Review The Week in Between - now we wait. Selection talk and other guff.

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ashep said:
I know a few are down on Amartey but I thought he really cracked in, and just couldn't get on the end of it against one of the best defences in the comp.

And it's just one moment, but the decision to break off from Paps and put that small nudge on Taylor to get himself open was pretty amazing.

I just can't see us changing our structure at this stage of the year.
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agreed ... no changes, unless it's swapping campbell in for mcinerney ...
it's a bigger risk changing the structure at this late stage, particularly accounting for the morale factor yesterday's win would give the players ...
mcdonald, mclean and amartey don't have to star, but they all did a bit yesterday, in their different ways, and they'll continue to do so
we're still coming out of that shite period, there's an argument to be made that our confidence is still a bit bruised, and that might have been an issue yesterday when we couldn't take control early even though we weren't playing badly ... it was as much a frustration thing as anything else, compounded with mistakes
the last quarter, just as in the collingwood game, would've shown (again) just what the team is capable of when things click, when they apply pressure and keep running
we've also got improvement in us ... and that kind of last quarter comeback to win a huge finals game will be important for self-belief
two games ...

(and to be honest, based on yesterday, does anyone really think heeney's going to let us get beaten?)
 

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I think that magnificent win papered over a few cracks.

I think we lacked leg speed in the game which limited the pressure we could apply.

I think Fox should play remembering the near BOG game he played for us in the 22GF.

It breaks my heart to say that Parker should be highest on the list to make way for him.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk
 
Jack Lord said:
JMac can only get better. Gives us so much at his best.I reckon play him.
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Which was the exact argument with playing Reid in the 22 GF, they rolled the dice and lost and everyone on here lost their minds. I'm not saying Jussie is in anywhere near the shape Reid was in, but the outcome, based on yesterdays performance, was pretty much the same.
Jussie was terrible yesterday, he struggled to move and I could kick it better than he was and we were virtually a player down such was his ineffectiveness.
There's no second chances from now on, everyone screamed about taking an obviously injured player into a GF so we shouldn't make the same mistake again and play an obviously ineffective player in a prelim.
I love Jussie and when fit he's a vital component of the team, but he's not fit and unfortunately I think he should be the unlucky one to miss.
 
I believe we’ll play Port in the PF.

The same Port that beat us by 112 points 6 weeks ago.

112 points!

So, what will have changed by the time the prelim rolls around?

Well - the team that played Port contained Francis, Ladhams, Adams, Fox, Wicks and Corey Warner.

None of them could reasonably be considered for the prelim (yes, that incidues Fox and Adams).

Conversely, the team that fateful night was missing Melican, Campbell, Armatey & Papley. All of them will play.

That leaves only the question of McInerney (who didn’t play), Parker (who was the sub) & Cleary (who didn’t play).

The more I think about it - Parker plays. Horne-Fancis brutalised us last time & Parker is probably our one player that can go with him for strength in the middle.

McI was worryingly poor on the weekend. There’s no second chances from here & I see Cleary as the better bet in the sub role.

The DQ Prelim Team:

Campbell into the starting XXII, Cleary to sub, McInerney dropped.
 
Please stop suggesting to drop JMac.

He’s absolutely best 22. Was underdone yesterday, given, but with two weeks ahead to focus on fitness, he’ll be fine.

I genuinely don’t recall any of McLeans touches from last night. I know that Amarteys 11th hour goal came from his 2nd kick. And Logan was ‘about’ but not overly impactful.

The forward line is where optimizations need to happen. Not sure Adams is a solution here.
 
sthmelb_dimmies said:
Please stop suggesting to drop JMac.

He’s absolutely best 22. Was underdone yesterday, given, but with two weeks ahead to focus on fitness, he’ll be fine.

I genuinely don’t recall any of McLeans touches from last night. I know that Amarteys 11th hour goal came from his 2nd kick. And Logan was ‘about’ but not overly impactful.

The forward line is where optimizations need to happen. Not sure Adams is a solution here.
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He's best 22 when fit and in form. I'm not sure he is either at the moment. Could be a liability on the MCG if we make it. Was clear GWS were trying to expose him. Hard calls need to be made. I'll always prioritise healthy and in-form players. We can't keep making the same mistakes over and over again in the 2 most important games of the year left.
 
