Opinion The Way Forward

[Nuggetz]

For mine, words from the players and club won't mean much. I've heard it all before. I want to see action next year, primarily changes in our strategy & team selection.

I want the players to play with recklessness, I don't care if it leads to silly free kicks or suspensions in trying to put pressure on the opposition and winning the ball. I want to see a hard edge & remind teams that playing against Sydney is not going to be 'bruise free' footy anymore.

Actions, not words.

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

For mine, words from the players and club won't mean much. I've heard it all before. I want to see action next year, primarily changes in our strategy & team selection.

I want the players to play with recklessness, I don't care if it leads to silly free kicks or suspensions in trying to put pressure on the opposition and winning the ball. I want to see a hard edge & remind teams that playing against Sydney is not going to be 'bruise free' footy anymore.

Actions, not words.

Can only happen with a new coach. Otherwise more of same with some minor magnet shuffling.

 

[Nuggetz]

After hearing Harley's comments about lacking size in the midfield, I think early indications are Mills returning to the midfield to combine with Heeney, Rowbottom & Warner. We're going for more 2 way players & grunt over speed imo. I like it.

 

[Bloods86]

After hearing Harley's comments about lacking size in the midfield, I think early indications are Mills returning to the midfield to combine with Heeney, Rowbottom & Warner. We're going for more 2 way players & grunt over speed imo. I like it.

If we want consistent grunt and 2 way players, Warner shouldn't be there for the most part. He can attend centre bounces late in quarters and the last quarter or so.

 

[Nuggetz]

If we want consistent grunt and 2 way players, Warner shouldn't be there for the most part. He can attend centre bounces late in quarters and the last quarter or so.

I like this idea, then park him in the fwd line where he can cause havoc with pressure & natural goal scoring ability. Maybe something like centre bounces & last 5mins of each quarter? Horse you reading this or what?

 

[sataris]

If we want consistent grunt and 2 way players, Warner shouldn't be there for the most part. He can attend centre bounces late in quarters and the last quarter or so.

Warner would be the ideal sub.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

After hearing Harley's comments about lacking size in the midfield, I think early indications are Mills returning to the midfield to combine with Heeney, Rowbottom & Warner. We're going for more 2 way players & grunt over speed imo. I like it.

There is a bloke called Sheldrick ….. Harley may not have met him yet.

 

[KingV23]

There is a bloke called Sheldrick ….. Harley may not have met him yet.

You mean small forward Sheldrick?

 

[SwansLifer]

There is a bloke called Sheldrick ….. Harley may not have met him yet.

Live look at Angus Sheldrick

 

[KingV23]

Live look at Angus Sheldrick

 

[Nuggetz]

I'm taking the AA midfielder Mills over Sheldrick as first option. Rather pick mids who are in their physical prime for next season. Don't mind Sheldrick pinch hitting in the midfield

 

[J_Moore]

I like this idea, then park him in the fwd line where he can cause havoc with pressure & natural goal scoring ability. Maybe something like centre bounces & last 5mins of each quarter? Horse you reading this or what?

Maybe we did try it while my head was in my hands from despair, but I would’ve liked to have seen Warner swap positions with Parker for periods in the GF. We’ve had Warner rest in the goal square for periods this year, and he was understandably worrying defenders.

 

[Nuggetz]

Something like HF - Warner/Mcdonald/Campbell, FF - Papley/Mclean/Hayward. Chuck in a wicks, cleary or sheldrick to rotate in the fwd line too.

The forwards apart from Warner play exclusively in the forward line to provide stability & synergy. Warner can be replaced with a resting mid (Heeney/Rowbottom) when he goes into the midfield.

 

[JoondalupJ]

After another disaster of a GF performance a lot of theories have been advanced as to how and why and what should be done next.
I feel we need a thread where those thoughts can be gathered together and hopefully some positive lines developed.
So here it is.

I 'd suggest a gigantic change in the administration of the AFL.
I say this, agree or not, go for your lives. For the sake of OUR game.

It appears to me that grand finals which used to be a fight to the death,
now sometimes more than not become floggings.

It means a team that I tipped to do the job earlier this year, displayed a failure
in what I call the expansion dilution syndrome.

You can add my little thing (20 years) about rule changes too.

That has destroyed the game.
Example!!!!
Zorko suffering a 50 metre penalty. It was an abomination of a rule, happens every week.
That's another story.

