Analysis THE "WE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN SPP" TEARS THREAD

[MrWoollie]

I'll sum it up.

Most wanted SPP.

Handful wanted Berry. I do recall plenty of crying about him playing off the HBF in the U18's rather than pure mid, which put people off.

Very few wanted Galucci. In fact the nickname Gadouche was thrown around in the leadup.

Nobody wanted English, that was fairly unanimous. And he was tipped to go to us at one point, which infuriated many.

I was one of the few pleasantly surprised with the Laverde Zac Bailey Ely Smith Venables selection actually.

You aren't too wide of the mark here DS.

Most wanted SPP. Sort of me. I wanted SPS to slip to our pick. It was never really going to happen, so SPP was my next choice. BBIM and all that.

Handful wanted Berry. Didn't light my fires. Turns out he was one of the better we could have taken.

Very few wanted Galucci. Absolutely me. Not interested.

Nobody wanted English. This was me too. I thought he was a genuine top 10 prospect and one of the best long term prospects in the draft. Was surprised a bit he wasn't taken before us, but I just didn't want us to select another ruckman that we'd end up developing, only for them to go elsewhere due lack of opportunity to grab a #1 ruck spot.

Was happy enough with Venables. And happy with how he was tracking.

 

[Rowan18]

I'll sum it up.


Most wanted SPP.

Handful wanted Berry. I do recall plenty of crying about him playing off the HBF in the U18's rather than pure mid, which put people off.

Very few wanted Galucci. In fact the nickname Gadouche was thrown around in the leadup.

Nobody wanted English, that was fairly unanimous. And he was tipped to go to us at one point, which infuriated many.



I was one of the few pleasantly surprised with the Laverde Zac Bailey Ely Smith Venables selection actually.

I still don't want English. Elite Ruckmen are over-rated, all you need is a solid big body that can break even. Look at how we worked over Gawn and Grundy in 2018 using Lycett (B grader) and Vardy (spare parts).

Nic Nat is a great guy but I sometimes wonder about how much of our salary cap he chewed up on that big contract that covered both his knee injuries. Not sure we could have enticed anyone else over, so it might be a moot point. However I look at Collingwood selling the farm to keep Grundy and reckon they would have been much better off keeping Witts and still have Treloar and Stephenson. And Phillips.

 

[RookiePick]

...Nic Nat is a great guy but I sometimes wonder about how much of our salary cap he chewed up on that big contract that covered both his knee injuries...

Piss off Sermitch you dog doo.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Laverde was taken in Duggans draft year - two years before Venables

I realze that, it's a complicated joke donkey.

 

[shooshka]

I still don't want English. Elite Ruckmen are over-rated, all you need is a solid big body that can break even. Look at how we worked over Gawn and Grundy in 2018 using Lycett (B grader) and Vardy (spare parts).

Nic Nat is a great guy but I sometimes wonder about how much of our salary cap he chewed up on that big contract that covered both his knee injuries. Not sure we could have enticed anyone else over, so it might be a moot point. However I look at Collingwood selling the farm to keep Grundy and reckon they would have been much better off keeping Witts and still have Treloar and Stephenson. And Phillips.

Nic doesn't really compare to Gawn, Grundy or English though. Their teams view them as an extra midfielder.... while it is well known in media circles that Nic doesn't take enough uncontested marks to be elite.

Whilst I agree with what you are saying in general (an elite ruckman in media terms isn't worth a premium) Nic deserves to be treated slightly differently. If he gets 15 possessions in a match my guess would be our winning % would be pretty high. In fact I'm sure our winning % goes up when he plays compared to when he doesn't.

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[WCE_phil]

Nic doesn't really compare to Gawn, Grundy or English though. Their teams view them as an extra midfielder.... while it is well known in media circles that Nic doesn't take enough uncontested marks to be elite.

Whilst I agree with what you are saying in general (an elite ruckman in media terms isn't worth a premium) Nic deserves to be treated slightly differently. If he gets 15 possessions in a match my guess would be our winning % would be pretty high. In fact I'm sure our winning % goes up when he plays compared to when he doesn't.

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You don't think that West Coast don't think of NicNat as an extra midfielder? He's just an bullocking inside midfielder not the outside accumulating type like Gawn, Grundy or English.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I still don't want English. Elite Ruckmen are over-rated, all you need is a solid big body that can break even. Look at how we worked over Gawn and Grundy in 2018 using Lycett (B grader) and Vardy (spare parts).

Nic Nat is a great guy but I sometimes wonder about how much of our salary cap he chewed up on that big contract that covered both his knee injuries. Not sure we could have enticed anyone else over, so it might be a moot point. However I look at Collingwood selling the farm to keep Grundy and reckon they would have been much better off keeping Witts and still have Treloar and Stephenson. And Phillips.