Punts said:
Much rather port

Hawks are playing unbelievable footy and there pressure will be a concern imo
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Same. Worried about going too tall/slow up forward if we play against them. They destroyed the bulldogs talls defensively and cut them apart on the rebound. We will need clinical forward pressure to take their game off them.
 
Jack Lord said:
One quarter of Braedan was fantastic. I'm just imagining what four could produce?
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He could easily be better over a quarter to a half at this stage the sub is a specialised role look at the Hawks using Bruest there
 
Kiama Chris said:
Yep. And Parker spent some time in the middle as well. Hayward has been more effective this year having lost the responsibility of being the negating forward and Jordon adds more than just the tagging. I think we'll stick with the structure next year and the big question will be who is "someone else"?
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The someone else could be on the list already in Sheldrick, Cleary, Mitchell.
Although with the success Jordon has had there might be something happen in the trade period where the Swans can nab a good fit for that role.
 
The Amartey question is a big one for me. Watching him closely when the ball was coming in during the final, I was shocked by how static he is. He wrestles and feigns leads but rarely offers one. His forward craft is lacking in terms of offering blocks to teammates like Parker or Hayward. The worst is he rarely leads to the ball 40-50m out but waits for the long bomb and the inevitable spoil or mark by his three surrounding defenders. This was really exposed against GWS's three 190cm+ athletic a-grade defenders (Taylor, Idun, Himmelberg).

I can only assume this is due to a coaching instruction to Amartey that his main job is to crash packs and get the ball to ground and, for better or worse, Amartey has fully taken on this "defensive forward" mindset. I think this applies to McLean too, although he occasionally takes the opportunity to clunk a critical mark. The exception seems to be centre bounces where the disorganized defence and the even numbers allows Amartey to take the occasional mark from a hack kick out of the middle.

But, gee, I wish Amartey would take the game on more in general play. I hate to say it but his play style is too friendly when he needs to pick moments to be more ruthless. Provide an aggressive lead out to the 50. Franklin, even in his final season, was a master at recognizing those moments and the chaos a lead from an athletic tall forward can cause to an oppositions defense - it creates opportunities elsewhere, makes things unpredictable. But, unfortunately, I think Amartey will always be b-grade unless he develops that competitiveness and game sense which is hard to do.

I feel like that's something you can't really learn - I feel like Campbell has it. Heeney has it more than anyone in the competition right now. Franklin was maybe the greatest of all time for knowing when to seize a moment. I never felt like Dean Towers or Jesse White or James Bell, no offense to them as athletes and footballers, had it. They had the right attributes but they didn't have that hunger.

Then again, on a team level, it's all sort of mostly worked out in terms of results so far, hasn't it? Amartey's main purpose is the create stoppages and boundaries where our dangerous goal-scoring mids get looks - how many incredibly slick goals have we seen from forward 50 stoppages this year? One from Errol won us a game a few weeks back. How many of those were because Amartey or McClean had earlier provided a "defensive" contest? No one would remember, probably. I don't. But being crashed into in pack marks takes a physical toll. It can be tiring and maybe that's why we're running out games well - because the opposition defense is getting tired.

Would I rather have a more aggressive forward line, yes probably. But, at the end of the day, no one could argue that the approach we're taking isn't getting the ball into the hands of our star mids in goal scoring position. We're the best in the competition at it and I'm sure the way Amartey and McClean play is in some way responsible for that but I'm not sure I fully appreciate the complete strategy yet and probably won't until we win the flag.
 
kneecapper said:
The Amartey question is a big one for me. Watching him closely when the ball was coming in during the final, I was shocked by how static he is. He wrestles and feigns leads but rarely offers one. His forward craft is lacking in terms of offering blocks to teammates like Parker or Hayward. The worst is he rarely leads to the ball 40-50m out but waits for the long bomb and the inevitable spoil or mark by his three surrounding defenders. This was really exposed against GWS's three 190cm+ athletic a-grade defenders (Taylor, Idun, Himmelberg).

