Opinion The Way Forward

[Bloods86]

Let's assume there was no indication he wanted to go , would you still be thinking of putting him out there ?

Re: Warner, he can go, unless:

1) He re-commits for at least 2 more years right now. If Freo and Eagles want him, pay up, none of this PSD nonsense from the Eagles.

2) He is told about and is OK with a move to half-forward, taking less CBs. He gets to kick goals and celebrate, but is aware he's spending the summer doing marking and tackling drills.

 

[The King!]

We could trade number 11 he won't ever be higher value and probably has hit his peak

 

[ashep]

There is no Warner trade out there that makes us a better side unless you're assuming that he's 100% gone in '26, AND whatever picks we get back turn into stars.

 

[SSwans2011]

A first attempt at a best 23 prior to any trades, and some thoughts:

FB: Cunningham - Melican - Rampe
HB: Mills - McCartin - Blakey
C: McInerney - Heeney - Gulden
HF: Hayward - McDonald - Campbell
FF: Papley - Amartey - Wicks
Foll: Grundy - Rowbottom - Warner
I/C: Sheldrick - Jordon - Fox - Roberts - McLean
EMGs: Florent - Francis - Cleary - Lloyd - Adams

Backline: Our balance of rebound and ability to defend is completely off at the moment, as Saturday showed. I think moving Mills back and leaving him there will help fix this. Fox also needs to play, and it exclusively should be as a defender. We have a number of players we could ask to play that defensive forward role, but few players capable of doing a good one-on-one defensive role in the backline. Blakey's defending is not currently good enough and this must be his key focus this off-season, but he is our most damaging rebound defender and he has been tried in other positions and all of the evidence points towards defence being his best position. Roberts will also play a role back there and his defensive ability has the biggest scope for improvement given his lack of experience in the backline and in general. We also need wings that have the speed and endurance to push back and defend, hence I've selected McInerney and Campell who have previously played there.

Midfield: We need to win more clearances and perhaps more importantly, we need to do a better job of limiting the damage from opposition clearances. Consequently, we simply cannot have Warner and Gulden in the midfield at the same time. They need to be trading the rover position and half forward flank/wing between one another. Rowbottom and Heeney are clearly our most important midfielders and should have the most CBAs. Hopefully Sheldrick and/or Cleary can break into the team and ease the load for Rowbottom. Heeney is the more difficult one to cover when he has his breaks, because he has a good mix of defensive and offensive orientation. I think Campbell and Jordon are two players we have most suited to playing back-up in that role at present. Perhaps Cleary too, but with Sheldrick coming in, we don't want to go too young in there.

Forwards: I'm not sure how I feel about the three tall set-up. The flaws are very clear, but I'm not actually sure dropping one of them does anything to fix it. I think it's more important that we get the structure and leading patterns right and have smalls. We were getting towelled up by gun key defenders, and that won't change if we go smaller. However, if the AFL changes to a 5-man bench next year, that would be very helpful as it would allow us to have a tall on the bench at almost all times, but still give us flexibility with match-ups if we don't have to drop one of them. Papley and Hayward are no-brainers, and I think having the luxury of Campbell and Heeney rotating on a flank would be very useful. It's a toss-up between Wicks and Cleary, I just went Wicks because of how important he was to us when we were playing our best footy early in the season.

Final thoughts: My thoughts on the forward line are probably the most subject to change depending on the trade period and our links to Stringer. If he comes in, one of Amartey/McLean comes out, but I still really hope we don't get him - I just don't think he fixes our issues there. It's just crucial that they get the structure right. We need more from our key forwards, but I'm still backing them to improve as a trio, and I think it's more important that our supply improves. Brisbane we're waltzing it out of the midfield and either lacing out players on leads, or kicking to favourable one-on-one match-ups, while we bombed the ball to their defenders all day. We could have had prime Buddy playing and it wouldn't have helped given the entries.

I actually think getting the balance right in defence and the midfield next year is the more important thing. We need to be more defensively oriented in the midfield and that means less CBAs for Gulden and Warner. And we generally need to be better at defending next year which means not relying on players like Florent, Lloyd, Campbell, etc to plug gaps in the backline, and instead relying more on our wings to give us that drive out of defence.

Lastly, we simply need to come up with a Plan B for when our corridor game has been shutdown. It's an indictment on the coaches that they weren't able to find one this year. It could be as simple as improving our ability to maintain possession and gradually take ground, which means the wingers/forward flanks/midfielders and probably McDonald of the 3 KPFs need to be working harder to find space when it's locked in our back half.

Overall, not particularly huge changes. I really don't think we're that far off it. We have our flaws, but so too does every team. Those flaws just seem a lot worse because we didn't show up to play on Saturday. It won't take major changes to get us into a position where we can compete again next year.

 

[Ticky009]

There is no Warner trade out there that makes us a better side unless you're assuming that he's 100% gone in '26, AND whatever picks we get back turn into stars.

Take the trade

 

[Kapers]

There is no Warner trade out there that makes us a better side unless you're assuming that he's 100% gone in '26, AND whatever picks we get back turn into stars.

