The rankings (from best to worst) of the 128 VFL/AFL premiership teams.

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The best Premiership sides I have seen play, live at stadiums in my lifetime (I am 41 years old):

1) Carlton - 1995. I was at the SCG when Sydney beat them.
2) Essendon - 1999/2000.
2) Brisbane Lions - 2001/2002/2003.
3) Geelong Cats - 2007/2011.
4) Hawthorn - 2012/2015.

Collingwood are shit - cheers.
 

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RedWhite4Ever said:
The best Premiership sides I have seen play, live at stadiums in my lifetime (I am 41 years old):

1) Carlton - 1995. I was at the SCG when Sydney beat them.
2) Essendon - 1999/2000.
2) Brisbane Lions - 2001/2002/2003.
3) Geelong Cats - 2007/2011.
4) Hawthorn - 2012/2015.

Collingwood are shit - cheers.
Click to expand...
Richmond fury
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Lol @ this.

A club who has done the following could not get a gig in your top 34 Premiers of all time:

  • won over 10% of all Premierships ever won & 1 in 9 Premierships since they entered the competition
  • has the highest Grand Final % of any team to have ever played multiple Grand Finals within a 7 year period(222% across 3 Grand Finals)
  • has 5 of the top 15-20 most dominant finals series of any team ever ever(65, 56, 52, 49, 45 points average winning margins in separate finals series)
  • had a player who is seen by most as the greatest finals player ever
  • has the 4th & 6th most dominant finals series by % in the AFL era(35 seasons)


That is mathematically impossible & logically laughable. I think you need new criteria.
Click to expand...
Win a flag in a stronger era and have a much better home and away record in doing so and your team might be a chance of cracking the top 50.
 
RedWhite4Ever said:
The best Premiership sides I have seen play, live at stadiums in my lifetime (I am 41 years old):

1) Carlton - 1995. I was at the SCG when Sydney beat them.
2) Essendon - 1999/2000.
2) Brisbane Lions - 2001/2002/2003.
3) Geelong Cats - 2007/2011.
4) Hawthorn - 2012/2015.

Collingwood are shit - cheers.
Click to expand...
Fact check:
Essendon didn't win the flag in 1999.
Hawthorn didn't win a flag in 2012.
Collingwood are sensational.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Lol @ this.

A club who has done the following could not get a gig in your top 34 Premiers of all time:

  • won over 10% of all Premierships ever won & 1 in 9 Premierships since they entered the competition
  • has the highest Grand Final % of any team to have ever played multiple Grand Finals within a 7 year period(222% across 3 Grand Finals)
  • has 5 of the top 15-20 most dominant finals series of any team ever ever(65, 56, 52, 49, 45 points average winning margins in separate finals series)
  • had a player who is seen by most as the greatest finals player ever
  • has the 4th & 6th most dominant finals series by % in the AFL era(35 seasons)


That is mathematically impossible & logically laughable. I think you need new criteria.
Click to expand...
nice melt.
 
Fadge said:
It is.

But amazingly, it still wouldn't be up there in his Top 100 melts on BigFooty.

You need to see some of his efforts in the Geelong/Richmond thread and the Dusty Martin GOAT thread (whatever happened to that, by the way?)
Click to expand...
it's a baffling perspective to hold, and sadly shows just how single minded a lot of tigers fans are.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Lol @ this.

A club who has done the following could not get a gig in your top 34 Premiers of all time:

  • won over 10% of all Premierships ever won & 1 in 9 Premierships since they entered the competition
  • has the highest Grand Final % of any team to have ever played multiple Grand Finals within a 7 year period(222% across 3 Grand Finals)
  • has 5 of the top 15-20 most dominant finals series of any team ever ever(65, 56, 52, 49, 45 points average winning margins in separate finals series)
  • had a player who is seen by most as the greatest finals player ever
  • has the 4th & 6th most dominant finals series by % in the AFL era(35 seasons)


That is mathematically impossible & logically laughable. I think you need new criteria.
Click to expand...
I don't think we've actually seen where you'd put the '17, '19 and '20 teams before. Are we talking top 50? Top 20? Do we even get one of them top 5?
 

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Mr Meow said:
So you're not sure where you'd place the '17, '19 or '20 teams? Just going for more of a general sook about them not being high on anyone else's list?

