Opinion The Way Forward

[Swans22]

The question is who though? Oliver?

I’d move Florent out unless he can develop some more q accountability in defence

 

[Troystenvic]

I’d move Florent out unless he can develop some more q accountability in defence

I'll edit my post soon. I meant who to bring in?

 

[Blood1969]

Looks like most people are united that we need a forward line that applies more pressure unlike anything we saw in the GF. For me there are only a couple of tweaks required
- only select 2 KPFs and add Cleary into the mix. I was concerned by our lack of speed heading into finals and we were exposed.
-add a genuine hard nut midfielder in Sheldrick with genuine craft. Would be the perfect complement to our current set up.
-Mills permanent defender with a full pre season could be all Australian level. Need a leader down there cause Rampe won’t last much longer

How about Blakey to CHF? He could tear that position apart. Replace him in the backline with Harry Arnold. Big body, great kick, very highly rated at the Lions and unfortunately cut down by injury this year. Amarty a big summer in the gym, on the track along with Logan. The three of them (Mclean) can fight out 2 key forward positions. And Brody need a regular rest next year. Hate to lose Parker but Sheldrick in and stays in. Just my thoughts...

 

[Blood1969]

I'll edit my post soon. I meant who to bring in?

Harry Arnold.

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

Need to press fast forward on the future. See who can make it in ressies, move some players on, get some hard nuts recruited, change the game style to more contested, work out permanent roles for Mills, Logan, Blakey etc.

Faster we do this the better, need to get urgent about it. Lions, Hawks, Dogs, Blues and Freo are ahead of us next year IMO so keeping same is futile as we are way behind and won’t be contesting next year.

 

[The King!]

Get the other Fagan brother , he coached after Stevie Wright at Clarence

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[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Early bones of what I'd like our best team to look like next year:

FB - Mills | McCartin | Cunningham
HB - Roberts | Melican | Blakey
C - Gulden | Sheldrick | McInerney
HF - Hayward | McDonald | Warner
FF - Papley | McLean | Cleary
Foll - Grundy | Heeney | Rowbottom

IC - Florent, Campbell, Jordon, Amartey

Sub - Lloyd

Obviously we have no idea what the list will look like by then, but I just wanted to look at potential changes we could, and should, make. This period right here is, after all, the time of the year when the coaches start to look at game plan and structural changes for the season ahead.

Clearly we have some veterans that are closer to the ends than the peaks of their careers, so I think we can phase them out whilst also steering the team in the direction of things we need more of - more pressure and hardness.

Mills would hopefully be fit and we can finally get a full season out of him as he takes over from Rampe as the sort of third/fourth tall and general of the back-line. Sir Dane is still capable of very elite footy, but not as consistently and reliably (and there is no shame in that!) so probably needs to be in the 'back up' category by now.

Our main midfield trio of Grundy, Heeney & Rowbottom to remain as is, but I'm giving them some support in the form of an actual midfielder with actual midfield craft in Sheldrick, and playing Warner the natural half forward at half forward. This move gives us two of the things we really need - more hardness in the midfield, and more speed in the forward line.

I'm keeping the three talls in, because I haven't seen any evidence that having three talls won't win you a flag, but I'm surrounding them with smaller, quicker players who can chase and tackle and close space and win ground balls inside 50 with genuine pressure - already mentioned Warner, but Florent and Campbell too, and I'm adding Cleary in to expand on the form he showed when given a chance late this season. Let this quartet of fleet-footed guys buzz around and cause chaos inside 50 to counter the stagnant but important structure the three talls can provide.

Lloyd, who was exceptional late in the season and looks further from being finished than our other veterans, still has a role to play but I think we need to have the attitude that if you can't bring pressure or hardness then you don't have a guaranteed spot. Having a mature veteran and an elite runner come on and be able to play a full quarter just makes sense for a sub anyway.

I like this list.

I’d consider Fox also as sub for some games, as very much a replacement sub.

I didn’t watch closely enough, but I am not sure JJ was marvellous in the finals? You could also potentially consider an Adams for that place.

Are there no impact players coming through the reserves who can add some X factor, who could challenge for the Lloyd or JJ spots? Or just a really physical character?

Also, is it unrealistic to think that Green may be able to stand in for Grundy some games / even start to challenge for airtime? Or are we still on the Ladhams backup train for next year?

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

If the GF was a regular season match, you would drop quite a few players. Same mindset should apply for Round 1 next year - drop the under performers to give them a message. Even if it’s 5 players or so. Needs to be consequences. For round 1:

In: Sheldrick, Cleary, Campbell, Adams, off season recruit (Stringer, Kennedy etc)

Out: Take your pick

 

[Kiama Chris]

If the GF was a regular season match, you would drop quite a few players. Same mindset should apply for Round 1 next year - drop the under performers to give them a message. Even if it’s 5 players or so. Needs to be consequences. For round 1:

In: Sheldrick, Cleary, Campbell, Adams, off season recruit (Stringer, Kennedy etc)

Out: Take your pick

It's like training puppies. Much too late after the event. To achieve that kind of result the consequences need to be attached to the preseason and/or trial matches, not the GF.
Need to be set up beforehand.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

‘Can’t rely on talent’: Ex-coach urges former club to ‘put good players on the market’ after GF disaster​

Former Sydney coach Paul Roos has called for his old side to be bold during this off-season and consider trading a star player, as the Swans are left to rue yet another grand final embarrassment.