I can only assume this is due to a coaching instruction to Amartey that his main job is to crash packs and get the ball to ground and, for better or worse, Amartey has fully taken on this "defensive forward" mindset. I think this applies to McLean too, although he occasionally takes the opportunity to clunk a critical mark. The exception seems to be centre bounces where the disorganized defence and the even numbers allows Amartey to take the occasional mark from a hack kick out of the middle.

But, gee, I wish Amartey would take the game on more in general play. I hate to say it but his play style is too friendly when he needs to pick moments to be more ruthless. Provide an aggressive lead out to the 50. Franklin, even in his final season, was a master at recognizing those moments and the chaos a lead from an athletic tall forward can cause to an oppositions defense - it creates opportunities elsewhere, makes things unpredictable. But, unfortunately, I think Amartey will always be b-grade unless he develops that competitiveness and game sense which is hard to do.

I feel like that's something you can't really learn - I feel like Campbell has it. Heeney has it more than anyone in the competition right now. Franklin was maybe the greatest of all time for knowing when to seize a moment. I never felt like Dean Towers or Jesse White or James Bell, no offense to them as athletes and footballers, had it. They had the right attributes but they didn't have that hunger.

Then again, on a team level, it's all sort of mostly worked out in terms of results so far, hasn't it? Amartey's main purpose is the create stoppages and boundaries where our dangerous goal-scoring mids get looks - how many incredibly slick goals have we seen from forward 50 stoppages this year? One from Errol won us a game a few weeks back. How many of those were because Amartey or McClean had earlier provided a "defensive" contest? No one would remember, probably. I don't. But being crashed into in pack marks takes a physical toll. It can be tiring and maybe that's why we're running out games well - because the opposition defense is getting tired.

Would I rather have a more aggressive forward line, yes probably. But, at the end of the day, no one could argue that the approach we're taking isn't getting the ball into the hands of our star mids in goal scoring position. We're the best in the competition at it and I'm sure the way Amartey and McClean play is in some way responsible for that but I'm not sure I fully appreciate the complete strategy yet and probably won't until we win the flag.
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I think you are spot on with what Amartey and McLeans role in the forward line is. IMO it has more to do with setting up defensively though and trying to keep the ball locked into the forward half. Although that really didn't happen at all against GWS.
 

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SwansLifer said:
I think you are spot on with what Amartey and McLeans role in the forward line is. IMO it has more to do with setting up defensively though and trying to keep the ball locked into the forward half. Although that really didn't happen at all against GWS.
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It's our biggest Achilles heel and it was completely severed in the Port game. The better the opposition defense works as a unit, the more we're exposed.

Worryingly, I'll add, our forward line was also our biggest Achilles heel in 22 against the Cats. Franklin on his last legs and Sam Reid unable to jump. Geelong smothered our forwards defensively and GWS did the same for three quarters in this last game.

We're missing that Hogan style forward who made our defenders nervous all game. I feel like Logan could be that for us eventually but he's still developing.
 
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kneecapper said:
The Amartey question is a big one for me. Watching him closely when the ball was coming in during the final, I was shocked by how static he is. He wrestles and feigns leads but rarely offers one. His forward craft is lacking in terms of offering blocks to teammates like Parker or Hayward. The worst is he rarely leads to the ball 40-50m out but waits for the long bomb and the inevitable spoil or mark by his three surrounding defenders. This was really exposed against GWS's three 190cm+ athletic a-grade defenders (Taylor, Idun, Himmelberg).

I can only assume this is due to a coaching instruction to Amartey that his main job is to crash packs and get the ball to ground and, for better or worse, Amartey has fully taken on this "defensive forward" mindset. I think this applies to McLean too, although he occasionally takes the opportunity to clunk a critical mark. The exception seems to be centre bounces where the disorganized defence and the even numbers allows Amartey to take the occasional mark from a hack kick out of the middle.