Good stuff old boy.
Click to expand...

Well, do some basic probability calculations.

A club wins 13 flags without getting one entry into the top 34 Premiers of 128. How likely do you think that is? Like really, how probable is it?

To help you along a little bit it would require a club navigating through winning 13 premierships without once straying out of the bottom 73.5% of Premiership teams. If a club wins just 2 flags they are approximately a 50% chance of having a team in the top 34 premiers of all time.

It is pretty easy to see the o/p's method and conclusions are not credible.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Well, do some basic probability calculations.

A club wins 13 flags without getting one entry into the top 34 Premiers of 128. How likely do you think that is? Like really, how probable is it?

To help you along a little bit it would require a club navigating through winning 13 premierships without once straying out of the bottom 73.5% of Premiership teams. If a club wins just 2 flags they are approximately a 50% chance of having a team in the top 34 premiers of all time.

It is pretty easy to see the o/p's method and conclusions are not credible.
Click to expand...
Yep.

Clearly yet another conspiracy against Richmond.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Well, do some basic probability calculations.

A club wins 13 flags without getting one entry into the top 34 Premiers of 128. How likely do you think that is? Like really, how probable is it?

To help you along a little bit it would require a club navigating through winning 13 premierships without once straying out of the bottom 73.5% of Premiership teams. If a club wins just 2 flags they are approximately a 50% chance of having a team in the top 34 premiers of all time.

It is pretty easy to see the o/p's method and conclusions are not credible.
Click to expand...
Another question for you: where would you rank the '17, '19 and '20 teams?
 
By the numbers, Richmond's best premiership team was it's 1967 team, with a home and away record of 15 wins and 3 losses, and percentage of 145.9.

However, their finals percentage was 'only' 123%.

I'm sure an argument can be made for this team to be circa 25th, or 30th, or in the low 30's.

But it's certainly not outlandish that they've been ranked where they have been.

Edit: I notice Dan has ranked the 1974 Richmond premiership team as their best, slightly higher than their 1967 team. A slightly inferior home and away record, but with a superior finals record. Fair enough (and aligned to MR's position re: relative importance of finals records).

It's harder for me to judge Richmond's 2017, 2019 and 2020 premiership teams. Question without notice to Meteoric Rise - where do you think those teams should be ranked?
 
Last edited:
Fadge said:
By the numbers, Richmond's best premiership team was it's 1967 team, with a home and away record of 15 wins and 3 losses, and percentage of 145.9.

However, their finals percentage was 'only' 123%.

I'm sure an argument can be made for this team to be circa 25th, or 30th, or in the low 30's.

But it's certainly not outlandish that they've been ranked where they have been.
Click to expand...

By that reasoning the team who wins the most home & away games each year must win the flag & prove to be the best team each year. Only, that is not necessarily the case, is it? So it is abundantly clear and proven in most seasons that who wins the most home & away games is not a safe delineator of which of any set of teams is best.
 
Dan26 said:
This exercise is now in its 23rd consecutive year. More than two decades! Some on here weren't born when this first started.

Time to see where the latest premiership team fits into the list. I use my own knowledge from the time of have spent watching football combined with anecdotal, statistical, and written accounts from the early years to rank the 128 premiership teams. I use relativity, taking into account the standard of the competition at the time, so as to not disadvantage teams from the past who were not competing in a national competition, with the resources and professionalism of modern day clubs.

Brisbane won the 2024 premiership. Their 4th premiership. They had:

  • a 18-8-1 season.
  • a percentage from 27 games of 123.5%
  • Four finals victories by 28, 5, 10 and 60 points for a percentage during the finals of 132.6%
  • 5th on the ladder at end of H&A season
  • The 5th best attack
  • The 2nd best defence
Brisbane completed a remarkable finals series becoming on the 3rd team to win 4 finals to win the premiership. After losing their first 3 games, and a host of players to season ending injuries, they were written off early as a premiership contender. Slumping to 2-5 at one point, they finally started to get their game together. With 14 top-20 picks on their list, and a dynamic and unpredictable forward line, they managed to win 9 consecutive games at one point confirming their status as the form team of the second half of the season. Perhaps their poor start was a blessing. Sydney, safe on top were playing seemingly inconsequential matches, and their form suffered, while Brisbane were playing vital matches first to secure a spot in the finals, then to get into the top 4, (which they were unsuccessful at) and finally to secure a home final. This seemed to harden them for the finals, and they seemed more prepared and seasoned come Grand Final day.