‘Can’t rely on talent’: Ex-coach urges former club to ‘put good players on the market’ after GF disaster

‘Can’t rely on talent’: Ex-coach urges former club to ‘put good players on the market’ after GF disaster

www.foxsports.com.au

How impressive is Roos?

Telling that he said Sydney needs to be ruthless about players who don’t perform on the big stage - I wonder if he had particular people in mind?

Thinking about the potential trade value to big game impact ratios, the following players come to mind for me:

1. Gulden (plus doesn’t he one day want to play for Carton anyway?)
2. Blakey
3. Logan
4. Warner (sounds like he wants to go back home, so trade value is higher this year)

If it helps us get a ready made elite key defender, full forward or midfield extractor - I’d be willing to consider any of the above. Although I think Warner is most realistic, and I’m not saying that any of them are not valuable (just that their trade value may be higher than their value to Sydney).

 

[hairy biker]

Apologies I haven't as yet read this thread, so it is likely this has already been covered.

Just read the media thread where Robbie Fox

42

Robbie Fox

Age

31

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.6

5star

MG

151.3

2star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.8

4star

MG

151.3

3star

D

12.2

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

6.8

5star

M

0.4

1star

T

3.6

5star

is quoted as saying;
Throughout the finals series, we did a lot of work with Emma Murray (club psychologist)
‘One game won’t define us.’ This was four weeks ago and we just had this mentality.
“We would like to win a grand final, but it won’t define us."

That was the mindset the players took into the game.

Sorry Robbie, this game, following on from 2022, this game will define the club.
Fine season, top of the ladder, but an embarrassing collapse in the GF.
Only one of those will be season defining.

So the point as to The Way Forward.

Back when Roos took over as coach he brought in Leading Teams and under the leadership of Stewy Maxfield the 'Bloods Culture' was developed.
Now some swear by it, some consider it nonsense, but at the very least it set out a vision for the players, emphasising honest feedback.

We seem to have gone far away from that culture.
We've all seen vision of Errol and others asking fellow players during the game RUOK.
Now I have no problem with that provided the players are also willing to tell another player 'Not good enough mate', 'not up to our standards, you've got to be better than that'.

Fine heap the pressure on Longmire, but don't let the players off.
They are the ones who totally failed on the big stage.
45 tackles on GF day, against a season average of 58. Across the season no team averages less than 50 tackles per game.

We need to get the players to watch the game, dissect their performance and provide honest and if necessary brutal feedback.
Get someone such as Maxfield in and ensure that players take responsibility, set out what they want to stand for and FFS never again go into a GF with a mindset of oh well it would be nice to win, but a smashing won't define us.

All the tactica/personnel changes in the World will mean nothing if the players mentality/perspective doesn't change.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Its why the "way forward" cant exist with the current people in charge as simply making the 8 is considered a pass mark for them.

Club has become a shadow of its former self its all about the monetary value of sponsorships on the jumper and record attendances/members along with some weird fascination to be as diverse as possible.

 

[Dangas]

Our standards are now frankly framed around 'one game won't define us' and 'its amazing we got there again'.....

That attitude pisses me off. Screams no accountability and a "it's ok, there there, they'll be other chances" versus in my head hoping "that was a bloody disgrace, that and 2022 and 2014, is that really how we are as a football club? Bend over backwards and just show no fight? We are the Bloods, a bunch of resilient *****!"

 

[Swans man]

I really like this team & your reasoning too. All makes sense & adds a better balance with speed & grunt.

My version is something like:

FB: Cunningham McCartin Fox
HB: Blakey Mclean Mills

C: Juzzy Adams Gulden

HF: Florent Hayward Jordon
FF: Papley Mclean Cleary

Fol: Grundy Heeney Rowbottom

Int: Warner, Roberts, Campbell, McDonald, Sheldrick

I think this team gives us

• genuine defensive players in defence
• speed/gut running & skills on the wing
• speed & strong defensive pressure in the forwards
• hardness in the mids

I think we have the pieces but we need the right combination, we can't be all skills or all grunt. We need the players to compliment each other.

McLean plays 2 key positions hey

 

[Bloods86]

Early bones of what I'd like our best team to look like next year:

FB - Mills | McCartin | Cunningham
HB - Roberts | Melican | Blakey
C - Gulden | Sheldrick | McInerney
HF - Hayward | McDonald | Warner
FF - Papley | McLean | Cleary
Foll - Grundy | Heeney | Rowbottom

IC - Florent, Campbell, Jordon, Amartey

Sub - Lloyd

Obviously we have no idea what the list will look like by then, but I just wanted to look at potential changes we could, and should, make. This period right here is, after all, the time of the year when the coaches start to look at game plan and structural changes for the season ahead.