Dilution?
Where the player pool is so extended it makes more players in numbers up for grabs
to fill more teams, some not up to it, on given days.
Or mediocre, in large numbers. When compared to the standard with less teams.

Whats the AFL do??? Changes the game, actually gives us a so called even competition with below standard performances.THAT IS THIS YEAR ?
And past years since the new clubs, now we have Tassie in two years, that should have been a club years ago.

You see it in the amount of thrashings given out even to tough sides.
Was it Sydney grand finalists that got massacred a few weeks back in a
home and away, Ithink Port?
22 goals to 5 goals, a few weeks before, Port Power had been flogged by Brisbane by about 13 goals.

Why the score discrepancies, it shows inconsistence , of DEPTH even in top clubs.

So basically I am saying the AFL went for promotion and money but forgot the standard.
Then became overly politically correct for and with injury "call out" free kicks
.
Expanded the player pool in to numbers where they ventured foolishly into nearly-there-land
in terms of player pool elite Australian footballers..

And for the AFL to brag about how even and close the season has been is laughable
When so many free kick, give opportunities, but, not for merit for petty calls by very trigger happy
umpires, paid to be hip-shooters with speed of decision and perception difference per occasion and per umpire!!!! That's how grey the rules are.

That rule debacle is only part of the problem.

Whether Physically , mentally or perhaps skill wise or
"having a go!!!" wise.
"That is my way of explaining lack of desperation".

I think our game standard is much worse than it has ever been.
To the point that Sydney died with a whimper and was not good enough to have played a GF?

But they can perform miracles in some games, After taking Port out, then next week play like reserves.

A coach can never change that.
Race horses have to have the special thing to win Melbourne Cups , the trainer can guide and train , but the trainer cannot run for his/her horse. Nor can the jockey , just guide.

The heart is in the horses chest.

Same for football coaches.

They can only tell them ( the players) but I think there is not enough of highstandard quality THEM's?

These days in this diluted competition, to put it out there they can't match a 16 team standard,
and here's the rub , have a think , imagine these 18 clubs turned into 12 clubs?

I mean taken from all clubs all . Every one from all over the country.

I would say we'd see massive national battles of skills and marking kicking and atleast punch the ball off your hand kids when you handball, not throw it. But that almost allowed , and that is a skill let off too often.

A serious 12 club national competition, the two new GC17 and GWS just those two clubs take a
almost 100 new players for 1sts and reserves. And of course depth!

And full squads, even if junior comps can feed the AFL clubs , the pool needs about a 60 to 80 elite players for that depth. For injury and bad performance.
Even Brownlow medalists have those bad days!

Another big call, I think the rules are silly in some cases, and the standard has dropped because there are too many teams, I think rule fiddling has been employed to change the game to fit lesser players,
and it has ruined the Australian Rules flavour, of our OUR!!! National game.

Basically I would love to see a total change in the administration of Australian Rules Football.

The AFL should be overhauled, it is a law unto itself. for what, money and corporates, fancy having $350 to $400 hundred dollar tickets for Sydney's pathetic performance .

The have hijacked this sport and it is nothing like it should be.

There folks some comments on that.

The game is losing lots of people,
that is a fact of life AFL should see, even though they load up the grounds
they won't for long if mediocrity rules this sport for TV money.

HECK THAT WAS A GRAND FINAL???

And sycophantic game callers. That's their job, I know, but its fake ,
They are too cowardly for their pay packets safety,
to call out nonsense.

Richo sometimes did, and Wayne Carey has in the past. That's it.
What do you reckon! Anyone out there game enough to challenge
the AFL, like a KP.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I am probably just working through the phases of acceptance, but I am getting more optimistic that we can make significant improvements without drastic changes. Or maybe it is just because the folk on this board seem to be coalescing around similar sensible propositions and that Harley is hinting at similar things as well.

The 6 biggest areas for improvement I can see are below. I reckon we can make strong ground in 3 to 4 of them, and some ground in the othera (noting no team will ever be perfect across the board in any given year).

1. Faster forward line - I think we have the cattle to get this done. Question on whether 3 talls or 2 talls, but if we get the smalls, mediums and game plan right it may not matter too much.

2. Stronger mids. A fit Mills would make a huge difference. Potentially also Sheldrick. Warner to play more forward.

3. More high quality, pure defenders - I think this is our biggest challenge, particularly if Rampe falls away. I’m not sure how we significantly turn this around next year. Not many trade targets. Reserves players unlikely to be premiership quality within 12 months. It is too early in my mind to switch Logan back and give up on him as a KPF. Need to hope McCartin turns his form around, Mexican keeps growing and then one of the reserves steps up to 3rd KPD quality.