I rate them as slightly better than their 5th-placed home and away finish indicated, and at number 87 overall out of 128





1.) Essendon 2000. This team earnt the right to be called the greatest in VFL-AFL history with a 24-1 record, a percentage of 163.9 from 25 games, winning three finals by an equal-record combined 230 points with margins of 125, 45 and 60 and a percentage versus the finalists of 160% - 20% higher than any other team in the modern era has managed. At no stage did they look like losing, with even their one loss being narrow, after having 27 more inside 50's, with the Bulldogs having to tactically change the way the sport was played. The Essendon team of 2000 did everything that you could ask, in order for them to be called the best ever. As close to being unbeatable as a team has ever been in VFL-AFL history, with the closest challenge being.....

2.) Collingwood 1929. This team went 19-1 over 20 matches with a percentage of 159.5. They had champions on every line, and were regarded as the greatest combination to have played to that point. The ONLY team to ever be unbeaten in the H&A season. Collingwood fans may label them the best ever VFL-AFL side – I put them at number 2 out of 127. A 62 point loss to Richmond in the finals costs them the number one position on my list. Gordon Coventry was the first to person to kick 100 goals (124) and the Pies completed the treble with Albert Collier winning the Brownlow.

3.) Melbourne 1956. The Dees were at their zenith this year with an 18-2 record and a percentage of 149.4%. Coached by the VFL-AFL coach of the century, Norm Smith and with champion players such as Barassi, Adams, Cordner and Beckwith leading the way, the 1956 Melbourne side was their best side in the most dominant era by one club in VFL-AFL history. A side that could turn it on at will. Many old-timers suggest this was the type of team who could have gone undefeated if they really wanted to.

4.) Hawthorn 1989. The Hawthorn side of ’89 was their best in one of the most powerful eras in history. The Hawks reached their zenith in ’89. They went 21-3, with a percentage of 149.5, had champions everywhere and at their best, were simply unstoppable. I rate them the 4th best of 128 premierships sides. However, unlike Essendon of 2000, or Collingwood of 1929, they didn’t quite have the aura of being totally invincible. Their loss to the Bears holds them back a spot.

5.) Essendon 1950. Tempted to put them higher, but number 5 is fair enough. Here was a team that was near invincible. Just look at their record: 19-1, with a percentage of 159.2. With Coleman at his peak, Dick Reynolds and Hutchison lurking, this was the best Essendon side in their golden era. At the time, many rated this side alongside the 1929 Magpies team as the best of all time.

6.) Geelong 2007. A fantastically dominant team in '07, winning the Grand Final be a record margin, having a percentage for the year over 160% from 25 games. Only great teams can do that. A team, who used skillful, attacking "corridor" midfield play, complimented with a group of players in the mid 20's who have played over 100 games giving them the perfect mix of youth and experience. 21-4, a percentage over 160% and three finals wins by a total of 230 points.

7.) Geelong 2011 A dominant team who didn't have any flat-spots finishing 22-3 with a percentage of 157%. The second oldest premiership side in history meant a wealth of mature bodies and experience. 3 easy finals wins, and a tough defence. More of a long kicking game plan with a defensive edge to it than the flags sides of 2007 and 2009, but perhaps a little less dominant overall than the 2007 side which is ranked one spot higher

8.) Carlton 1908. Carlton’s first golden era produced three great sides, the best of which was the 1908 side. Jack Worrall became the first ever coach, and propelled the Blues to 19-1, with a percentage of 173.7%. Old timers still hold this side as the greatest, and if modern coaching techniques were applied, no doubt they would still be hard to beat in the present day.

9.) Melbourne 1955. Marginally behind the 1956 side, this Melbourne side went 17-3 with a percentage of 150.3%, and showed the makings of a team that would continue to dominate for years to come. The 1955 Melbourne side was heralded as one of the all time greats. A great even spread of talent with no reliance on individuals - a hallmark of the Melbourne teams of this era

10.) Hawthorn 1988. Only behind their ‘89 team due to their inferior defence which conceded 200 points more than the ’89 model. This great team was ruthless, skilled and efficient, and amassed a 21-3 record. Many believe they peaked in ’88, but I believe the Hawks reached their absolute zenith in 1989. Deserve their ranking as the 9th best out of 128.

