The war against renewable energy

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Batteries is just one form of storage

Of course, but the primary storage solution appears to be batteries.

I'm critical of the myth that sun and wind will solve all of our power issues. It's clear we need some form of storage that itself requires heavy industry and mining to produce.

Plus, we'll need some sort of fossil fuel backup as renewables by their very nature aren't reliable.

And heaven help us if their is a huge volcano like Mount Tambora which led to the "year without a summer". Imagine months with little solar production.

 

[nut]

EV battery packs to be $80US a kWh.

What would Goldman Sacha know???

Will the global average price of power batteries drop by nearly 50% by 2026? LFP market share is expected to increase - Shanghai Metal Market

Recently, a new report from Goldman Sachs showed that at the battery pack level, the global average battery price has dropped from $153/kWh in 2022 to $149/kWh in 2023.

www.metal.com

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

EV battery packs to be $80US a kWh.

What would Goldman Sacha know???

Will the global average price of power batteries drop by nearly 50% by 2026? LFP market share is expected to increase - Shanghai Metal Market

Recently, a new report from Goldman Sachs showed that at the battery pack level, the global average battery price has dropped from $153/kWh in 2022 to $149/kWh in 2023.

www.metal.com

Just remember the environmental footprint of those lithium batteries. In Chile's Salar de Atacama, mining operations consume around 21 million litres of water per day and use around 65% of the region’s water, leading to severe water shortages.

The Harmful Effects of our Lithium Batteries

In this article we’ll explore why lithium batteries come with their own heavy environmental cost, and why they’re not necessarily the environmentally friendly alternative we’ve been led to believe.

greenly.earth

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Trucks in residential areas should be emissin free. They spend up to ten hours polluting probably the equivalent of 40 or ,50 cars doing 30mind per day max.

I'd say they probably don't pollute the equivalent of 40 or 50 cars.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Just remember the environmental footprint of those lithium batteries. In Chile's Salar de Atacama, mining operations consume around 21 million litres of water per day and use around 65% of the region’s water, leading to severe water shortages.

The Harmful Effects of our Lithium Batteries

In this article we’ll explore why lithium batteries come with their own heavy environmental cost, and why they’re not necessarily the environmentally friendly alternative we’ve been led to believe.

greenly.earth

Probably the reason BYD is going down this path. At the moment they seem to be better suited to fixed storage than Automotive use.

Sodium-ion batteries set to spark renewable energy revolution – and Australia must be ready

A new way to firm up the world’s electricity grids is fast developing and could be a game-changer – enabling our grids to run on 100% renewables.

reneweconomy.com.au

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Probably the reason BYD is going down this path. At the moment they seem to be better suited to fixed storage than Automotive use.

Sodium-ion batteries set to spark renewable energy revolution – and Australia must be ready

A new way to firm up the world’s electricity grids is fast developing and could be a game-changer – enabling our grids to run on 100% renewables.

reneweconomy.com.au

Sodium ion is predicted to grow at 16% pa to a value of under 1 Billion USD by 2030. Lithium ion is predicted to grow by 25% pa to a value of 400 Billion USD by 2030.

Sodium ion looks like a 10+ year proposition to a problem (replace fossil fuel) that needs solving within 10 years.

 

[nut]

Probably the reason BYD is going down this path. At the moment they seem to be better suited to fixed storage than Automotive use.

Sodium-ion batteries set to spark renewable energy revolution – and Australia must be ready

A new way to firm up the world’s electricity grids is fast developing and could be a game-changer – enabling our grids to run on 100% renewables.

reneweconomy.com.au

That article suggests we don’t need any gas.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

That article suggests we don’t need any gas.

I wouldn't believe it too much. Reneweconomy is as biased towards renewables as Newscorp is as biased towards fossil fuels.

The truth will be somewhere in the middle.

 

[peetoo]

I'd say they probably don't pollute the equivalent of 40 or 50 cars.

Well the new emissions legislation won’t apply to trucks vans and Utes. The very vehicles which are on the road hours per day in residential areas.

We have it arse about face

This class of vehicle splits vehicle pollution 50-50 with private cars

 

[nut]

I wouldn't believe it too much. Reneweconomy is as biased towards renewables as Newscorp is as biased towards fossil fuels.

