Opinion The Way Forward

[Dubsforsam1]

Maybe the review should focus on the players who didn't tackle/chase and made multiple clangers/incorrect disposals rather than the coach

 

[Jewelsbon]

Maybe the review should focus on the players who didn't tackle/chase and made multiple clangers/incorrect disposals rather than the coach

Maybe it should focus on both.....

 

[Kiama Chris]

If Longmire views an external review after 3 abysmal grand final performances, as a slap in the face, then he's not the right man for the job. He and others have had multiple chances now, he either wants to learn something new or he should get out of the way.

Roos, Simpson (who was the last coach of an interstate side to win against Vic oppo, and after a then sizeable defeat a few years earlier), Bolton, Goodes, O'Keefe for some likely harsher critique etc. Marty Mattner's won a few SANFL flags as coach.

Doesn't even need to be from the AFL world.

Surely the likes of Richards and Pyke know some people who review teams that fail under pressure in the business world.

As for trust, I mean, I have zero trust in the club being able to do an internal review and come up with a successful approach for next time.

I meant that Roos, his previous boss, would be the slap, not the review per se.

 

[Bloods86]

I meant that Roos, his previous boss, would be the slap, not the review per se.

Fair enough, but he should welcome whatever it might take.

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

Gets back to a having a continuous improvement culture. Longmire has publicly stated he has no idea what went wrong, that’s twice now. Do we wait a third or a 4th time ? He should be the one lobbying for an external review so other able minds can also help with their perspectives. And as for the players, this jogging going bruise free and looking disinterested, if that is tolerated and there’s no consequences - why would they change ?

The standard you walk around past is the standard you accept.

We have a cultural problem. We need to change.

 

[rustycrate]

Gets back to a having a continuous improvement culture. Longmire has publicly stated he has no idea what went wrong, that’s twice now. Do we wait a third or a 4th time ? He should be the one lobbying for an external review so other able minds can also help with their perspectives. And as for the players, this jogging going bruise free and looking disinterested, if that is tolerated and there’s no consequences - why would they change ?

The standard you walk around past is the standard you accept.

We have a cultural problem. We need to change.

Name your better standard. You have been brave and stepped up and criticized the great Horse. According to you he has no idea.

According to you
The standard you walk around past is the standard you accept.
We have a cultural problem. We need to change.

What is your solution?

Brave people like you not only have temerity to stand up and say what they feel, they have the substance to take whatever comes back from their temerity.

What is your solution for change Fast Man?

I respect your opinion.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Gets back to a having a continuous improvement culture. Longmire has publicly stated he has no idea what went wrong, that’s twice now. Do we wait a third or a 4th time ? He should be the one lobbying for an external review so other able minds can also help with their perspectives. And as for the players, this jogging going bruise free and looking disinterested, if that is tolerated and there’s no consequences - why would they change ?

The standard you walk around past is the standard you accept.

We have a cultural problem. We need to change.

Not sure you have a strong grasp on how a continuous improvement culture works. Consequences are not a big part of it. CI is driven from within. The Bloods Culture was a CI culture. You, my friend, are looking for vengeance. Consequences.

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

Not sure you have a strong grasp on how a continuous improvement culture works. Consequences are not a big part of it. CI is driven from within. The Bloods Culture was a CI culture. You, my friend, are looking for vengeance. Consequences.

Here are my thoughts rustycrate and Kiama Chris. Could write a thesis but won’t so here goes.

Firstly, we need to value premierships over memberships as a club. If Pridham down don’t understand that one precedes the other we have a problem. What can we do about it ? Not much if Port is anything to go by. Only years in the wilderness can affect this change. Agree we’ve gone too corporate for a footy club.

Let’s assume Pridham, Harley and Board are as desperate for premierships as much as we are. Then, a root and branch independent review needs to be commissioned with findings shared with both senior management and players.

Thirdly, Horse has to go. Not for vengeance, not as a consequence, but for the fact he does not perform in Grand Finals. If you’re happy to keep making finals but not winning the GF then by all means keep him on. Plenty of support staff need reviewing as well, psychologist, lawyer, recruitment etc.

Fourthly, we need key performance indicators that measure what’s required to win a flag. Will assume a new coach has a grasp of these. A lot of us believe that contested footy, clearances, manic defence and pressure are important. If so we measure and reward this and we also recruit for this. It also means we drop players who don’t perform. I believe we are way too soft but what would I know, let the new coach set the priorities.

Finally, Captain and leadership group have to set the standard. Need to hold each other accountable, need to lead by example.

I’m of the belief we need dramatic change to win a flag. We had 2 years to fix it. Time’s up.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Here are my thoughts rustycrate and Kiama Chris. Could write a thesis but won’t so here goes.

Firstly, we need to value premierships over memberships as a club. If Pridham down don’t understand that one precedes the other we have a problem. What can we do about it ? Not much if Port is anything to go by. Only years in the wilderness can affect this change. Agree we’ve gone too corporate for a footy club.