11.) Collingwood 1927. After losing the Grand Final in 1925 and 1926, this side was ready to peak. They amassed a 17-3 record, with many superstars, proving they could be a champion team and a team of champions. With Coventry kicking 97 goals, and his brother winning the Brownlow, the 1927 side featured the Magpies greats close to their best.

12.) Geelong 1952. Although other teams have amassed superior records, this Geelong side was still one of the greatest in history. They won the premiership in the middle of an unbeaten run that would stretch to 26 consecutive games into the following season, and their attacking, free-flowing style of play became a Geelong tradition. Their 18-2-1 record (140.2%) was a testament to their greatness. Geelong’s best ever side until 2007.

13.) Carlton 1995. This great side had it all - experience, hardness, skill, and a willingness to win. Amassing a 23-2 record with a percentage of 140.6% they played with a professionalism that no club had previously matched. Incredibly, did not lose to a finalist all year. They didn’t quite have the same aura of invincibility as some of the sides in the top 10, but their almost unbeatable record alone ensures them a high ranking.

14.) Carlton 1979. With a 21-3 record and a percentage of 138.9%, and three narrow, spaced losses, this team didn’t have any obvious weaknesses. They nearly blew it in the Grand Final, but their performances through the year were worthy of one of the all time great sides. A rampant mosquito fleet, with a bevy of big name stars all over the field.

15.) Essendon 1985. Sheedy's team peaked to such an extent that they blew away the opposition with a 21-3 record, and were hailed as one of the great sides of all time. With no apparent weaknesses, a top ruckman, onballers, options everywhere in attack, and a solid defence, this side ranks as one of the greats. Their three losses were all substantial which takes a little away from them, but I still rate them at number 15 out of 127.

16.) Collingwood 1928 Slightly behind their 1929, and 1927 sides the '28 side was one of the greats but perhaps not that far ahead of the other contenders that year. Finished with a 17-3-1 record, and a percentage of 132.5%. Right smack-bang in the middle of the Magpies most famous era. Won the Grand Final by 33 points. Gordon Coventry kicked 89 goals.

17.) Melbourne 1960 This Melbourne side amassed a 16-4 record but with the players at their disposal, that record arguably didn’t do them justice. This was a side that could have easily gone through the season losing only one or two games. In their 7th consecutive Grand Final, they kept Collingwood to only 2.2.14.

18.) Essendon 1911 Under the guidance of the first super-coach, Jack Worrall, who previously led the Blues to three consecutive premierships, the Same Old's as they were known at the time amassed a 17-2-1 record with a percentage (including finals) of 173.3%! The two losses were by 3 and 8 points. Unlucky not to be higher.

19.) Melbourne 1959 Another Demons super-side from their golden era. Not talked about in the same breath as 1955, 56, but this side, along with 1960, were at roughly the same level. The team has a 15-4-1 record from 20 games, winning two finals by 44 and 37 points

20.) Carlton 1907 A great side that would become even better one year later. This side topped the ladder with a percentage of 155.7%. Coached by the first VFL coach, the great Jack Worrall, the Carlton 2007 side was one of the greats.

21.) Geelong 2022. Written off as too old too slow, the 2022 Cats bounced back with the best attack, best defence a percentage of 149%, and a thumping grand Final victory. Bigger, stronger, more versatile, consistent with no obvious weaknesses.