Clearly we have some veterans that are closer to the ends than the peaks of their careers, so I think we can phase them out whilst also steering the team in the direction of things we need more of - more pressure and hardness.

Mills would hopefully be fit and we can finally get a full season out of him as he takes over from Rampe as the sort of third/fourth tall and general of the back-line. Sir Dane is still capable of very elite footy, but not as consistently and reliably (and there is no shame in that!) so probably needs to be in the 'back up' category by now.

Our main midfield trio of Grundy, Heeney & Rowbottom to remain as is, but I'm giving them some support in the form of an actual midfielder with actual midfield craft in Sheldrick, and playing Warner the natural half forward at half forward. This move gives us two of the things we really need - more hardness in the midfield, and more speed in the forward line.

I'm keeping the three talls in, because I haven't seen any evidence that having three talls won't win you a flag, but I'm surrounding them with smaller, quicker players who can chase and tackle and close space and win ground balls inside 50 with genuine pressure - already mentioned Warner, but Florent and Campbell too, and I'm adding Cleary in to expand on the form he showed when given a chance late this season. Let this quartet of fleet-footed guys buzz around and cause chaos inside 50 to counter the stagnant but important structure the three talls can provide.

Lloyd, who was exceptional late in the season and looks further from being finished than our other veterans, still has a role to play but I think we need to have the attitude that if you can't bring pressure or hardness then you don't have a guaranteed spot. Having a mature veteran and an elite runner come on and be able to play a full quarter just makes sense for a sub anyway.

Mix of optimism and wanting to set standards / address weaknesses for mine.

F: Cunningham McCartin Arnold
HB: Roberts Melican Blakey
C: Gulden Mills (CoCapt) McInerney
HF: Campbell Logan Warner
FF: Hayward Amartey/McLean Papley
R: Grundy Heeney Rowbottom (CoCapt)
Int: Fox Jordon Sheldrick Florent
Sub: Cleary

E: 3 of Rampe, Lloyd, Adams, Amartey/McLean, Hamling or an undrafted mature age ruck replacing Ladhams

Agree that Rampe may not be best 22, or at least, if we're being optimistic, someone has overtaken him. Arnold had a couple of good games to finish off the VFL season after missing a fair bit of the season to renew hope. I think he's our best hope of a senior debut/breakout, over Edwards and Snell (not just yet), and with an eye on the future, more ideal than Hamling (who might yet be a valuable swingman for a few games if we did ditch the 3 KPFs). This is after delisting Francis, but retaining Arnold obviously.

A few weeks ago I was ready for Mills to stay down back for the rest of his career. But seeing yet again our midfield crumble in the contest and have Brisbane exit with ease, I've flip-flopped and Mills is training with the mids again to hopefully revive his 2022 form (just with a more mature Rowy, Heeney now there), and with more burst/dynamic players in Sheldrick (main option), Warner (2nd option), Campbell and Cleary (when on) taking that 3rd centre bounce spot alongside 2 of Mills, Rowy, Isaac. If Mills can regather top form in midfield, alongside Rowy, and a firing Sheldrick, then I suspect we can manage Heeney a bit more through the year by giving him a little more time up forward, helps offset the 2 KPF change. Even Mills is capable up forward when not attending the bounce.

Which brings me to ditching the 3 KPFs, although if Buller is around and is fit, hopefully can look like challenging as a more mobile 3rd KPF (than McLean or Amartey anyway). I'm pushing Hayward closer to goal a bit more, with Warner and Campbell are pushing up the ground and (hopefully) running back to F50 with the ball. I'm working on these guys lead up marking over summer, Warner isn't bad, and it was a strength of Campbells when drafted.

Fox should be in the 23 for me. Not sure what signal it sends about the grand final performances being unacceptable, if we drop the guy who has turned up to play in both recent ones. I think he should be given a set role each game, not thrown around, and afforded the same formline luxuries as any of our "guns". If we have a smaller opposition forward line, he can replace Arnold and bring in Cleary for more run/pressure. If we're playing a team where JJ needs to be on a mid, then Fox can run interference on the best intercepting defender in lieu of 3 talls. If he has to be sub at times, so be it, even if it's not conducive to his best.

As with you, want plenty of small/medium forward firepower. I'd love Cleary there as pressure forward, but just couldn't fit him. I think Campbell can do similar (though maybe we come to the conclusion he's better as sub), and Warner/Sheldrick should be able to assist. Moving Warner out of the 3rd mid spot (still gets cameos particularly late in quarters/games), he has more focus on running the ball into the F50 and crunching defenders trying to clear it. I think, along with lead up marking, he needs to spend the summer in tackling and pressure drills. He's got the running goal from 50 down pretty well by now.

Could see Lloyd in for Florent based on his fluctuating form. Adams is into the 23 if one of Mills, Heeney, Rowbottom miss.

Mills is sharing co-captaincy with Rowbottom. Not even letting the playing group vote. If they're happy to talk about him doing the tough stuff for them, they should be able to follow his example.