The Review

Who will leave as a result of the review?


  • Total voters
    98
  • Poll closed .

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Whilst his sentiment is correct it is not 1999 anymore and players can be in contact with the club anywhere in the world.

Ryan Burton was on holidays overseas when Hawthron told him out of the blue he was to be traded to Port as part of the Wingard trade.

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Don't tell Port that, KT was in Chyna last week and media/fans were asking for comment on their going ons - apparently his mobile isn't set up for international travel and he couldn't be contacted.
 
Don't tell Port that, KT was in Chyna last week and media/fans were asking for comment on their going ons - apparently his mobile isn't set up for international travel and he couldn't be contacted.
God there's some nuffies running footy clubs in this state.
 
The stink from Tippettgate still lingers, at a time when absolute transparency was a non-negotiable, we again got treated like mushrooms in the dark and fed BS. Still to this day I'm waiting on the club to explain the Tippettgate scandal fully and thoroughly, just like Trigg said he would. He didn't and the club didn't, hiding behind the threat of a potential lawsuit. This was strike two for Trigg who demanded a second chance, but as we all know, the club backed him in, as they always do. Rendell didn't get a second chance, but we're told by those I have zero trust in that his situation was different. What horse crap, of course it was different, Rendell didn't do nearly as much damage to the clubb as Trigg.

In fact, the whole "backing people in" seems to be a Chapman thing, one thing that really irks me from this week's interviews was listening to Chapman be confronted with exactly that term and he said that you always back the people in. All I could think was that the club knowingly misleads its supporters even in the face of supporters absolutely rotten at the club for misleading them. It's the same stupid attitude that kept Trigg around, you want to appease a supporter base that let you take a squad that should have made a Grand Final and probably won a premiership from last decade and mess that up because you refused to acknowledge your boy Neil Craig was never capable of coaching a team to an AFL premiership, to then show how arrogant you really are with the Tippett debacle and then you make almost zero changes to the club while trotting out a bunch of excuses, you are walking a tight line and the fans will no longer sit idly by.

This has frustrated me for some time and I still haven't fully expressed how f*ckin furious I am at this club's arrogance and leadership failures. The club HAD to sack Trigg and Chapman is the cancer that still remains which couldn't do the right thing when it was needed. Hearing their BS that only Trigg was capable of doing the Adelaide Oval move was a massive load of crap, they will say anything to us to get away with doing things their way instead of doing things the right way. So they sacrificed Sanderson as a way to appease very angry fans as if it was Sanderson's fault the club got itself into the sh*tty position it did, all while Trigg arrogantly referred to passionate fans demanding what the hell is going on as "agitators". What a piece of sh*t and Chapman stood behind him. I'm not saying Sanderson shouldn't have been moved on, what I'm saying is the reason he was moved on was because it was beneficial for those in the club to justify keeping their jobs when they also should have been moved on, it was the whole "look, we're making the tough decisions for the club by getting rid of the senior coach, we are clearly the best for the job and you agitators need to shut up and back us in without question". Truth is Sanderson was a scapegoat who was only sacked because of us "agitators", the club would have backed him in if things weren't so bad for the club at that time, I genuinely believe that, but maybe I'm wrong, however, the club has given me zero reason to think otherwise.

So I though "fine", I'll sit by and suffer the club's BS, however, the club better give me a premiership before the decade is out, that was my deal. I was stupid, to think the same mob that refused to take accountability for their actions would be able to actually deliver a premiership was me foolishly giving the club the benefit of the doubt. Well, no more, they've used up every bit of currency they had and then some. The reason so many fans are so aggressively angry towards them is because those running the club are still trying to cover their rear ends rather than take accountability. The only reason we got rid of Trigg is because Trigg left on his own terms, probably organised behind the scenes with his mate Chapman and his mates on the board, yet again giving the middle finger to fans, but boy was it a relief when he was out the door, even though the club failed to sack him earlier on when it was really needed. At the time it gave me something to hope for even though I knew they had dealt with Trigg in a selfish and intentionally unaccountable way, it was their way of telling the fans to shut up and deal with the fact the club will run itself the way it chooses, no matter how many failures they have and how much they damage the club's brand, because they don't report to us, we can't replace them.