4. Better contested marking upfront - also no immediate fix. I think the focus needs to be first making it to the aerial contest (which are key forward haven’t done enough) and then crashing packs and bringing the ball to ground (Amartey made some progress here, McLean and Logan need to lift their game also). I have already mentioned I would like McLean to bulk up (and of course McDonald and Logan also). I think if we can also get Amartey and McLean to share back-up ruck, that could reduce pressure on Grundy while also enabling McLean to bulk up more. Maybe I am being impatient, but I would also like to see Green start pushing Grundy by late next year, as I presume he is a better marking target than Grundy - or otherwise put Grundy’s feet to the fire and say that “sharpening his axe” means learning to take big marks.

5. Big stage winner’s culture - this will either click or it won’t. And unfortunately we won’t know until the last Saturday in September next year at the earliest. The more I think about it, the more I think it is just a fear of failure and letting others down. The “click” might just be going out there to achieve great things by nailing every moment with ferocity and courage, and the team not taking itself so seriously. The whole “this will not define us” thing makes it sound so bad if you are defined as GF losers. Guess what? Every year one team is defined as a GF loser and 16 others are defined as GF wannabies. So who cares? All the team needs to know is that everyone be okay with them no matter what, so long as they have a bloody good crack on the day, with maximum effort and positive intent. We can live with not winning, just don’t have a loser’s mentality.
Another thing I would like the time to do is focus on initiating and winning contact - get physical and aggressive, then flip to outside once we have possession, time and space - but in the meantime, let the opponent know they are in for a long, hard, relentless day at the office.

6. Injury and workload management - we have to take a squad mentality early on and through the whole season. It strikes me that both Brisbane and Bulldogs ran over us from outside the top 4 because their players were fresh from injuries earlier in the year. Ours came too late snd we rushed players back, and burnt through others in the meantime also. We can risk losing more games through the season by not bringing our A Team to every game. I think we also don’t trust our reserve players enough, and shuffle the top line players to deal with injuries, rather than going with like for like. Our reserve players will bring energy and enthusiasm at the very least, which will help ignite the whole team and keep them fresh through the long year. Finally, we really really need test players properly when they come back from injury and only make / let players play through injury in must win games. I have a feeling Longmire exerts too much pressure through this process (just by the emphasis he puts on best team to win every week and praising players for playing through pain). This is one area we can get smarter instead of harder.

 

[JoondalupJ]

I 'd suggest a gigantic change in the administration of the AFL.
I say this, agree or not, go for your lives. For the sake of OUR game.

It appears to me that grand finals which used to be a fight to the death,
now sometimes more than not become floggings.

It means a team that I tipped to do the job earlier this year, displayed a failure
in what I call the expansion dilution syndrome.

You can add my little thing (20 years) about rule changes too.

That has destroyed the game.
Example!!!!
Zorko suffering a 50 metre penalty. It was an abomination of a rule, happens every week.
That's another story.

Dilution?
Where the player pool is so extended it makes more players in numbers up for grabs
to fill more teams, some not up to it, on given days.
Or mediocre, in large numbers. When compared to the standard with less teams.

Whats the AFL do??? Changes the game, actually gives us a so called even competition with below standard performances.THAT IS THIS YEAR ?
And past years since the new clubs, now we have Tassie in two years, that should have been a club years ago.

You see it in the amount of thrashings given out even to tough sides.
Was it Sydney grand finalists that got massacred a few weeks back in a
home and away, Ithink Port?
22 goals to 5 goals, a few weeks before, Port Power had been flogged by Brisbane by about 13 goals.

Why the score discrepancies, it shows inconsistence , of DEPTH even in top clubs.

So basically I am saying the AFL went for promotion and money but forgot the standard.
Then became overly politically correct for and with injury "call out" free kicks
.
Expanded the player pool in to numbers where they ventured foolishly into nearly-there-land
in terms of player pool elite Australian footballers..

And for the AFL to brag about how even and close the season has been is laughable
When so many free kick, give opportunities, but, not for merit for petty calls by very trigger happy
umpires, paid to be hip-shooters with speed of decision and perception difference per occasion and per umpire!!!! That's how grey the rules are.

That rule debacle is only part of the problem.

