Autopsy A win for the true believers - swans down pies

[Ticky009]

 

[Kirkswan]

Plus the block by JJ

So that win was at least in part down to being a very well coached side? Yes?

 

[Bloods86]

One thing I love about Big Footy is the variety of viewpoints and often the depth of thinking. I like that you have thought from a slightly different point of view in that particular players need a rest or a change in role. Gets you thinking.
My point of view is a bit different. I think we will be doing everything possible to go into the first week of finals in the best possible form with players in their "right" position (according to Horse).
Grundy is a competitive beast and won't be rested unless injured.
I really hope Mills will be moved into defence full time but fear he won't. If he is we could have a back seven of:
Cunningham McCartin Roberts
Mills Melican Blakey Fox
I would also like to see Florent as sub but believe Horse will choose Florent over Fox.
C: Gulden Warner Lloyd was our best balanced with McInerney out. I'm assuming we won't see Juzzy again this season.
R: Grundy Heeney Rowbottom was our best attacking midfield setup. We can run others through there as needed, particularly giving Warner and Heeney time forward.

Part of my role changes is to get players into some form, maybe in a different position, maybe with a break, to then attack the Adelaide game with the best 22 (sans injuries) and potentially back in their main positions. At this point some of the out of form players, or tired players, have been like that for a while. I'm not sure just continuing the same selections/positions will lead to a different outcome.

But yeah, Horse will definitely not be doing what I'd like him to.

 

[monopoly19]

I see they told the work experience kid in the Swans' media team to find two great marks Heeney took in the final quarter for the "Mark of the Week" clip. He found the first one fine, but I'm not sure the second of those really belongs. Sure it was important as the final mark of the game but only because he found himself in space. Anyone else on the ground would have taken that mark.

I'd love to have a clip that puts together the first mark included with the mark he took for his goal. That was a mark few would have taken.

I have somewhere in my mind that he took another great contested mark on the defensive O'Reilly wing too, but I'm not 100% sure that was in the final quarter. Things are a bit fuzzy from last night.

It was. He took the mark for his goal, the mark on the O’Reilly, the mark of JJ’s rushed D50 exit and then the final mark of the game (how fitting).

 

[The King!]

Did Mcrae get upset this wasn't a 50?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

So that win was at least in part down to being a very well coached side? Yes?

Down to Cox/Mcveigh for that setup imo

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I see they told the work experience kid in the Swans' media team to find two great marks Heeney took in the final quarter for the "Mark of the Week" clip. He found the first one fine, but I'm not sure the second of those really belongs. Sure it was important as the final mark of the game but only because he found himself in space. Anyone else on the ground would have taken that mark.

I'd love to have a clip that puts together the first mark included with the mark he took for his goal. That was a mark few would have taken.

I have somewhere in my mind that he took another great contested mark on the defensive O'Reilly wing too, but I'm not 100% sure that was in the final quarter. Things are a bit fuzzy from last night.

Liz if you watched the presser live on Foxtel not the one uploaded one of the reporters a female with curly hair just finished telling Longmire while she put her recording device on the table she was still shaking at the result.

That was great imo

 

[liz]

Down to Cox/Mcveigh for that setup imo

I imagine Paul Roos stayed to watch the game. That goal would have brought back pleasant memories of Ball and Davis nearly 19 years ago.

 

[tombomb]

Last night, I thought we were a bit lucky with the McCartin (non) 50.

But I watched it again today and there is no way that should have been 50. He can't stop on a dime.

I got totally sucked in by the vic commentators.

Never again!

 

[Jewelsbon]

I hoofed it after the siren last week, but plenty of Port fans caught up at lights, from lower tiers etc. Not one said a word to me, not that they needed to, but they seemed pretty happy just to revel in their own performance.

Much like Geelong fans after the 22 GF

Gee I enjoy his insights.

 

[ShireSwan]

It wouldn't be post-game without me writing a blabbering novel about what I'd do in Horse's shoes.