Yes and no, if we trade Warner, it would only be for players to get with said picks.

 

[Kapers]

I think the future is the groundball. Winning the groundball all around the game is what rocketed Hawthorn up the ladder, and contributes to pressure as you always have players around the ball.

I agree with everyone, ditch the three talls, go small, and don't look back.

 

[The King!]

I think the tall forwards if you stick with that works better with a Adams, Wicks or Cleary offering some chase and pressure that was missing in September.

But I hope we are more open to trying different ideas and seeing what works month to month

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I think the tall forwards if you stick with that works better with a Adams, Wicks or Cleary offering some chase and pressure that was missing in September.

But I hope we are more open to trying different ideas and seeing what works month to month

The 3 tall forward set-up doesn’t work in high-pressure games where the mids are curtailed.

I think that’s been proven.

The whole season needs to be fundamentally about winning & preparation of something that’ll serve you well for finals. If we stick with the same setup of McL, McD and Armatey, to me it suggests that once again, we haven’t learned.

Added to that - McLean and Armatey just aren’t that good, whilst McDonald is still a work in progress who may or may not become what we all hope.

There’ll be some who say we rarely have all 3 talls on the field, which is true - but it still means we have one less small/medium forward in the 22.

 

[The King!]

The 3 tall forward set-up doesn’t work in high-pressure games where the mids are curtailed.

I think that’s been proven.

The whole season needs to be fundamentally about winning & preparation of something that’ll serve you well for finals. If we stick with the same setup of McL, McD and Armatey, to me it suggests that once again, we haven’t learned.

Added to that - McLean and Armatey just aren’t that good, whilst McDonald is still a work in progress who may or may not become what we all hope.

Does any forward set up work if the mids are smashed?

I think the being locked into the structure no matter what was the issue this year and we won't ever change it attitude. At times we should have gone smaller or whatever

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Does any forward set up work if the mids are smashed?

I think the being locked into the structure no matter what was the issue this year and we won't ever change it attitude. At times we should have gone smaller or whatever

Problem is - when the mids aren’t dominating (which is inevitable from time-to-time), the long kicks inside 50 are pointless - we can’t mark it & the ball just pings straight back out.

Granted, the effort from the mids was appalling & the defensive structure baffling - but just locking it inside attacking 50 occasionally would help!

Hayward is our only dangerous attacking weapon who also lays a tackle or two.

Sorry - still frustrated.

 

[mcs095]

Problem is - when the mids aren’t dominating (which is inevitable from time-to-time), the long kicks inside 50 are pointless - we can’t mark it & the ball just pings straight back out.

Granted, the effort from the mids was appalling & the defensive structure baffling - but just locking it inside attacking 50 occasionally would help!

Hayward is our only dangerous attacking weapon who also lays a tackle or two.

Sorry - still frustrated.

I'd love Bolton to be employed to be there every day in pre-season (or get Kirky doing it) and teaching the lot of them to tackle properly, and not leaving until they all can. Some of the attempted tackles on Saturday were utterly pathetic.

We definitely need more speed in the forward line to create additional pressure - even at the cost of one of the three talls going out. Cleary imo, if he has a good pre-season, should be there from Rd 1, given a clear role and be allowed to build into it - even with ups and downs. His few games he played he showed he had real potential.

 

[SSwans2011]

I think the 3 KPFs can work if they are surrounded by quick and dangerous smalls that can get on the move to draw their men away from the contest and provide elite forward heat when the ball hits the deck.

Adams was really just playing there to give us another midfielder and Parker was really just a fourth key forward in terms of how he was playing.

Have the 3 keys and Hayward and Papley, then one of Cleary/Wicks with Campbell, Heeney, Sheldrick, Warner, McInerney and Gulden rotating through there and the forward line will be far more dangerous. Jordon to play lockdown roles as required, just don't play Fox in that defensive forward role ever again for the love of God. Speed should be a prerequisite for all players that spend any time playing forward next year outside of the three talls.

 

[Kbroome]

I think the 3 KPFs can work if they are surrounded by quick and dangerous smalls that can get on the move to draw their men away from the contest and provide elite forward heat when the ball hits the deck.

Adams was really just playing there to give us another midfielder and Parker was really just a fourth key forward in terms of how he was playing.

Have the 3 keys and Hayward and Papley, then one of Cleary/Wicks with Campbell, Heeney, Sheldrick, Warner, McInerney and Gulden rotating through there and the forward line will be far more dangerous. Jordon to play lockdown roles as required, just don't play Fox in that defensive forward role ever again for the love of God. Speed should be a prerequisite for all players that spend any time playing forward next year outside of the three talls.

The problem with that is we don't have those 4-5 tackles per game small forwards e.g. Wicks was like 2, Cleary around the same (and isn't a small forward in reality). Therefore we probably need to get more speed out of a smaller third tall e.g. a marking medium forward

 

[caesar88]

Campbell, Florent & Cleary all must be in our forward line alongside Papley next year. It almost has to be non-negotiable.