The only reason we're having this review is the club couldn't get away with not having one. They tried so hard not to have an external review, yet again giving the middle finger to the fans. Shut up and back in the failed personal that the club refuse to move on is the message we're being told lout and clear. Being called customers and agitators and being told to barrack for another club isn't the club slipping up, it's clearly their attitude and the same people are there and won't leave until they decide to leave and we can't do a damn thing about it and it's making me really, really angry. I don't think I'll ever be cool with this club again until everyone that is there has moved on (I can't say "be moved on" because the club won't do it, they couldn't even move on Trigg who HAD to be moved on for the integrity of the club). Chapman is a cancer that won't leave, we have to suffer him until the day he decides to go, he shouldn't get to leave on his own terms, he is a failure and a message needs to be sent loud can clear "enough is enough". But us fans don't have that power and now you all know why you don't have that power, it's because they don't want you to have that power, they want to hoard the power to protect themselves.

An external review at the end of the season which will mainly only have the reviewers interact with non-players and won't see how the club actually runs during a football season is either another calculated decision by the club to simultaneously dismiss the fans concerns and to protect themselves, or it's just another massive failure of a club so out of touch with reality they continue to think doing things the wrong way is a-ok all because it was them that made the decision and they are deluded with thinking that they always make the correct decisions. I wouldn't be surprised if those in charge aren't already closing ranks to mislead the external review so that very little will change. There will be scapegoats, but it won't be those who need to be sacked. I could be flat out wrong, but when the club continue to feed me BS, lie and misinform me on purpose, how could I possibly trust this club to do the right thing now?

When I hear rumours that the club massively screwed up the 2018 preseason and did irreversible damage to our chances, and then after a bunch of players expressed serious concerns to the club to which the club gave them lip service but no action AND THEN come the bye this year players again complained about promises being broken only for Fagan and Champman to take the word of the coaches over the players all while the coaches pleaded for the players to fall into line despite being lied to with promises broken, I believe those rumours because the club doesn't tell me sh*t except that everything is great. So I'm forced to lean on unfounded rumours because I have more of chance of getting an insight as to what is going wrong at the club than anything the club is willing to say publicly.

I'm sick of this club lying and misleading me, I'm sick of the constant cover up of failures, I'm sick of the club only ever acting when they have NO other choice instead of actually listening to the fans who were demanding action months ago. The club has no right to whinge about people claiming they're a boy's club and that they put profits before success, this is typical of flawed leaders looking for distractions from them actually taking accountability. They've already screwed the external review up and part me thinks they did it on purpose so they could control it. As long as this club continues to play their games being secretive and misleading/lying to fans, I won't trust anything they do. That's where I'm at, every action this club makes I'm seriously suspicious of and it's their own damn fault. Note that we didn't hear a thing from Fagan after the weekend until Roo harmed their membership and profit line with his comments, then we get Fagan in an interview straight off the plane... So the fan's anger wasn't enough, it was when the profits and membership were threatened. Yet more proof what the leaders of this club actually care about. Nothing will change, there will be some scapegoats that just so happen to be not anyone of high importance and we will be told that the necessary changes have been made and we will yet again move forward with the wrong people because we have no power to hold this mob to account.

Full voting rights for members in 2028? Yeah, I'll believe it when it happens, but as it stands now, I'm getting ready to write the whole next decade off for the AFC because the stink once again has been covered up with air freshener instead of the club finding the source and getting rid of it.

Despite the length of my rant, I still haven't fully aired all my grievances and anger. This is a club which is 100% uninterested in appeasing its most passionate fans because they have so many fans that will continue to enable them, this is why we are ignored, treated like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed BS. They don't respect us or they aren't good enough leaders to think respecting their fans is something that they need to bother with.

I hope everyone enjoys the external review, because I have zero trust in this club, I'm convinced the external review is more to distract upset fans instead of actually fixing the problem and as usual the club has given me zero reason to have faith or to trust them. Maybe they'll surprise me and do what is needed, but let's be honest, we've seen what this club is all about and surely most of you have to think in the back of your mind that this review will be used as an excuse to protect those at the club instead of actually holding people to account. There will be a couple of scapegoats and then the club will use this review as currency to justify why certain people kept their job. If the club wants to stop BSing me and start being honest, I'm willing to stop thinking the worst of them, but until that happens, I will always be closer to the truth about what is going on in this club by thinking the least of them instead of having faith in them and it is the club that put itself in that situation, not me. Take a broom to the lot of them, they failed to convince me they've taken proper accountability for Tippettgate and have proven that something does stink at the club and they are more interested in hiding the stink instead of fixing it because it might mean they are the ones who are the source of the stink.