Out: Grundy Adams Mills/Fox
In: Ladhams Sheldrick Melican/Hamling
Sub: Florent

FB: Cunningham TMac Roberts
HB: Mills/Fox Melican Campbell
C: Gulden Heeney Blakey (vs Cox)
HF: Warner Logan Sheldrick
FF: Hayward Amartey Parker
R: Ladhams Rowy Jordon
Int: McLean Rampe Lloyd Cleary

Campbell stuck some big tackles in the 2nd half as the Pies were heading into F50, great spoil on Elliott at one point (got completely outdone by Hill one-on-one, certainly isn't the first). Wouldn't give him a lockdown defensive role, this is to take the Florent/Blakey role with the latter moving up to the wing. Although would overlap/switch at times.

Florent had some good moments late, but just looked bereft of any touch/composure for much of the game. Hopefully we don't have to use the sub early and he gets a mini freshen up. At least it means others are trained/ready to do his role from the start, and he could even go forward when he comes on.

I'd still send Mills to the VFL, looked in slightly better form, but just no endurance. If Fox doesn't look right after being subbed, then he stays, but simply has to play in defence.

Grundy could do with a break, this is really the last chance. You don't really want to be resting players against the Crows, with a bye the following week, and then hopefully, another bye 2 weeks later. Ladhams put in another BOG yesterday in the VFL (24d, 3.1, 4clr), I think he can put in a shift as the main ruck. I was thinking of bringing Hamling (3.0, 9m) in for McLean (managed) for some extra mobility, but not if we manage Grundy.

Almost dropped Blakey again, but think Florent was just as poor for most of last night and without JMac we do still need some attacking wing/HB options. I've pushed him up to go up against Cox's height.

Sheldrick in (36d, 7 clr, 8 score involvements), plays off half forward. Give him some CBs later in quarters (or heck, at the start to set the tone). Had some sketchy disposal, but also pulled off a few sweet kicks and moves.

I'd be giving Parker and Cleary bursts in the mids (otherwise forward, Parker deep), with Heeney to rest forward when Parker is in the mids.

If Melican doesn't get up, Hamling. At least then if Horse persists with Logan down back, we've got a more mobile key forward option.

If we don't do much of that we are going to be obliterated come finals anyway with Mills and Adams.
But Horse being Horse you can expect he'll do very little of that if any at all.

 

[ShireSwan]

Please don't be offended... but I'm so glad you're not Horse...

Mills and Florent need to keep playing... Mills because a) playing in the 2s is not hard enough, quick enough, or tough enough; and b) because we need his leadership out there on the field for the last 2 games. Ollie because both he and Blakey have come off the boil because the whole back six is disrupted... they need to stay out there and be part of the correction to gain the belief and confidence that they can.

In my view, half the reason we've been down is because 6 of our top 12 have been out or on the comeback (Parker, Mills, McInerney, Papley, Rampe & Melican). That makes a huge difference to your cohesion and synchronicity... and then set plays don't come off, confidence is lost... and you end up with last week!

Top 2 is on the line... play the best available!

Mills should not get near the team again until dominating in the 2s over 4 quarters.
He is absolutely nowhere near it atm. Can't even see it from where he is.
Zero clearances with 82% ToG? When we have Sheldrick to come in?

He had zero clearances last week too. Two whole games of football without a single clearance and we have people saying he should stay in the team!!!??

FMD - he should not be out there. Nor should Adams (1 clearance)- who is totally spent after a huge responsibility through the first part of the year and should be rested from all competition next week - then see how he goes the following week in the 2s.

I find it incredible the club keeps grinding players into the ground before finals year after year and expecting a different result. No point in having depth if it's not utilized.

 

[wilsonmatic]

Mills should not get near the team again until dominating in the 2s over 4 quarters.
He is absolutely nowhere near it atm. Can't even see it from where he is.
Zero clearances with 82% ToG? When we have Sheldrick to come in?

He had zero clearances last week too. Two whole games of football without a single clearance and we have people saying he should stay in the team!!!??

FMD - he should not be out there. Nor should Adams (1 clearance)- who is totally spent after a huge responsibility through the first part of the year and should be rested from all competition next week - then see how he goes the following week in the 2s.

I find it incredible the club keeps grinding players into the ground before finals year after year and expecting a different result. No point in having depth if it's not utilized.

Dropping Mills would be quite stupid. When he turns the corner, and he showed a few signs last night, he's going to make us alot better! He's vital to us winning the flag.

On CET-AL00 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ShireSwan]

Dropping Mills would be quite stupid. When he turns the corner, and he showed a few signs last night, he's going to make us alot better! He's vital to us winning the flag.

