The war against renewable energy

Remove this Banner Ad

nut said:
Tesla building fast chargers now for trucks.

If Norwegian Ferries can charge 5MW in 5 minutes I don’t think there will be a future for swap batteries..

Where smart ferry charging begins with a smart grid

NORWAY: The Hareid-Sulesund ferry operations have reduced CO2 emissions by 7000 tonnes annually with the introduction of electric vessels. In transitioning ferries from diesel to pure electric power, powerful onshore support is essential, in the form of reliable infrastructure for rapid charging...
www.danfoss.com
Click to expand...

Electric trucks will come, they won't be Teslas.

Ferry Terminals are a few fixed place where they can have a high energy infrastructure.
Truck's your talking national grid.
Some of the towns don't have enough electricity capacity for charging a truck that fast.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Now they are buying this.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-a...00-pct-hydrogen-capable-turbines-for-whyalla/

If they actually run it on Hydrogen, i'd suggest that S.A. will remain the power price king.
It doesn't seem to say whether its open cycle or closed cycle, kind of important because closed cycle are a lot more efficient and not just a jet engine in a sturdy frame.
Click to expand...

Whyalla hydrogen power facility

www.hydrogenpowersa.sa.gov.au www.hydrogenpowersa.sa.gov.au

The Government of South Australia has committed more than half a billion dollars to the Hydrogen Jobs Plan to build a world leading hydrogen power plant, electrolyser and storage facility near Whyalla.

The Whyalla hydrogen power plant facility is separate to the Port Bonython Hydrogen Hub, which is located near Stony Point. Learn more about the Hub and the private developers involved in this project.

The 200MW renewable hydrogen power plant will be a new source of flexible power, providing additional grid stability for homes and businesses around the state by using excess renewable energy generated from large-scale wind and solar farms to provide a consistent output of supply.

Construction of the new facility is scheduled to begin early 2025, with the plant scheduled to begin operating in 2026.

​

The project includes:

  • 250MWe of electrolysers (some of the world's largest)
  • 200MW of power generation
  • 100t renewable hydrogen storage facility.
Click to expand...


Also, out of interest, anyone have any idea why these price spikes occurred during high solar production and seemingly stable supply?

1733396800882.png
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Last edited:
SaintsSeptember said:
Electric trucks will come, they won't be Teslas.
Click to expand...

But they are rolling out 1200kw chargers in the US.

SaintsSeptember said:
Ferry Terminals are a few fixed place where they can have a high energy infrastructure.
Truck's your talking national grid.
Some of the towns don't have enough electricity capacity for charging a truck that fast.
Click to expand...

You’ll need the same charging infrastructure for swapping batteries…. Each truck would have multiple batteries… for what reason?
EV trucks will have over 800km range and have Charging times well under an hour.
They’ll roll up to a charging station.. plug in and have a meal break. Compulsory rest breaks etc.
Long haul trucks can slow charge when the driver has his sleep breaks.
Charging times won’t be an issue.
 
nut said:
But they are rolling out 1200kw chargers in the US.



You’ll need the same charging infrastructure for swapping batteries…. Each truck would have multiple batteries… for what reason?
EV trucks will have over 800km range and have Charging times well under an hour.
They’ll roll up to a charging station.. plug in and have a meal break. Compulsory rest breaks etc.
Long haul trucks can slow charge when the driver has his sleep breaks.
Charging times won’t be an issue.
Click to expand...

Trying to charge 600kwh in an hour needs a lot more infrastructure than charging it over 4 hours or 8 hours.

The Tesla truck range is calculated for 35 Tons ( a tad over 30 Tonnes ), what Australian truck drivers would refer to as , "a little one ".
Meanwhile in the real world ( the one without Elon ) , this sort of thing is how its shaping up.
https://milence.com/insight/truck-charging-101/

Meanwhile in Sraya ....
It takes 28 hours to truck freight from Adelaide to Perth. ( i think including a sleep break ). Some of the roadhouses are off-grid.
Someone would need to be investing big-bucks in electricity infrastructure if these roadhouses were to be able to charge multiple trucks on a "fast charge " ( some of them have capacity to charge a few cars at 50kw ).

There are 3800 trucks on the Hume Each day.
If they all had to be charged each day its something like 2.3GW funnelled into a dozen or so roadhouses. 1.6GW hours of energy.

I think the likes of Coles delivery trucks will go electric, they are easier to manage than interstate transport, and companies like Coles would like to spruik how green they are.