Fantastic post!

Before I start, i widely admit I made the mistake of at times being sucked into the AFC propaganda so to some this may seem hypocritical of me.

Time has proven that there is definitely a cancer within the walls at the AFC and one person is the common denominator. Chapman. Before Chapman had been elected Chairman we had a run of 3 preliminary finals in 6 seasons and a pretty strong on field culture. Sure we didn't make a grand final but up until 2008 I would have said we were doing well with our on field performances and our culture and leadership was really strong. Generational change will always happen at any club so Chapman cant overly be held to account for list changes. But questions have to now be seriously asked about the culture of West Lakes on the playing group throughout the last 10 seasons more so as a preventative measure to protect the future generations of players. The football department overall receives a D for the last decade. 2015, 2016 and 2017 was an anomaly that hid a poor culture. The loss of Dangerfield, Tippett, Bock, Cameron, Lever, Davis, Gunston and McGovern needs to be closely examined and I do think it would be good if part of the review is they are interviewed. Tippettgate was a disaster and everyone involved should have been moved on immediately. Everything that ultimately happened that was bad at AFC all fell under Chapmans watch. Either he was being lead astray by people he trusted or he was incompetent. I think he was incompetent. His constant backing in of people created a culture of mediocrity, half arse mangement and a complete lack of carefactor over player welfare. Im not going to sit here and bag people like Burton, Riccuito or even Fagen. For all I know, they are doing a great job but the culture at the top stifles everything they are trying to do. Its difficult to change whats perceived not to be broken in the face of 3 years of reasonable success. Now after 2 years of exposure that somethings wrong and players wanting out put the club in a position it can no longer hide behind. I do think this is why Chapmans leaving, he is leaving before he is pushed out.
 

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God there's some nuffies running footy clubs in this state.

Was weird last week listening to the radio and they would say "We have tried to get hold of KT for a chat but we've been told he is in Chyna".

I was like hello, he would have access to a phone, its not the 60's where you have to book a line for an overseas phone call.
 
Don't tell Port that, KT was in Chyna last week and media/fans were asking for comment on their going ons - apparently his mobile isn't set up for international travel and he couldn't be contacted.
International roaming is expensive.....

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I would love it if this were not the case, but just look at the facts.

We all wanted a review last year after the camp and soft tissue fiascos saw us plummet from a GF to 12th.

Club says no.

"We will review ourselves".

Review findings: Everyone doing a great job, just a bit of bad luck.

This year again we want an external review after turning into a complete heartless rabble after the bye.

Club says it's "insulted because we're still a chance at finals".

We miss finals and finish 11th again.

Club (grudgingly) says ok, we'll give you your "externally led review".

Richmond's review ran for 10 weeks and was run by Ernst and Young beginning mid-season so they could, you know, review the day to day running of the football department.

Collingwood also launched their review in June and reviewed football department operations through the season so the club could shop for new staff before the market closed.

Adelaide cobbles together its review after the season is finished.

On Monday, Fagan said he expects it finished in 3 weeks. The panel still hasn't been secured by Thursday. Hopefully they can start by Monday. Another week lost.

So our 'review' will run for 2 weeks if we're lucky. Neither of those weeks will be during the season. In fact most of the club will be on leave. So they can't review any operations.

And any findings will be measured against our own parallel in-house review, which will no doubt have primacy.

And even if we need new staff (we do), the market is all but closed this late in the day.

This is absolutely a sham review. Too late, too short, too cobbled together at the last minute by a reluctant and arrogant regime who think they can just fob it off on us.

Send this to onair@fiveaa.com.au - attention Malcolm Blight.
 
Was anyone actually held responsible for the CM fiasco? That stupid s**t quite literally shunted two full seasons (maybe more to come) into a deep, dark void.