Let’s assume Pridham, Harley and Board are as desperate for premierships as much as we are. Then, a root and branch independent review needs to be commissioned with findings shared with both senior management and players.

Thirdly, Horse has to go. Not for vengeance, not as a consequence, but for the fact he does not perform in Grand Finals. If you’re happy to keep making finals but not winning the GF then by all means keep him on. Plenty of support staff need reviewing as well, psychologist, lawyer, recruitment etc.

Fourthly, we need key performance indicators that measure what’s required to win a flag. Will assume a new coach has a grasp of these. A lot of us believe that contested footy, clearances, manic defence and pressure are important. If so we measure and reward this and we also recruit for this. It also means we drop players who don’t perform. I believe we are way too soft but what would I know, let the new coach set the priorities.

Finally, Captain and leadership group have to set the standard. Need to hold each other accountable, need to lead by example.

I’m of the belief we need dramatic change to win a flag. We had 2 years to fix it. Time’s up.

In response, my thoughts:
1) Matter of opinion but 17 clubs hang on memberships, one on a premiership.
2) Partly agree and partly disagree. As always, the devil is in the detail.
3) As judged by disappointment in failing to win more than one premiership. He's done a lot right. Cannot agree for those reasons.
4) Here we agree. I have put this forward myself. No reason the coaching group cannot make changes such as these.
But it still needs cool heads and a measured approach to deliver change without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Nuggetz]

I don't think it's culture considering our consistent strong performances in the regular season. I think it's tactics & game day preparation. We couldn't have prepared better for the GF but fell to a heap on gameday. I don't think the boys wearing glasses or flying private or being difficult in tickets etc, had much to do with what happened on gameday.

They would've tried different preps previously & players spoke about how they were better for the experience from 2022. How they had a better grasp on dealing with the extra attention during the GF week.

The only aspect left to review are tactics & gameday prep. At the core of it, why did we fall away & lose the game in the last 10mins of the 2nd quarter? Is that what happened in previous GFs? Things of that nature.

I think looking for cultural issues is a wasteful exercise & is shying away from the core issue of tactics & gameday prep.

The only thing I have seen is the bus vid of the players smiling & relaxed on their way to the MCG contrasted with Lions who looked a bit more serious & focused. Although that's only a 10-20second clip & perhaps the Lions players were also smiling, laughing etc but not shown.

 

[Nuggetz]

The biggest concern was Horse (assume the club) were stumped for answers regarding another GF loss. For that reason, I would seek an outsider to liaise with the club in their review. That would allow for a complete fresh set of eyes to view. I wouldn't pick any former players.

Someone like a Luke Hodge or the like, potentially Buckley? I'm unsure who but someone removed from the club.

 

[Nuggetz]

Btw I'm finally over the anger stage, it takes time but you'll get there eventually lol.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Btw I'm finally over the anger stage, it takes time but you'll get there eventually lol.

. Things become clearer I think. Certainly have for me anyway. Haven't reached acceptance yet. Maybe mid-season. Testing is good.
I watched the NRL grand final (don't bother, I was a league boy most of my life). Penrith had a simple but effective game plan that they executed with incredible intensity. A couple of tricks that earned tries then back to smashing the middle. Boring as batsh*t but talk about effective! Their focus and effort was 110%. Just what we were missing. Focus and effort. Now to find out how and why. Cheer cheer!

 

[Kiama Chris]

I don't think it's culture considering our consistent strong performances in the regular season. I think it's tactics & game day preparation. We couldn't have prepared better for the GF but fell to a heap on gameday. I don't think the boys wearing glasses or flying private or being difficult in tickets etc, had much to do with what happened on gameday.

They would've tried different preps previously & players spoke about how they were better for the experience from 2022. How they had a better grasp on dealing with the extra attention during the GF week.

The only aspect left to review are tactics & gameday prep. At the core of it, why did we fall away & lose the game in the last 10mins of the 2nd quarter? Is that what happened in previous GFs? Things of that nature.

I think looking for cultural issues is a wasteful exercise & is shying away from the core issue of tactics & gameday prep.

The only thing I have seen is the bus vid of the players smiling & relaxed on their way to the MCG contrasted with Lions who looked a bit more serious & focused. Although that's only a 10-20second clip & perhaps the Lions players were also smiling, laughing etc but not shown.

I suggest breaking it into two:
1) the coaches and outsider(s) to look at cultural issues (ie aren't we the Bloods?), game prep (general and GF) and tactics (seems like they went out the window. Get into improvement strategy. I really hope they decide to change the emphasis on markers for effort, defence and pressure for games and B&F. Something tangible. Could happen now.
2) the players and coaches to do a bloods style debrief. Could get pretty brutal. May need a facilitator to keep it under control but not "observers". This is just about the GF and why was it different.
From it needs to come serious actionable and measurable commitment. After the player break but before Xmas.
After both re-evaluate our game plan and try some new stuff after Xmas. New roles? Get serious evaluation and feedback happening again.