22.) Hawthorn 1986 Just when it seemed the era was coming to and end in 1985, the experienced ruthless Hawks bounced back in 1986 to finish minor-premiers with 18 wins, and crushed Carlton by 42 points in the Grand Final. The difference between a young Jason Dunstall kicking 77 goals from 22 games in 1986, compared to his 132 in 1988 and 138 in 1989, is essentially the difference between the rankings of where those teams sit compared to this one.
________________________________________________________
23. Essendon 1962
24. Geelong 1937
25. Fitzroy 1913
26. Fitzroy 1899
27. South Melbourne 1933
28. Collingwood 2010
29. Hawthorn 2015
30. Melbourne 2021
31. Essendon 1901
32. Geelong 1925
33. Port Adelaide 2004
34. West Coast 1992
35. Richmond 1974
36. Hawthorn 1971
37. Fitzroy 1898
38. Carlton 1906
39. Collingwood 1902
40. South Melbourne 1909
41. South Melbourne 1918
42. Essendon 1984
43. Richmond 1967
44. West Coast 1994
45. North Melbourne 1996
46. Hawthorn 2013
47. Geelong 2009
48. Brisbane 2002
49. Richmond 1932
50. Collingwood 1930
51. Hawthorn 2014
52. Melbourne 1957
53. Melbourne 1964
54. Essendon 1946
55. Geelong 1951
56. Collingwood 1936
57. Geelong 1931
58. Collingwood 1903
59. Carlton 1914
60. Collingwood 1919
61. Carlton 1915
62. Hawthorn 2008
63. Brisbane 2001
64. Richmond 1980
65. Carlton 1981
66. Carlton 1972
67. Essendon 1949
68. Carlton 1982
69. Geelong 1963
70. Hawthorn 1961
71. Hawthorn 1983
72. Carlton 1987
73. Richmond 1934
74. Brisbane 2003
75. Richmond 2020
76. Richmond 1969
77. Melbourne 1939
78. St.Kilda 1966
79. Collingwood 1953
80. Carlton 1968
81. Hawthorn 1991
82. Sydney 2012
83. Richmond 2017
84. Collingwood 2023
85. Carlton 1947
86. Richmond 2019
87. Brisbane Lions 2024
88. Richmond 1920
89. Essendon 1923
90. West Coast 2018
91. Essendon 1942
92. Melbourne 1926
93. Richmond 1973
94. Essendon 1965
95. West Coast 2006
96. Melbourne 1941
97. Fitzroy 1905
98. Fitzroy 1944
99. Carlton 1970
100. Carlton 1938
101. Richmond 1943
102. Collingwood 1935
103. Collingwood 1990
104. Collingwood 1958
105. Essendon 1924
106. Melbourne 1940
107. Hawthorn 1978
108. North Melbourne 1975
109. Hawthorn 1976
110. Western Bulldogs 2016
111. North Melbourne 1977
112. Essendon 1993
113. Collingwood 1910
114. Essendon 1897
115. Adelaide 1998
116. Fitzroy 1904
117. Fitzroy 1922
118. Adelaide 1997 (like any flag side they were good, but there were many better)
119. Sydney 2005 (workmanlike, needed everything to go right)
120. Essendon 1912 (stole it off South Melbourne)
121. Melbourne 1948 (stole if off Essendon)
122. Carlton 1945 (percentage of only 106% and came from 4th, as war ended.)
123. Footscray 1954 (a modest win-loss record in a very even year)
124. Kangaroos 1999 (Worst defence of the top-10 teams. Percentage of 115%)
125. Richmond 1921 (stole it off Carlton)
126. Collingwood 1917 (war years)
127. Melbourne 1900 (came from 6th and helped by finals system)
128. Fitzroy 1916 (war years. Won wooden spoon and flag)
Click to expand...
Absolute rubbish
 
Meteoric Rise said:
By that reasoning the team who wins the most home & away games each year must win the flag & prove to be the best team each year. Only, that is not necessarily the case, is it? So it is abundantly clear and proven in most seasons that who wins the most home & away games is not a safe delineator of which of any set of teams is best.
Click to expand...
But surely teams that win the most games during the home and away season AND have dominant finals series (of which there have been many throughout the history of the game) should be rated above teams that satisfy only one of the two aforementioned criteria?

And just out of interest, as I'm not sure whether this question has been posed to you yet, where would you rank the Richmond 2017, 19 and 20 teams?
 
Fadge said:
But surely teams that win the most games during the home and away season AND have dominant finals series (of which there have been many throughout the history of the game) should be rated above teams that satisfy only one of the two aforementioned criteria?

And just out of interest, as I'm not sure whether this question has been posed to you yet, where would you rank the Richmond 2017, 19 and 20 teams?
Click to expand...
This goes against your assertion that Dustin Martin's dominant finals performances are not much better than home and away performances.
 

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The rankings (from best to worst) of the 128 VFL/AFL premiership teams.

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