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Opinion The Way Forward
- Thread starter Kiama Chris
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- Nov 11, 2012
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Never said that so no need to be smart about
He would certainly win the ball and help
But like you say the mid group definitely showed experience from 22 to 24
kickthething
Brownlow Medallist
need a big bodied mid on-top of all that
The King!
Chosen One
I think you need to try and learn from the best and have someone come in and observe the culture, meet everyone one on one, talk to the coaches, talk to the assistants. Talk to groups.
For starters what was this perfect prep they speak of in grand final week, what did they do? What did Brisbane do. From the outside we know for certain Brisbane changed the day they came down fromm 23 to 24. Maybe thats not the answer, but at least they did something.
They need an external voice to say this is great, this is complete crap, this is what other clubs are doing,
Get someone who was involved in multiple flags, Hawks 3 peat, Tigers 3, Lions 3, heck get someone from Penrith Panthers in or business world I dgaf. But do something that is clear, observable and transparent. Give the members some sort of report, stop being secretive. Stop the cagey shit around selection too all year. Don't give out all the secrets, but I would like to see more explanation around selection for instance and sub picks. Maybe others disagree, but I think the ducks and drakes we play around fitness and form is pointless.
I remember in 07 the cats started shit remember Bomber Thompson saying in public something like, There are players going through the motion who aren't showing me enough and they can just go, he was sick of it etc. The I remember Chapman I think it was saying this is the players fault and they were soft.
I think even back in our best years there been more honest accounts and less we need to be harder or we just dont know. We do know, you all played pathetic footy, just admit it.
We can get a bigger mid, or throw Adams /Mills in, get a better tall, etc etc but it wont solve fundamental flaws imo.
For starters what was this perfect prep they speak of in grand final week, what did they do? What did Brisbane do. From the outside we know for certain Brisbane changed the day they came down fromm 23 to 24. Maybe thats not the answer, but at least they did something.
They need an external voice to say this is great, this is complete crap, this is what other clubs are doing,
Get someone who was involved in multiple flags, Hawks 3 peat, Tigers 3, Lions 3, heck get someone from Penrith Panthers in or business world I dgaf. But do something that is clear, observable and transparent. Give the members some sort of report, stop being secretive. Stop the cagey shit around selection too all year. Don't give out all the secrets, but I would like to see more explanation around selection for instance and sub picks. Maybe others disagree, but I think the ducks and drakes we play around fitness and form is pointless.
I remember in 07 the cats started shit remember Bomber Thompson saying in public something like, There are players going through the motion who aren't showing me enough and they can just go, he was sick of it etc. The I remember Chapman I think it was saying this is the players fault and they were soft.
I think even back in our best years there been more honest accounts and less we need to be harder or we just dont know. We do know, you all played pathetic footy, just admit it.
We can get a bigger mid, or throw Adams /Mills in, get a better tall, etc etc but it wont solve fundamental flaws imo.
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We've never had a midfield of Heeney, fit Mills, and Rowbottom. So I'm not sure how you can say it definitely won't work.
Closest we got was Heeney attending half the centre bounces in Rd 1 2022, with Mills and Rowy the main mids. And hey, we beat the Giants in clearances. Admittedly Florent was also key in that strangely.
kickthething
Brownlow Medallist
The fundamental flawis structure that may be a result of not having a bigger mid
The King!
Chosen One
The big flaws are the patches where we don't even have head in the game, don't man up, don't get the ball.
we can't see player weights anymore but there's some decent size in there, not enough to be as uncompetitive as our worst performances are imo.
If you have Heeney, Rowbottom, Mills, Adams going through that's pretty decent fight wise.
This grand final wasn't the result of playing against a bigger midfield.
Dunkley is a bit taller, but Neale is small. We had solid lads in there too in Rowy and Heeney.
Parker was moved in there too late. A fit Mills in there again would help, and has bonus height.
Warner only showed up late (again). Move him to half forward with mid cameos.
Bring in a mature ager sure. I think this is the best we can do.
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- #359
First half we had a big mid named Grundy. Who was also rucking pretty well. Made Heeney et al very effective. When his form fell away it got much harder. It's not much more complicated than that.
