to pick a team, he'd take 22 Koutas. A burst of dominance from him and you don't have that 10 goal lead. He was that good.

My point is that a Carlton vs Essendon GF in 2000 would've been a better match than Melbourne.

 

[M Malice]

I’d say our 2019 team was the best of our 3. Especially with the addition of Lynch.

Went undefeated from the bye to the flag. Lots of injuries in the first half of the season.

That’s why I personally don’t rate the H&A ladder that much. Most sensible coaches time their run and don’t peak early. Injuries are also a factor.

The Lions won 16 on the trot post round 9 to win the flag in 2001.