The truth will be somewhere in the middle.

So you don’t believe sodium batteries are cheaper and more suited to large scale batteries? And providing there is enough battery storage, there isn’t a need for fossil fuels?
Newscorp is complete rubbish.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Well the new emissions legislation won’t apply to trucks vans and Utes. The very vehicles which are on the road hours per day in residential areas.

We have it arse about face

This class of vehicle splits vehicle pollution 50-50 with private cars

Vans and utes are dreadful.
A truck rolling up the freeway is probably producing less CO2/kwh than a Coal Power station.

 

[peetoo]

Vans and utes are dreadful.
A truck rolling up the freeway is probably producing less CO2/kwh than a Coal Power station.

The discussion was trucks etc pollution in residential areas. The fact they go 8-10 hours per dat whereas cars is a fraction that individually

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

So you don’t believe sodium batteries are cheaper and more suited to large scale batteries? And providing there is enough battery storage, there isn’t a need for fossil fuels?
Newscorp is complete rubbish.

No I don't think we'll ever install a minimum 160GWh of batteries to make it possible to be cut off from fossil fuels. Realistically, you'd need 300GWh of batteries installed to cover off on risks from consecutive days where we don't generate enough renewable energy to recharge the batteries.

SA have 200MW, which is like 20MWh if it has to last 10 hours installed.

 

[nut]

you'd need 300GWh of batteries installed to cover off on risks from consecutive days where we don't generate enough renewable energy to recharge the batteries.

Source please ….

And you do realise solar still works when it’s cloudy.

Here’s what AEMO says….

Integrated System Plan (ISP) forecasts Australia will need at least 49GW of storage by 2050 in order to reach net zero. As mentioned, this storage capacity will include a mix of pumped hydro, virtual power plants and batteries, including home battery systems. AEMO also sees a significant role for coordinated consumer energy resources (CER) including home batteries. Home battery systems surpassed 250,000 by the end of 2023, accounting for more than 2700 MW hours of capacity. While this number may seem high, around 3.7 million Australian homes have rooftop solar units installed, meaning less than one in 14 households with solar units have home battery systems installed. To achieve the current ISP capacity of coordinated CER, storage will need to rise from today’s 0.2 GW to 3.7 GW in 2029-30 and increase tenfold to 37 GW in 2049-50. If achieved, it is projected it would account for up to 66 per cent of the NEM’s energy storage nameplate capacity.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Source please ….

And you do realise solar still works when it’s cloudy.

Here’s what AEMO says….

Integrated System Plan (ISP) forecasts Australia will need at least 49GW of storage by 2050 in order to reach net zero. As mentioned, this storage capacity will include a mix of pumped hydro, virtual power plants and batteries, including home battery systems. AEMO also sees a significant role for coordinated consumer energy resources (CER) including home batteries. Home battery systems surpassed 250,000 by the end of 2023, accounting for more than 2700 MW hours of capacity. While this number may seem high, around 3.7 million Australian homes have rooftop solar units installed, meaning less than one in 14 households with solar units have home battery systems installed. To achieve the current ISP capacity of coordinated CER, storage will need to rise from today’s 0.2 GW to 3.7 GW in 2029-30 and increase tenfold to 37 GW in 2049-50. If achieved, it is projected it would account for up to 66 per cent of the NEM’s energy storage nameplate capacity.

I don't think you'd get much solar on a drizzly day. If you think you never get two days like that in a row, come and visit Victoria one winter.

 

[nut]

I don't think you'd get much solar on a drizzly day. If you think you never get two days like that in a row, come and visit Victoria one winter.

Hence why they aren’t building many solar farms south of the great divide… …
But solar is just 1 thing in the mix…

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I hate seeing TV commercials for Natural Gas and how great it is for Australians blah blah.

For starters, the LPG market has meant that they've almost priced themselves out of the market.
Home use is horrendous ( right now Gas for heating in Victoria has less emissions than Coal based Electricity , but the price is horrendous ).
It should be good for riding the peaks and troughs of the renewable electricity market, but the market is avoiding in favor of using coal.