Whether Physically , mentally or perhaps skill wise or
"having a go!!!" wise.
"That is my way of explaining lack of desperation".

I think our game standard is much worse than it has ever been.
To the point that Sydney died with a whimper and was not good enough to have played a GF?

But they can perform miracles in some games, After taking Port out, then next week play like reserves.

A coach can never change that.
Race horses have to have the special thing to win Melbourne Cups , the trainer can guide and train , but the trainer cannot run for his/her horse. Nor can the jockey , just guide.

The heart is in the horses chest.

Same for football coaches.

They can only tell them ( the players) but I think there is not enough of highstandard quality THEM's?

These days in this diluted competition, to put it out there they can't match a 16 team standard,
and here's the rub , have a think , imagine these 18 clubs turned into 12 clubs?

I mean taken from all clubs all . Every one from all over the country.

I would say we'd see massive national battles of skills and marking kicking and atleast punch the ball off your hand kids when you handball, not throw it. But that almost allowed , and that is a skill let off too often.

A serious 12 club national competition, the two new GC17 and GWS just those two clubs take a
almost 100 new players for 1sts and reserves. And of course depth!

And full squads, even if junior comps can feed the AFL clubs , the pool needs about a 60 to 80 elite players for that depth. For injury and bad performance.
Even Brownlow medalists have those bad days!

Another big call, I think the rules are silly in some cases, and the standard has dropped because there are too many teams, I think rule fiddling has been employed to change the game to fit lesser players,
and it has ruined the Australian Rules flavour, of our OUR!!! National game.

Basically I would love to see a total change in the administration of Australian Rules Football.

The AFL should be overhauled, it is a law unto itself. for what, money and corporates, fancy having $350 to $400 hundred dollar tickets for Sydney's pathetic performance .

The have hijacked this sport and it is nothing like it should be.

There folks some comments on that.

The game is losing lots of people,
that is a fact of life AFL should see, even though they load up the grounds
they won't for long if mediocrity rules this sport for TV money.

HECK THAT WAS A GRAND FINAL???

And sycophantic game callers. That's their job, I know, but its fake ,
They are too cowardly for their pay packets safety,
to call out nonsense.

Richo sometimes did, and Wayne Carey has in the past. That's it.
What do you reckon! Anyone out there game enough to challenge
the AFL, like a KP.

I'll add, I think I jumped into the wrong pool when reading The Way Forward, more about Sydney than my on going complaints about the state of the game in itself.

I still think the whole thing I put out is relevant to Sydney's performance and to other clubs now.

There are 3 or 4 clubs that could have made the GF, and done better, outside the 8.
It was a weird year.

None of my comments were a shot at The Swans , I tipped them, this is an illness of corporation blind handling of a national sport.
I'd love to see the AFL investigated.

 

[BloodySwan]

I think we should put all our hopes and dreams on a young midfielder who hasn't played 10 senior games to resolve our midfield woes

 

[Kiama Chris]

I am probably just working through the phases of acceptance, but I am getting more optimistic that we can make significant improvements without drastic changes. Or maybe it is just because the folk on this board seem to be coalescing around similar sensible propositions and that Harley is hinting at similar things as well.

The 6 biggest areas for improvement I can see are below. I reckon we can make strong ground in 3 to 4 of them, and some ground in the othera (noting no team will ever be perfect across the board in any given year).

1. Faster forward line - I think we have the cattle to get this done. Question on whether 3 talls or 2 talls, but if we get the smalls, mediums and game plan right it may not matter too much.

2. Stronger mids. A fit Mills would make a huge difference. Potentially also Sheldrick. Warner to play more forward.

3. More high quality, pure defenders - I think this is our biggest challenge, particularly if Rampe falls away. I’m not sure how we significantly turn this around next year. Not many trade targets. Reserves players unlikely to be premiership quality within 12 months. It is too early in my mind to switch Logan back and give up on him as a KPF. Need to hope McCartin turns his form around, Mexican keeps growing and then one of the reserves steps up to 3rd KPD quality.

4. Better contested marking upfront - also no immediate fix. I think the focus needs to be first making it to the aerial contest (which are key forward haven’t done enough) and then crashing packs and bringing the ball to ground (Amartey made some progress here, McLean and Logan need to lift their game also). I have already mentioned I would like McLean to bulk up (and of course McDonald and Logan also). I think if we can also get Amartey and McLean to share back-up ruck, that could reduce pressure on Grundy while also enabling McLean to bulk up more. Maybe I am being impatient, but I would also like to see Green start pushing Grundy by late next year, as I presume he is a better marking target than Grundy - or otherwise put Grundy’s feet to the fire and say that “sharpening his axe” means learning to take big marks.