On CET-AL00 using BigFooty.com mobile app

ZERO clearances in two entire games of footy.
He's a traffic cone.

 

[Bloods86]

Dropping Mills would be quite stupid. When he turns the corner, and he showed a few signs last night, he's going to make us alot better! He's vital to us winning the flag.

On CET-AL00 using BigFooty.com mobile app

You realise it's for 1 week? Only the 1 VFL game left for him to regain some form anyway.

 

[liz]

I find it incredible the club keeps grinding players into the ground before finals year after year and expecting a different result. No point in having depth if it's not utilized.

Do we actually have depth? Even if we do, I don't think the coaches believe in it. And our VFL performances have been so messy and inconsistent it has been hard for those players on the fringe to show they can play in a structured side. Plus the better ones - by necessity - tend to play different roles in the VFL than they might be called on to play in the senior team. I realise that's one criticism some have of the VFL set-up, but realistically you need our better players playing central roles in the VFL side or they'd be smashed.

 

[Bloods86]

Do we actually have depth? Even if we do, I don't think the coaches believe in it. And our VFL performances have been so messy and inconsistent it has been hard for those players on the fringe to show they can play in a structured side. Plus the better ones - by necessity - tend to play different roles in the VFL than they might be called on to play in the senior team. I realise that's one criticism some have of the VFL set-up, but realistically you need our better players playing central roles in the VFL side or they'd be smashed.

When the alternative is Mills in midfield or Adams last night, yes our depth is good enough.

 

[Punts]

Be dropping Adams

Average

 

[tombomb]

Be dropping Adams

Average

I'd rest both him and Grundy until week 1, unless we get flogged next week and need Grundy in the last game to secure top 2.

Adams is a proven finals player, unlike most in our team.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Part of my role changes is to get players into some form, maybe in a different position, maybe with a break, to then attack the Adelaide game with the best 22 (sans injuries) and potentially back in their main positions. At this point some of the out of form players, or tired players, have been like that for a while. I'm not sure just continuing the same selections/positions will lead to a different outcome.

But yeah, Horse will definitely not be doing what I'd like him to.

Nor me I'll warrant.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Do we actually have depth? Even if we do, I don't think the coaches believe in it. And our VFL performances have been so messy and inconsistent it has been hard for those players on the fringe to show they can play in a structured side. Plus the better ones - by necessity - tend to play different roles in the VFL than they might be called on to play in the senior team. I realise that's one criticism some have of the VFL set-up, but realistically you need our better players playing central roles in the VFL side or they'd be smashed.

This is a very important point.
No way would Mills or Parker or Adams or anyone else improve their form in the 2s. At best they would get a bit of match fitness if that was what they needed. They'd be better with a week off and a training block.
Players coming up for one game learn a little bit but not enough to play a key role. How many times have we all said "he needs a run of games"? Why we keep using Francis, for example.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

This is a very important point.
No way would Mills or Parker or Adams or anyone else improve their form in the 2s. At best they would get a bit of match fitness if that was what they needed. They'd be better with a week off and a training block.
Players coming up for one game learn a little bit but not enough to play a key role. How many times have we all said "he needs a run of games"? Why we keep using Francis, for example.

Question is would Hamling be better than Logan in defence? we never gave Hamling a opportunity to gel when we were flying.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

How could you not notice the great Marty Mattner?

<<<

Hey c’mon, sometimes I didn’t notice smooch and he was probably the best small defender to play the game. It’s not a criticism!

 

[Kiama Chris]

Question is would Hamling be better than Logan in defence? we never gave Hamling a opportunity to gel when we were flying.

Don't think it's even a question. Of course he would be. But clearly Horse doesn't see Hamling as part of our best team, for whatever reason.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Don't think it's even a question. Of course he would be. But clearly Horse doesn't see Hamling as part of our best team, for whatever reason.

Its kinda infuriating but nothing we can do about it.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

View attachment 2074456View attachment 2074457Did Mcrae get upset this wasn't a 50?

Exactly. And if that fifty was correctly paid, then the other non-fifty doesn’t even occur.

To be honest, I was comfortable for them both not to be paid. You don’t want umpires deciding games, and while both fifties were technically there in my view, neither of the infringements impacted the play in a meaningful way - so it would have been a soft way to influence the outcome of the game.