Replicating what we had earlier is the difficult part. Mills? Probably, replacing Warner. Reduce Heeney's attendance so he lasts, use Warner? Give Sheldrick a block of games. Maybe Adams back into the team.
Probably most important is to reduce Grundy's ToG or manage his games to get him through to finals. Work on tactics.
Most of the pieces are there.
sataris
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The most sydney thing to do would be to have an external review done by someone like PWC.
PWC famous for saying whatever the **** you want as long as you pay for it.
- Oct 18, 2018
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I always wished Chapman was a Swan. Loved watching him play. Reminded me of The Doctor (Socrates) who captained the best Brazilian soccer team. They just passed the ball to him and he put his touch on it and it went on it's merry way. He almost always got the ball in every raid on an opponent. Chapman was similar in that he got the ball almost always as they went forward. Tough as.
I like the idea of 2 Heeney's. Definitely an improvement.
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Enter Cooper Hynes
Gettable?
RedBloodBlackSwan
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Maybe this goes in the thread of unpopular opinions, but I am not sure Grundy is the smartest footballer going around.
Sure he is smart and reflective off the field, but boy can he do some dumb things on it. And they are not when he doesn’t have time to think, they are often when he has more than enough time.
Maybe fatigue was a factor, but then have the smarts to ask for a break! I recall horse saying that Grundy said he didn’t need a break, which was just madness - we could all see it clear as day.
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Heeney & Petracca in the same team would be awesome
The King!
Chosen One
Longmire can heck off to the EPL then
Apologies in advance for the long post, but a few thoughts from me about the way forward.
If I were coach of the swans in 2025 there's a few things that are a must.
Firstly, as a group, we would have to acknowledge the fact we failed to turn up in the 2024 grand final. But then I'd offer the team a way forward in 2025.
First thing to address would be the challenge of backing up after a grand final belting. It's rare for a reason. A team that makes the grand final and gets belted tend to carry a sense of futility into the following year because they did everything they had to throughout the year and overall performed well, only to get embarrassed at the final stage. Looking ahead at all the hard work required the upcoming year with no guarantee they'll reach the stage they'll be able to atone for their failing last year (the GF), it will break some players psychologically. It will be a hill too high for some.
The way I would address it would be to bring the challenge of grand final retribution into the H&A season. Every game would present each player an opportunity to atone for the GF and prepare for the 2025 grand final.
The whole team would be expected to apply grand final-like pressure to their opponent. Each player would be asked to get as much mongrel into their game as is necessary not to get bullied by their opponent. Acts of courage, determination and desperation would be rewarded, and games where a player doesn't go hard enough, is outgrunted by their opponent or is bullied would come into question and would be subject to demotion (with instructions on what's required in the 2s to win their spot back).
For me, midfield spots are up for grabs at the start of the pre season, and those who are willing to go hardest to win the ball will be rewarded with a starting spot. The season would then present opportunities for those players to prove they're the hungriest mids in the team, and for other hungry mids currently out of the main group to displace them. Whenever the mid numbers are down or the opposition gets a hold of us. We reset for the next quarter and players or asked to perform to premiership quarter standard (turn up the pressure to maximum with the aim of breaking the opposition). The H&A season is an opportunity to identify which of our players can perform at the most challenging moments throughout the season, and they get first crack at the role at the pointy end.
Players who repeatedly fail these tests fall down the pecking order in favour of a "lesser" or younger player who is able to demonstrate they're able to cope with the pressure.
That's obviously only part of the equation, but that would be a starting point for me. With an approach like that it is important to be up front with the players from the start and get buy in. Acknowledge that we ARE facing an uphill battle just to get back into the position to atone for 2024, but that every step along the way will be in service of the goal of not only getting to the grand final, but grabbing it with both hands irrespective of who lines up against us.
Some players will not respond well to the approach, and that's a good thing, because that's a short cut to separating the wheat from the chaff. The players who are really committed to winning a premiership and those who already have a strong internal drive will welcome the opportunity to have everyone on the same page and battle-hardened by the time finals roll around. And those who don't have the work ethic to get on board are part of the problem.
I'm aware that applying premiership pressure isn't possible every quarter of every game, I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting it needs to be switched on in the 1st quarter, and we need to be able to switch it on if an opponent dominates, or starts pulling back a lead etc. We need to show that we have the killer instinct and we need to be able to turn it on when we need to. And most importantly, we need to figure out which players are capable of being part of that group.