5. Big stage winner’s culture - this will either click or it won’t. And unfortunately we won’t know until the last Saturday in September next year at the earliest. The more I think about it, the more I think it is just a fear of failure and letting others down. The “click” might just be going out there to achieve great things by nailing every moment with ferocity and courage, and the team not taking itself so seriously. The whole “this will not define us” thing makes it sound so bad if you are defined as GF losers. Guess what? Every year one team is defined as a GF loser and 16 others are defined as GF wannabies. So who cares? All the team needs to know is that everyone be okay with them no matter what, so long as they have a bloody good crack on the day, with maximum effort and positive intent. We can live with not winning, just don’t have a loser’s mentality.
Another thing I would like the time to do is focus on initiating and winning contact - get physical and aggressive, then flip to outside once we have possession, time and space - but in the meantime, let the opponent know they are in for a long, hard, relentless day at the office.

6. Injury and workload management - we have to take a squad mentality early on and through the whole season. It strikes me that both Brisbane and Bulldogs ran over us from outside the top 4 because their players were fresh from injuries earlier in the year. Ours came too late snd we rushed players back, and burnt through others in the meantime also. We can risk losing more games through the season by not bringing our A Team to every game. I think we also don’t trust our reserve players enough, and shuffle the top line players to deal with injuries, rather than going with like for like. Our reserve players will bring energy and enthusiasm at the very least, which will help ignite the whole team and keep them fresh through the long year. Finally, we really really need test players properly when they come back from injury and only make / let players play through injury in must win games. I have a feeling Longmire exerts too much pressure through this process (just by the emphasis he puts on best team to win every week and praising players for playing through pain). This is one area we can get smarter instead of harder.

Good, sensible approach. Doubt there are any silver bullets out there so better use of what we have and a better mental approach will probably get us as far as we can go next year.
Good development and drafting to work on future years.
McPointy as VFL coach is a step forward IMO.

 

[Bloods86]

I think we should put all our hopes and dreams on a young midfielder who hasn't played 10 senior games to resolve our midfield woes

It's Mills and him. Unless we trade someone in, that's where it has to come from.

Otherwise we could pull Roberts from defence, but that hurts us down back.

 

[BloodySwan]

It's Mills and him. Unless we trade someone in, that's where it has to come from.

Otherwise we could pull Roberts from defence, but that hurts us down back.

Then it's not enough, Mills will make an improvement but I don't believe enough of one. We have to bring someone else in or we have to get creative. Sheldrick and Mills aren't enough to fix our contested centre

 

[Bloods86]

Then it's not enough, Mills will make an improvement but I don't believe enough of one. We have to bring someone else in or we have to get creative. Sheldrick and Mills aren't enough to fix our contested centre

I'm not sure how we can be more creative than bringing the 2 best contested mids at the club that didn't really play midfield this year, outside of an ageing Adams, into the midfield.

There's not really many good options out there to bring in. Kennedy from Blues likely stays in Vic, young family.

Robertson from Lions likely heads home to WA if he wants to leave.

There's some mature agers in state leagues that might be worth a look though, otherwise it likely needs to be internal improvement.

 

[Adnico26Parker]

Looks like we tried to get Dew back as an assistant but staying at Brisbane

 

[Bloods86]

Looks like we tried to get Dew back as an assistant but staying at Brisbane

The fact we tried, at least suggests we're looking for a heavy hitter, not just some inexperienced line coach.

 

[Adnico26Parker]

The fact we tried, at least suggests we're looking for a heavy hitter, not just some inexperienced line coach.

If he’s not going back to Adelaide, I wonder if we’d try and get Montgomery over from GWS?

 

[BloodySwan]

I'm not sure how we can be more creative than bringing the 2 best contested mids at the club that didn't really play midfield this year, outside of an ageing Adams, into the midfield.

There's not really many good options out there to bring in. Kennedy from Blues likely stays in Vic, young family.

Robertson from Lions likely heads home to WA if he wants to leave.

There's some mature agers in state leagues that might be worth a look though, otherwise it likely needs to be internal improvement.

Need to revisit some of our players and move them. Blakey, Florent, Gulden, Hayward, Papley, Jmac, are they all playing in their best spots?