I still think EV's are a red herring at the moment.
Trucks on a freeway are very efficient, and you don't get much benefit from regenerative braking etc if your out of the city. For example , a large efficient diesel generator produces less CO2/kw than a coal power station.

While our grid power supply is still a mess , this is where our focus should be.
Adding 1.6GW just for the Hume Highway ? Best build another Loy Yang then.

Would it be too stupid to put the horse before the cart for once?

( 50 tonne truck on the freeway uses around 50l/100km , Dodge Ram with one w***er and his lunch box , 20l/100km , most twin cab utes - 10-12 l/100km , hatchback 6 km/100km , Rav4 hybrid 5-6km/100km Yaris hybrid 3.3l /100km ).

petrol = 2.3kgCO2 per litre burnt. Diesel =2.5kgCO2 per litre.

Tesla, charged from the Victoria grid, 14kgCo2/100km. Yaris Hybrid 8kgCO2/100km.
Tesla , charged from the grid in S.A. 4kg CO2/100km. Charged at Nuts place , Free and Zero.
 
Last edited:
SaintsSeptember said:
Trying to charge 600kwh in an hour needs a lot more infrastructure than charging it over 4 hours or 8 hours.

The Tesla truck range is calculated for 35 Tons ( a tad over 30 Tonnes ), what Australian truck drivers would refer to as , "a little one ".
Meanwhile in the real world ( the one without Elon ) , this sort of thing is how its shaping up.
https://milence.com/insight/truck-charging-101/

Meanwhile in Sraya ....
It takes 28 hours to truck freight from Adelaide to Perth. ( i think including a sleep break ). Some of the roadhouses are off-grid.
Someone would need to be investing big-bucks in electricity infrastructure if these roadhouses were to be able to charge multiple trucks on a "fast charge " ( some of them have capacity to charge a few cars at 50kw ).

There are 3800 trucks on the Hume Each day.
If they all had to be charged each day its something like 2.3GW funnelled into a dozen or so roadhouses. 1.6GW hours of energy.

I think the likes of Coles delivery trucks will go electric, they are easier to manage than interstate transport, and companies like Coles would like to spruik how green they are.

I still think EV's are a red herring at the moment.
Trucks on a freeway are very efficient, and you don't get much benefit from regenerative braking etc if your out of the city. For example , a large efficient diesel generator produces less CO2/kw than a coal power station.

While our grid power supply is still a mess , this is where our focus should be.
Adding 1.6GW just for the Hume Highway ? Best build another Loy Yang then.

Would it be too stupid to put the horse before the cart for once?

( 50 tonne truck on the freeway uses around 50l/100km , Dodge Ram with one w***er and his lunch box , 20l/100km , most twin cab utes - 10-12 l/100km , hatchback 6 km/100km , Rav4 hybrid 5-6km/100km Yaris hybrid 3.3l /100km ).

petrol = 2.3kgCO2 per litre burnt. Diesel =2.5kgCO2 per litre.

Tesla, charged from the Victoria grid, 14kgCo2/100km. Yaris Hybrid 8kgCO2/100km.
Click to expand...

It won’t happen overnight… But have massive truck charging stations in strategic positions will happen.
I personally don’t think swapping batteries will be a long term strategy, considering the Dailey advancements in batteries and charging rates.
The Norwegian ferry example is proof of that.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
They don't price it per kw, they price it per kwh.
The little AA things in your car are the same as the ones in home batteries, are the same as the one in large scale "Big" batteries. Any difference in pricing is just a bulk discount.
Click to expand...

this is correct but the difference can be as you highlight bulk discount but this is a capex item

the real difference is the optimisation of control systems and replacements which result in high performance impacting revenues and opex
 
Interesting article discusses grid reliability and the fears of the 'lights going out' with renewables. It's a beat up by the folks who support fossil fuels and nuclear power.

reneweconomy.com.au

South Australia has the most wind and solar and no baseload: So why is it the only state not fretting about a vulnerable grid?

South Australia has the highest wind and solar share in Australia and no baseload power – and is the only state in the main grid not facing a shortfall of “system strength.”
reneweconomy.com.au reneweconomy.com.au

'But the work has already been done in South Australia – underlying why it is now regarded as one of the most secure and reliable grids in the country. Just like another renewable energy powerhouse Germany, where the reliability factor is at 99.997 per cent.

Grids that depend on wind and solar may be dealing with variable power supplies, but they are largely predictable. Sudden trips of large centralised generators are not predictable, and that – as AEMO has made clear on repeated occasions – is what it fears most.'
 