The ramifications of that camp could run even deeper if the club is forced to clear out all of the players who have been completely f’ed in the head and scarred for life and rebuild from scratch with mentally fresh players waiting to be f’ed in the head again by some new shenanigans that I'm sure Brett Burton will come up with.

Yes, we promoted Brett Burton.
 
The post below is huge, and feels like it is tl;dr - but it is a fantastic summation of where we are at, and mirrors exactly how I feel.

The stink from Tippettgate still lingers, at a time when absolute transparency was a non-negotiable, we again got treated like mushrooms in the dark and fed BS. Still to this day I'm waiting on the club to explain the Tippettgate scandal fully and thoroughly, just like Trigg said he would. He didn't and the club didn't, hiding behind the threat of a potential lawsuit. This was strike two for Trigg who demanded a second chance, but as we all know, the club backed him in, as they always do. Rendell didn't get a second chance, but we're told by those I have zero trust in that his situation was different. What horse crap, of course it was different, Rendell didn't do nearly as much damage to the clubb as Trigg.

In fact, the whole "backing people in" seems to be a Chapman thing, one thing that really irks me from this week's interviews was listening to Chapman be confronted with exactly that term and he said that you always back the people in. All I could think was that the club knowingly misleads its supporters even in the face of supporters absolutely rotten at the club for misleading them. It's the same stupid attitude that kept Trigg around, you want to appease a supporter base that let you take a squad that should have made a Grand Final and probably won a premiership from last decade and mess that up because you refused to acknowledge your boy Neil Craig was never capable of coaching a team to an AFL premiership, to then show how arrogant you really are with the Tippett debacle and then you make almost zero changes to the club while trotting out a bunch of excuses, you are walking a tight line and the fans will no longer sit idly by.

This has frustrated me for some time and I still haven't fully expressed how f*ckin furious I am at this club's arrogance and leadership failures. The club HAD to sack Trigg and Chapman is the cancer that still remains which couldn't do the right thing when it was needed. Hearing their BS that only Trigg was capable of doing the Adelaide Oval move was a massive load of crap, they will say anything to us to get away with doing things their way instead of doing things the right way. So they sacrificed Sanderson as a way to appease very angry fans as if it was Sanderson's fault the club got itself into the sh*tty position it did, all while Trigg arrogantly referred to passionate fans demanding what the hell is going on as "agitators". What a piece of sh*t and Chapman stood behind him. I'm not saying Sanderson shouldn't have been moved on, what I'm saying is the reason he was moved on was because it was beneficial for those in the club to justify keeping their jobs when they also should have been moved on, it was the whole "look, we're making the tough decisions for the club by getting rid of the senior coach, we are clearly the best for the job and you agitators need to shut up and back us in without question". Truth is Sanderson was a scapegoat who was only sacked because of us "agitators", the club would have backed him in if things weren't so bad for the club at that time, I genuinely believe that, but maybe I'm wrong, however, the club has given me zero reason to think otherwise.

So I though "fine", I'll sit by and suffer the club's BS, however, the club better give me a premiership before the decade is out, that was my deal. I was stupid, to think the same mob that refused to take accountability for their actions would be able to actually deliver a premiership was me foolishly giving the club the benefit of the doubt. Well, no more, they've used up every bit of currency they had and then some. The reason so many fans are so aggressively angry towards them is because those running the club are still trying to cover their rear ends rather than take accountability. The only reason we got rid of Trigg is because Trigg left on his own terms, probably organised behind the scenes with his mate Chapman and his mates on the board, yet again giving the middle finger to fans, but boy was it a relief when he was out the door, even though the club failed to sack him earlier on when it was really needed. At the time it gave me something to hope for even though I knew they had dealt with Trigg in a selfish and intentionally unaccountable way, it was their way of telling the fans to shut up and deal with the fact the club will run itself the way it chooses, no matter how many failures they have and how much they damage the club's brand, because they don't report to us, we can't replace them.