Melbourne and Pies would be paying similar coin (at least within a couple of hundred $k which isn’t much difference when salary cap is $10m+) for viney and Sidebottom, and they got worked over by a jobber in Hutchings in 2018 as well. Not sure you can put the concept of working over being effective just on ruckman.

 

[Wce17]

Looks like we could end up with SPP after 50 pages of discussion.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Hai gaiz


Shocked to be sitting here.

 

[DanWCE]

Wouldn't have believed 4.5 years after this thread was created that DV would be off the list and we were making a play to add SPP to the list.

 

[Astro7]

Love the irony in this thread, swings and roundabouts if it happens...

 

[KERRPOW]

Hai gaiz


Shocked to be sitting here.

Shooketh

 

[kranky al]

I still don't want English. Elite Ruckmen are over-rated, all you need is a solid big body that can break even. Look at how we worked over Gawn and Grundy in 2018 using Lycett (B grader) and Vardy (spare parts).

Nic Nat is a great guy but I sometimes wonder about how much of our salary cap he chewed up on that big contract that covered both his knee injuries. Not sure we could have enticed anyone else over, so it might be a moot point. However I look at Collingwood selling the farm to keep Grundy and reckon they would have been much better off keeping Witts and still have Treloar and Stephenson. And Phillips.

Go back and look at 2018 WITH nn and sam mitchell coaching the mids

 

[kranky al]

Shooketh

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Wouldn't have believed 4.5 years after this thread was created that DV would be off the list and we were making a play to add SPP to the list.

Venables’ concussion makes the whole thing rather pointless, in my view.

We’ll never know what Venables could have been if his career hadn’t been so cruelly cut short.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Venables’ concussion makes the whole thing rather pointless, in my view.

We’ll never know what Venables could have been if his career hadn’t been so cruelly cut short.

And yet we constantly still laugh at Cockburn for selecting Pitt instead of Darling.

Can't have it both ways bruv.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

And yet we constantly still laugh at Cockburn for selecting Pitt instead of Darling.

Can't have it both ways bruv.

Fair point but there’s a couple of differences. Pitt over Darling was odd at the time given Freo’s perennial need for a key forward, and even before Pitt’s health problems it was still a head scratcher.

And, most importantly, laughing at Freo is always fun.

 

[Agent93]

And yet we constantly still laugh at Cockburn for selecting Pitt instead of Darling.

Can't have it both ways bruv.

Yeah we can, Freo didn't select SPP either.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I think we can say now, with what we know Venables over SPP was the wrong choice. It happens.

Despite Venners being a premiership player. SPP arguably would've contributed more in that season, certainly in that game, and beyond.


No shame in saying it. English would've been better than both IMO, and NONE of us wanted that dopey kent at the time.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I think we can say now, with what we know Venables over SPP was the wrong choice. It happens.

Despite Venners being a premiership player. SPP arguably would've contributed more in that season, certainly in that game, and beyond.


No shame in saying it. English would've been better than both IMO, and NONE of us wanted that dopey kent at the time.

I wanted Berry, or at least I thought the mocks linking us to him at that pick would be on the money.

 

[ziad]

You don't think that West Coast don't think of NicNat as an extra midfielder? He's just an bullocking inside midfielder not the outside accumulating type like Gawn, Grundy or English.

He is our best midfielder

 

[FKASC]

Despite Venners being a premiership player. SPP arguably would've contributed more in that season, certainly in that game, and beyond.

Only because of his concussion

 

[Dark Sharks]

Only because of his concussion

Who knows. That's only guess work.

Whilst i'm a Venners fan, he wasn't exactly tracking like he could become an elite midfielder or anything. He was averaging 9 disposals a game in his third season. SPP was averaging almost 19 and 5 tackles a game at that point before Venners got killed in 2019.

We'll never know. If Venners had remained healthy he might've developed rapidly, but the hit rate we've had with midfielders, i doubt it.

 

[FKASC]

Who knows. That's only guess work.

Whilst i'm a Venners fan, he wasn't exactly tracking like he could become an elite midfielder or anything. He was averaging 9 disposals a game in his third season. SPP was averaging almost 19 and 5 tackles a game at that point before Venners got killed in 2019.

We'll never know. If Venners had remained healthy he might've developed rapidly, but the hit rate we've had with midfielders, i doubt it.

Yeah it is guess work campaigner, that’s why I pointed it out.

 

[DanWCE]

Who knows. That's only guess work.

Whilst i'm a Venners fan, he wasn't exactly tracking like he could become an elite midfielder or anything. He was averaging 9 disposals a game in his third season. SPP was averaging almost 19 and 5 tackles a game at that point before Venners got killed in 2019.

We'll never know. If Venners had remained healthy he might've developed rapidly, but the hit rate we've had with midfielders, i doubt it.

I think the problem was hoping he would ever become a midfielder. He's a classy forward flanker. That's what his juniors illustrated, and that's all his AFL career was panning out to be.