CD Xbow said:
Interesting article discusses grid reliability and the fears of the 'lights going out' with renewables. It's a beat up by the folks who support fossil fuels and nuclear power.

reneweconomy.com.au

South Australia has the most wind and solar and no baseload: So why is it the only state not fretting about a vulnerable grid?

South Australia has the highest wind and solar share in Australia and no baseload power – and is the only state in the main grid not facing a shortfall of “system strength.”
reneweconomy.com.au reneweconomy.com.au

'But the work has already been done in South Australia – underlying why it is now regarded as one of the most secure and reliable grids in the country. Just like another renewable energy powerhouse Germany, where the reliability factor is at 99.997 per cent.

Grids that depend on wind and solar may be dealing with variable power supplies, but they are largely predictable. Sudden trips of large centralised generators are not predictable, and that – as AEMO has made clear on repeated occasions – is what it fears most.'
Click to expand...

Even people on here, when presented with the facts, still can’t accept that renewables are way way way way more reliable, stabilise the grid and is cheaper than coal and gas, Murdoch media brainwashing at its finest.
Now how many times do nuclear power plants go offline???! Ask the French….

Decentralising the grid works… funny that.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

The list of anti- renewable Myths is a long one..

Cost- its way cheaper

Reliability- its way more reliable

EVs are too expensive- EVs are
now cheaper to buy and run

Battery degradation- not even a factor at 10% over 4000 cycles.

Grid can’t cope with EVs- this one is one of the funniest.

We need base load - another funny one.

Too many to list…
 
Power Raid said:
this is correct but the difference can be as you highlight bulk discount but this is a capex item

the real difference is the optimisation of control systems and replacements which result in high performance impacting revenues and opex
Click to expand...

I find it funny you didn’t reply to my maths.
The silence is deafening.
Are you still saying it’s 4O cents a KWH For battery storage.
 
CD Xbow said:
Interesting article discusses grid reliability and the fears of the 'lights going out' with renewables. It's a beat up by the folks who support fossil fuels and nuclear power.

reneweconomy.com.au

South Australia has the most wind and solar and no baseload: So why is it the only state not fretting about a vulnerable grid?

South Australia has the highest wind and solar share in Australia and no baseload power – and is the only state in the main grid not facing a shortfall of “system strength.”
reneweconomy.com.au reneweconomy.com.au

'But the work has already been done in South Australia – underlying why it is now regarded as one of the most secure and reliable grids in the country. Just like another renewable energy powerhouse Germany, where the reliability factor is at 99.997 per cent.

Grids that depend on wind and solar may be dealing with variable power supplies, but they are largely predictable. Sudden trips of large centralised generators are not predictable, and that – as AEMO has made clear on repeated occasions – is what it fears most.'
Click to expand...

The connection to Victoria is still a safety net, and they use it .
Meanwhile S.A. is investing in more gas generation, though it can run on green Hydrogen if they can somehow make the stuff cost effectively.

Germany also have a safety net, a direct connection to the French nuclear based grid. And they use it.

Victoria /NSW can only really lean on each other and neither has a huge amount of surplus capacity.

S.A.'s official grid value is 0.25KgCo2e/kwh
Victoria are on 0.85.
Germany are on 0.38
Ireland were on 0.28 during 2023. ( No Nuclear - But UK safety net )
Denmark 0.15 ( No Nuclear, no Hydro but links to UK, Germany and Sweden )
 
CD Xbow said:
Interesting article discusses grid reliability and the fears of the 'lights going out' with renewables. It's a beat up by the folks who support fossil fuels and nuclear power.

reneweconomy.com.au

South Australia has the most wind and solar and no baseload: So why is it the only state not fretting about a vulnerable grid?

South Australia has the highest wind and solar share in Australia and no baseload power – and is the only state in the main grid not facing a shortfall of “system strength.”
reneweconomy.com.au reneweconomy.com.au

'But the work has already been done in South Australia – underlying why it is now regarded as one of the most secure and reliable grids in the country. Just like another renewable energy powerhouse Germany, where the reliability factor is at 99.997 per cent.

Grids that depend on wind and solar may be dealing with variable power supplies, but they are largely predictable. Sudden trips of large centralised generators are not predictable, and that – as AEMO has made clear on repeated occasions – is what it fears most.'
Click to expand...

It says "No Baseload"

NEM data dashboard

The NEM's key data points including price and demand, dispatch, and short and medium-term outlooks.
aemo.com.au aemo.com.au
Go to Fuel Mix.
Click on S.A.
Get the 1 year result up.

See that aquamarine coloured bit that never goes down to zero? That's gas generated electricity.
That would be "baseload" no?
 