The only reason we're having this review is the club couldn't get away with not having one. They tried so hard not to have an external review, yet again giving the middle finger to the fans. Shut up and back in the failed personal that the club refuse to move on is the message we're being told lout and clear. Being called customers and agitators and being told to barrack for another club isn't the club slipping up, it's clearly their attitude and the same people are there and won't leave until they decide to leave and we can't do a damn thing about it and it's making me really, really angry. I don't think I'll ever be cool with this club again until everyone that is there has moved on (I can't say "be moved on" because the club won't do it, they couldn't even move on Trigg who HAD to be moved on for the integrity of the club). Chapman is a cancer that won't leave, we have to suffer him until the day he decides to go, he shouldn't get to leave on his own terms, he is a failure and a message needs to be sent loud can clear "enough is enough". But us fans don't have that power and now you all know why you don't have that power, it's because they don't want you to have that power, they want to hoard the power to protect themselves.

An external review at the end of the season which will mainly only have the reviewers interact with non-players and won't see how the club actually runs during a football season is either another calculated decision by the club to simultaneously dismiss the fans concerns and to protect themselves, or it's just another massive failure of a club so out of touch with reality they continue to think doing things the wrong way is a-ok all because it was them that made the decision and they are deluded with thinking that they always make the correct decisions. I wouldn't be surprised if those in charge aren't already closing ranks to mislead the external review so that very little will change. There will be scapegoats, but it won't be those who need to be sacked. I could be flat out wrong, but when the club continue to feed me BS, lie and misinform me on purpose, how could I possibly trust this club to do the right thing now?

When I hear rumours that the club massively screwed up the 2018 preseason and did irreversible damage to our chances, and then after a bunch of players expressed serious concerns to the club to which the club gave them lip service but no action AND THEN come the bye this year players again complained about promises being broken only for Fagan and Champman to take the word of the coaches over the players all while the coaches pleaded for the players to fall into line despite being lied to with promises broken, I believe those rumours because the club doesn't tell me sh*t except that everything is great. So I'm forced to lean on unfounded rumours because I have more of chance of getting an insight as to what is going wrong at the club than anything the club is willing to say publicly.

I'm sick of this club lying and misleading me, I'm sick of the constant cover up of failures, I'm sick of the club only ever acting when they have NO other choice instead of actually listening to the fans who were demanding action months ago. The club has no right to whinge about people claiming they're a boy's club and that they put profits before success, this is typical of flawed leaders looking for distractions from them actually taking accountability. They've already screwed the external review up and part me thinks they did it on purpose so they could control it. As long as this club continues to play their games being secretive and misleading/lying to fans, I won't trust anything they do. That's where I'm at, every action this club makes I'm seriously suspicious of and it's their own damn fault. Note that we didn't hear a thing from Fagan after the weekend until Roo harmed their membership and profit line with his comments, then we get Fagan in an interview straight off the plane... So the fan's anger wasn't enough, it was when the profits and membership were threatened. Yet more proof what the leaders of this club actually care about. Nothing will change, there will be some scapegoats that just so happen to be not anyone of high importance and we will be told that the necessary changes have been made and we will yet again move forward with the wrong people because we have no power to hold this mob to account.

Full voting rights for members in 2028? Yeah, I'll believe it when it happens, but as it stands now, I'm getting ready to write the whole next decade off for the AFC because the stink once again has been covered up with air freshener instead of the club finding the source and getting rid of it.

Despite the length of my rant, I still haven't fully aired all my grievances and anger. This is a club which is 100% uninterested in appeasing its most passionate fans because they have so many fans that will continue to enable them, this is why we are ignored, treated like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed BS. They don't respect us or they aren't good enough leaders to think respecting their fans is something that they need to bother with.

I hope everyone enjoys the external review, because I have zero trust in this club, I'm convinced the external review is more to distract upset fans instead of actually fixing the problem and as usual the club has given me zero reason to have faith or to trust them. Maybe they'll surprise me and do what is needed, but let's be honest, we've seen what this club is all about and surely most of you have to think in the back of your mind that this review will be used as an excuse to protect those at the club instead of actually holding people to account. There will be a couple of scapegoats and then the club will use this review as currency to justify why certain people kept their job. If the club wants to stop BSing me and start being honest, I'm willing to stop thinking the worst of them, but until that happens, I will always be closer to the truth about what is going on in this club by thinking the least of them instead of having faith in them and it is the club that put itself in that situation, not me. Take a broom to the lot of them, they failed to convince me they've taken proper accountability for Tippettgate and have proven that something does stink at the club and they are more interested in hiding the stink instead of fixing it because it might mean they are the ones who are the source of the stink.