If we have a significant lead, my instructions would be have fun, just make the right decisions and execute, and apply enough pressure not to allow our opponent back in the game. Otherwise, it's back to premiership-quarter mode.
If I were coach of the swans in 2025 there's a few things that are a must.
Firstly, as a group, we would have to acknowledge the fact we failed to turn up in the 2024 grand final. But then I'd offer the team a way forward in 2025.
First thing to address would be the challenge of backing up after a grand final belting. It's rare for a reason. A team that makes the grand final and gets belted tend to carry a sense of futility into the following year because they did everything they had to throughout the year and overall performed well, only to get embarrassed at the final stage. Looking ahead at all the hard work required the upcoming year with no guarantee they'll reach the stage they'll be able to atone for their failing last year (the GF), it will break some players psychologically. It will be a hill too high for some.
The way I would address it would be to bring the challenge of grand final retribution into the H&A season. Every game would present each player an opportunity to atone for the GF and prepare for the 2025 grand final.
The whole team would be expected to apply grand final-like pressure to their opponent. Each player would be asked to get as much mongrel into their game as is necessary not to get bullied by their opponent. Acts of courage, determination and desperation would be rewarded, and games where a player doesn't go hard enough, is outgrunted by their opponent or is bullied would come into question and would be subject to demotion (with instructions on what's required in the 2s to win their spot back).
For me, midfield spots are up for grabs at the start of the pre season, and those who are willing to go hardest to win the ball will be rewarded with a starting spot. The season would then present opportunities for those players to prove they're the hungriest mids in the team, and for other hungry mids currently out of the main group to displace them. Whenever the mid numbers are down or the opposition gets a hold of us. We reset for the next quarter and players or asked to perform to premiership quarter standard (turn up the pressure to maximum with the aim of breaking the opposition). The H&A season is an opportunity to identify which of our players can perform at the most challenging moments throughout the season, and they get first crack at the role at the pointy end.
Players who repeatedly fail these tests fall down the pecking order in favour of a "lesser" or younger player who is able to demonstrate they're able to cope with the pressure.
That's obviously only part of the equation, but that would be a starting point for me. With an approach like that it is important to be up front with the players from the start and get buy in. Acknowledge that we ARE facing an uphill battle just to get back into the position to atone for 2024, but that every step along the way will be in service of the goal of not only getting to the grand final, but grabbing it with both hands irrespective of who lines up against us.
Some players will not respond well to the approach, and that's a good thing, because that's a short cut to separating the wheat from the chaff. The players who are really committed to winning a premiership and those who already have a strong internal drive will welcome the opportunity to have everyone on the same page and battle-hardened by the time finals roll around. And those who don't have the work ethic to get on board are part of the problem.
I'm aware that applying premiership pressure isn't possible every quarter of every game, I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting it needs to be switched on in the 1st quarter, and we need to be able to switch it on if an opponent dominates, or starts pulling back a lead etc. We need to show that we have the killer instinct and we need to be able to turn it on when we need to. And most importantly, we need to figure out which players are capable of being part of that group.
If we have a significant lead, my instructions would be have fun, just make the right decisions and execute, and apply enough pressure not to allow our opponent back in the game. Otherwise, it's back to premiership-quarter mode.
Last edited:
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JackHiscoxWasFast
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Out: Parker, McLean, ( 2 out of Lloyd, Florent, Jmac)
In: Cleary, Sheldrick, Mills, Adams
Can’t win the flag with the 2024 GF line up
In: Cleary, Sheldrick, Mills, Adams
Can’t win the flag with the 2024 GF line up
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No way out goes jmac imo
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Unless amartey 2nd rucks McLean stays
Agree a tall goes
Agree a tall goes
JackHiscoxWasFast
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Yeah - pre injury jmac no way but 2 knee injuries Jmac there is for sure a question mark over. GF Jmac to come back through VFL
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Thibk he will be fine by r1
JackHiscoxWasFast
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Hope so, after the first knee injury it took him nearly a year to get back to his best.
He’s one of may favourite players but I’m concerned after 2 knees.
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