SaintsSeptember said:
It says "No Baseload"

NEM data dashboard

The NEM's key data points including price and demand, dispatch, and short and medium-term outlooks.
aemo.com.au aemo.com.au
Go to Fuel Mix.
Click on S.A.
Get the 1 year result up.

See that aquamarine coloured bit that never goes down to zero? That's gas generated electricity.
That would be "baseload" no?
Click to expand...

I think baseload is used to describe constant power that isn’t easily ramped up or down.
Gas can be turned on and off quickly… so can be used when needed.
So in SA … when renewables are pumping thy can turn gas completely off, hence they don’t need baseload.
 
Last edited:
SaintsSeptember said:
It says "No Baseload"

NEM data dashboard

The NEM's key data points including price and demand, dispatch, and short and medium-term outlooks.
aemo.com.au aemo.com.au
Go to Fuel Mix.
Click on S.A.
Get the 1 year result up.

See that aquamarine coloured bit that never goes down to zero? That's gas generated electricity.
That would be "baseload" no?
Click to expand...
See Nuts answer, as that is understanding.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Trying to charge 600kwh in an hour needs a lot more infrastructure than charging it over 4 hours or 8 hours.

The Tesla truck range is calculated for 35 Tons ( a tad over 30 Tonnes ), what Australian truck drivers would refer to as , "a little one ".
Meanwhile in the real world ( the one without Elon ) , this sort of thing is how its shaping up.
https://milence.com/insight/truck-charging-101/

Meanwhile in Sraya ....
It takes 28 hours to truck freight from Adelaide to Perth. ( i think including a sleep break ). Some of the roadhouses are off-grid.
Someone would need to be investing big-bucks in electricity infrastructure if these roadhouses were to be able to charge multiple trucks on a "fast charge " ( some of them have capacity to charge a few cars at 50kw ).

There are 3800 trucks on the Hume Each day.
If they all had to be charged each day its something like 2.3GW funnelled into a dozen or so roadhouses. 1.6GW hours of energy.

I think the likes of Coles delivery trucks will go electric, they are easier to manage than interstate transport, and companies like Coles would like to spruik how green they are.

I still think EV's are a red herring at the moment.
Trucks on a freeway are very efficient, and you don't get much benefit from regenerative braking etc if your out of the city. For example , a large efficient diesel generator produces less CO2/kw than a coal power station.

While our grid power supply is still a mess , this is where our focus should be.
Adding 1.6GW just for the Hume Highway ? Best build another Loy Yang then.

Would it be too stupid to put the horse before the cart for once?

( 50 tonne truck on the freeway uses around 50l/100km , Dodge Ram with one w***er and his lunch box , 20l/100km , most twin cab utes - 10-12 l/100km , hatchback 6 km/100km , Rav4 hybrid 5-6km/100km Yaris hybrid 3.3l /100km ).

petrol = 2.3kgCO2 per litre burnt. Diesel =2.5kgCO2 per litre.

Tesla, charged from the Victoria grid, 14kgCo2/100km. Yaris Hybrid 8kgCO2/100km.
Tesla , charged from the grid in S.A. 4kg CO2/100km. Charged at Nuts place , Free and Zero.
Click to expand...
Trucks in residential areas should be emissin free. They spend up to ten hours polluting probably the equivalent of 40 or ,50 cars doing 30mind per day max.
 
nut said:
I think baseload is used to describe constant power that isn’t easily ramped up or down.
Gas can be turned on and off quickly… so can be used when needed.
So in SA … when renewables are pumping thy can turn gas completely off, hence they don’t need baseload.
Click to expand...

OK, so what I've learned is that renewables only work when you include:

  • non renewable storage batteries
  • fossil fuel (gas) backup for when the renewables aren't producing enough
 

Remove this Banner Ad

The war against renewable energy

Similar threads

nut
The war against employment
Replies
4
Views
719
Freomaniac
Freomaniac
Gavin Excell
The disgrace that is the Senate
Replies
10
Views
660
Rob R
R
anchor man
Gina the politician.
Replies
8
Views
728
Festerz
Festerz
Bunk Moreland
The major parties versus social media
2
Replies
41
Views
1K
peetoo
peetoo
M
How the coalition can win the next Victorian election
2 3 4 5
Replies
124
Views
6K
peetoo
peetoo
anchor man
The Nightly
Replies
8
Views
824
anchor man
anchor man
nut
The Nuclear debate
30 31 32 33 34
Replies
835
Views
30K
nut
nut

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top