He backs people in because he knows he is incompetent, and shouldn't be there. If they had quality people, they wouldn't need to 'back them in' - because they wouldn't be incompetent to start with, and they'd be unlikely to put up with those who are.
 
A lot of it comes down to the former players thinking they have a "unique" connection with the club that makes them automatically, easily and only the best candidates to run the club. No one else loves the Crows like they do, no one else has put as much effort into the club as they have, so how could anyone think they're bad at their jobs? Nobody outside is going to have that same connection that they do and THAT is what they think makes them think they're doing a good job. It's why they take every negative thing as a personal attack, they are the club, so an attack on one is automatically an attack on the other.

It shows with how quickly some outsiders get put off-side when they don't conform to the "Crow" way. I imagine it's just one huge clique and any outsider is going to feel uncomfortable in that situation. I had hopes Roo had seen that when he came aboard and appointed Walsh who seemed to want to cut through all that BS. Unfortunately I don't think they had the energy for a second effort and have slipped back into the comfortable position.
 

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If the review is half hearted, the club will be under immense scrutiny for the rest of this year and next. It will become unbearable if the same results keep coming. The supporters and media have been woken from their slumber. They will keep gunning for this group and it certainly won't be pleasant. Change is coming whether this rabble manages to hang on or not. They can be certain of that.
 
A lot of it comes down to the former players thinking they have a "unique" connection with the club that makes them automatically, easily and only the best candidates to run the club. No one else loves the Crows like they do, no one else has put as much effort into the club as they have, so how could anyone think they're bad at their jobs? Nobody outside is going to have that same connection that they do and THAT is what they think makes them think they're doing a good job. It's why they take every negative thing as a personal attack, they are the club, so an attack on one is automatically an attack on the other.

It shows with how quickly some outsiders get put off-side when they don't conform to the "Crow" way. I imagine it's just one huge clique and any outsider is going to feel uncomfortable in that situation. I had hopes Roo had seen that when he came aboard and appointed Walsh who seemed to want to cut through all that BS. Unfortunately I don't think they had the energy for a second effort and have slipped back into the comfortable position.

Your probably right about former players believing their right of entry

But if you look at the history of footy clubs whether it be victor Harbor, Hackham or Gawler or even Port or norwood

Generally 99% of the time its past players run the club and continually go back to help because its all volunteer work

Its the culture of football, Im sure others on here have played at these types of clubs and seen the old guys that played at the club cooking the BBQ or working behind the bar or on the committee, whether they were the worst player or the best, its more a sense of loyaity and love of the club

I suppose AFL clubs have a cross over of this but are professional sports but still want to have that Footy Culture which grass roots have, but I think that footy culture doesn't seem to have a place in Professional footy clubs which are now big business
 
If the review is half hearted, the club will be under immense scrutiny for the rest of this year and next. It will become unbearable if the same results keep coming. The supporters and media have been woken from their slumber. They will keep gunning for this group and it certainly won't be pleasant. Change is coming whether this rabble manages to hang on or not. They can be certain of that.

I dont think the review will be half hearted,

I also dont think any recomendations or findings will be released though, except the ones they want to or have to announce because people are leaving
 
How can Fagan be involved in an external review?
How in satan's name can this be so hard for us to do?

If we are actually brutally reshaping the club - then great - external people can point at all the "heavy-weights" that are the centre of the issues and tell those in charge why they need to go, but who are they reporting this to? The same people they are reviewing? The same people that should already know what has gone wrong but are trying to push it onto someone else's plate?

Now if we include some of the said people that are being reviewed, in the actual reviewing process ... then they can review themselves and report to themselves before ultimately holding back in the reporting phase so they don't upset themselves with the bad news.

It's like a Monty Python skit.
 
They said he was on the panel.

Can’t be right given he should be reviewed, but nothing surprises me with this basket case.
You would think the Idiot would be on top of things already and not have to go through a review to find out what has been going on at the club he is the CEO on. What the hell is going on here? Maybe that could be the no.1 question, the review can focus on, why the f*** don't you know what is happening at your club?
 
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