 

[Nuggetz]

. Things become clearer I think. Certainly have for me anyway. Haven't reached acceptance yet. Maybe mid-season. Testing is good.
I watched the NRL grand final (don't bother, I was a league boy most of my life). Penrith had a simple but effective game plan that they executed with incredible intensity. A couple of tricks that earned tries then back to smashing the middle. Boring as batsh*t but talk about effective! Their focus and effort was 110%. Just what we were missing. Focus and effort. Now to find out how and why. Cheer cheer!

Panthers are a freak team. I haven't seen a team have that sustained ruthlessness and drive for a long time across any sport.

I hope we reach out to them for some advice. Leave no stone unturned.

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

Signs we do indeed have cultural issues:

1. This game won’t define us mentality.
2. Lowest pressure rating ever for a GF - jogging, bruise free etc etc
3. No one prepared to muck in at the coalface.
4. Coach completely stumped at what went wrong.
5. Whole vibe/energy looked off in the GF week - almost like we’ll do our best and if we win that’s great.
6. Post match vibe - it wasn’t meant to be.
7. Minor premiers T-Shirts ? Almost like look what we won, even if we lose GF. Completely wrong.
8. What does the playing group actually stand for ?


And finally I’m not sure we’re prepared to do whatever it takes to win, put the body on the line, winning means everything mentality. Players certainly don’t give that impression.

I think putting it down mainly to game day tactics / weeks prep is just the tip, the iceberg is the culture.

 

[Crust]

Get Luke Hodge to do a review.
Smart and tough player.
Also very independent.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Signs we do indeed have cultural issues:

1. This game won’t define us mentality.
2. Lowest pressure rating ever for a GF - jogging, bruise free etc etc
3. No one prepared to muck in at the coalface.
4. Coach completely stumped at what went wrong.
5. Whole vibe/energy looked off in the GF week - almost like we’ll do our best and if we win that’s great.
6. Post match vibe - it wasn’t meant to be.
7. Minor premiers T-Shirts ? Almost like look what we won, even if we lose GF. Completely wrong.
8. What does the playing group actually stand for ?


And finally I’m not sure we’re prepared to do whatever it takes to win, put the body on the line, winning means everything mentality. Players certainly don’t give that impression.

I think putting it down mainly to game day tactics / weeks prep is just the tip, the iceberg is the culture.

Guess that's one of the big questions. Is it a one off, short term, or, as you describe it, an iceberg? A good review should answer that question and suggest remedies.

 

[Bloods86]

Get Luke Hodge to do a review.
Smart and tough player.
Also very independent.

He would have some good insights to winning grand finals.

He can also teach our players to snipe opponents into goalposts and how to drink and drive.

 

[Kiama Chris]

He would have some good insights to winning grand finals.

He can also teach our players to snipe opponents into goalposts and how to drink and drive.

Definitely post of the day.

 

[caesar88]

I think our game plan and style is suited for home & away games but will never win a grand final. I think this is why we struggled early in games when the heat was really on between two fresh sides, and why we look lost and hopeless once we get to grand finals which are more about defence and the contest than ball movement or outside run.

Of all the massive pre-seasons needed at our club, no one needs a bigger one than the coaches.

 

[rustycrate]

He would have some good insights to winning grand finals.

He can also teach our players to snipe opponents into goalposts and how to drink and drive.

As long as we win GFs I can forgive a few misdemeanors.

 

[rustycrate]

I think our game plan and style is suited for home & away games but will never win a grand final. I think this is why we struggled early in games when the heat was really on between two fresh sides, and why we look lost and hopeless once we get to grand finals which are more about defence and the contest than ball movement or outside run.

Of all the massive pre-seasons needed at our club, no one needs a bigger one than the coaches.

I think there is a nexus between the slow starts and the GF loss. I think these is a definite link. Fix the slow starts will go a long way to fixing everything else. Be it match preparation, players not mentally switched on, playing fprwards in the forwards, playing inside mids inside, manning up not guarding grass or all of the above.

I don't want to see another slow start in 2025. Otherwise its here we go again.

Slow starts = the dead canary in the coal mine.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

He would have some good insights to winning grand finals.

He can also teach our players to snipe opponents into goalposts and how to drink and drive - and get away with it

Edited for accuracy

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I think there is a nexus between the slow starts and the GF loss. I think these is a definite link. Fix the slow starts will go a long way to fixing everything else. Be it match preparation, players not mentally switched on, playing fprwards in the forwards, playing inside mids inside, manning up not guarding grass or all of the above.

I don't want to see another slow start in 2025. Otherwise its here we go again.

The really weird bit is that for most of 2022 I think it was, we had amazing starts and then fell away in fourth quarters.

I think it is a combo of our game plan evolving since then, our players getting fitter, but also other teams evolving to counter our core game plan for effectively.

What stood out for Brisbane this year, is that they learnt to play controlled football early in games and chaos football as games opened up.

We just need to hone these two gears as well, it may not take too much. Remember, we were better than GWS and Geelong, who both really should have beaten Brisbane. The gap is not THAT large.