It is telling how they're selling it. They clearly see the end coming and are trying to hang on for as long as possible

 

[Festerz]

Day 7 of the multiple page pro-Dutton sponsorship series by Santos and the gas industry in the Murdoch rags..



'Time to be the adults in the room'. irony much?

The reality is that NewsCorp gas crisis hysteria series, paid for by the Gas industry, strangely fails to mention that these foreign owned corporates are exporting 80% of Australia's gas, choking domestic supply and price gouging Australian customers.

 

[peetoo]

Day 7 of the multiple page pro-Dutton sponsorship series by Santos and the gas industry in the Murdoch rags..

View attachment 2183789View attachment 2183790

'Time to be the adults in the room'. irony much?

The reality is that NewsCorp gas crisis hysteria series, paid for by the Gas industry, strangely fails to mention that these foreign owned corporates are exporting 80% of Australia's gas, choking domestic supply and price gouging Australian customers.

View attachment 2183805

Absolutely. Keep the gas, export more coal

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Source please ….

And you do realise solar still works when it’s cloudy.

Here’s what AEMO says….

Integrated System Plan (ISP) forecasts Australia will need at least 49GW of storage by 2050 in order to reach net zero. As mentioned, this storage capacity will include a mix of pumped hydro, virtual power plants and batteries, including home battery systems. AEMO also sees a significant role for coordinated consumer energy resources (CER) including home batteries. Home battery systems surpassed 250,000 by the end of 2023, accounting for more than 2700 MW hours of capacity. While this number may seem high, around 3.7 million Australian homes have rooftop solar units installed, meaning less than one in 14 households with solar units have home battery systems installed. To achieve the current ISP capacity of coordinated CER, storage will need to rise from today’s 0.2 GW to 3.7 GW in 2029-30 and increase tenfold to 37 GW in 2049-50. If achieved, it is projected it would account for up to 66 per cent of the NEM’s energy storage nameplate capacity.

Net zero is very different to a reliable grid that will prevent rolling blackouts.

You have to remember., fossil fuel provides about 14GW of power every hour. So 49GW of battery would last less than 4 hours if they were being relied upon. Then then have to be recharged.

 

[nut]

Net zero us very different to a reliable grid that will prevent rolling blackouts.

You have to remember., fossil fuel provides about 14GW of power every hour. So 49GW of battery would last less than 4 hours if they were being relied upon. Then then have to be recharged.

For those that a mentally challenged and can’t understand that there will be a mix …. It’s hard concept.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

For those that a mentally challenged and can’t understand that there will be a mix …. It’s hard concept.

At least I understand the difference between a GW and a GWh.

 

[nut]

At least I understand the difference between a GW and a GWh.

You clearly dont because you think usage demand is constant over a 24 hour period.

 

[Power Raid]

I find it funny you didn’t reply to my maths.
The silence is deafening.
Are you still saying it’s 4O cents a KWH For battery storage.

Yes I’m still saying $0.24 to $0.40 kwh

I note you didn’t actually answer the question put forward to you and thus didn’t bother debating on half facts

 

[Power Raid]

Source please ….

And you do realise solar still works when it’s cloudy.

Here’s what AEMO says….

Integrated System Plan (ISP) forecasts Australia will need at least 49GW of storage by 2050 in order to reach net zero. As mentioned, this storage capacity will include a mix of pumped hydro, virtual power plants and batteries, including home battery systems. AEMO also sees a significant role for coordinated consumer energy resources (CER) including home batteries. Home battery systems surpassed 250,000 by the end of 2023, accounting for more than 2700 MW hours of capacity. While this number may seem high, around 3.7 million Australian homes have rooftop solar units installed, meaning less than one in 14 households with solar units have home battery systems installed. To achieve the current ISP capacity of coordinated CER, storage will need to rise from today’s 0.2 GW to 3.7 GW in 2029-30 and increase tenfold to 37 GW in 2049-50. If achieved, it is projected it would account for up to 66 per cent of the NEM’s energy storage nameplate capacity.

So 60 to 120 minutes based on current demand and future demand in 2050

That sounds like grid stability rather than storage for meeting demand