But, gee, I wish Amartey would take the game on more in general play. I hate to say it but his play style is too friendly when he needs to pick moments to be more ruthless. Provide an aggressive lead out to the 50. Franklin, even in his final season, was a master at recognizing those moments and the chaos a lead from an athletic tall forward can cause to an oppositions defense - it creates opportunities elsewhere, makes things unpredictable. But, unfortunately, I think Amartey will always be b-grade unless he develops that competitiveness and game sense which is hard to do.

I feel like that's something you can't really learn - I feel like Campbell has it. Heeney has it more than anyone in the competition right now. Franklin was maybe the greatest of all time for knowing when to seize a moment. I never felt like Dean Towers or Jesse White or James Bell, no offense to them as athletes and footballers, had it. They had the right attributes but they didn't have that hunger.

Then again, on a team level, it's all sort of mostly worked out in terms of results so far, hasn't it? Amartey's main purpose is the create stoppages and boundaries where our dangerous goal-scoring mids get looks - how many incredibly slick goals have we seen from forward 50 stoppages this year? One from Errol won us a game a few weeks back. How many of those were because Amartey or McClean had earlier provided a "defensive" contest? No one would remember, probably. I don't. But being crashed into in pack marks takes a physical toll. It can be tiring and maybe that's why we're running out games well - because the opposition defense is getting tired.

Would I rather have a more aggressive forward line, yes probably. But, at the end of the day, no one could argue that the approach we're taking isn't getting the ball into the hands of our star mids in goal scoring position. We're the best in the competition at it and I'm sure the way Amartey and McClean play is in some way responsible for that but I'm not sure I fully appreciate the complete strategy yet and probably won't until we win the flag.
Click to expand...
I feel like on the weekend every chance to Amartey got he tried to take away Taylor's clear run at the ball whether it be on the ground or in the air because he was just trying to get the ball to the ground where Swans had the advantage. GWS definitely were too tall to allow Sydney to challenge in the air so the tall forwards just needed to sacrifice their game to get it to the smalls
 
Punts said:
I agree we lack pace and pressure

I’m not a fan of the 3 talls and Parker in the front

It’s a liability stage imo
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Yeah there is just not enough ground pressure.
Out of the 3 talls and Parker they had 1 tackle inside 50. Amartey had the solitary 1.

Campbell had 2 in his time on the ground.

Cadman, Jones, and Daniels had the same amount of tackles inside 50 that the Swans did as a team.
 
kneecapper said:
The Amartey question is a big one for me. Watching him closely when the ball was coming in during the final, I was shocked by how static he is. He wrestles and feigns leads but rarely offers one. His forward craft is lacking in terms of offering blocks to teammates like Parker or Hayward. The worst is he rarely leads to the ball 40-50m out but waits for the long bomb and the inevitable spoil or mark by his three surrounding defenders. This was really exposed against GWS's three 190cm+ athletic a-grade defenders (Taylor, Idun, Himmelberg).

I can only assume this is due to a coaching instruction to Amartey that his main job is to crash packs and get the ball to ground and, for better or worse, Amartey has fully taken on this "defensive forward" mindset. I think this applies to McLean too, although he occasionally takes the opportunity to clunk a critical mark. The exception seems to be centre bounces where the disorganized defence and the even numbers allows Amartey to take the occasional mark from a hack kick out of the middle.

But, gee, I wish Amartey would take the game on more in general play. I hate to say it but his play style is too friendly when he needs to pick moments to be more ruthless. Provide an aggressive lead out to the 50. Franklin, even in his final season, was a master at recognizing those moments and the chaos a lead from an athletic tall forward can cause to an oppositions defense - it creates opportunities elsewhere, makes things unpredictable. But, unfortunately, I think Amartey will always be b-grade unless he develops that competitiveness and game sense which is hard to do.

I feel like that's something you can't really learn - I feel like Campbell has it. Heeney has it more than anyone in the competition right now. Franklin was maybe the greatest of all time for knowing when to seize a moment. I never felt like Dean Towers or Jesse White or James Bell, no offense to them as athletes and footballers, had it. They had the right attributes but they didn't have that hunger.

Then again, on a team level, it's all sort of mostly worked out in terms of results so far, hasn't it? Amartey's main purpose is the create stoppages and boundaries where our dangerous goal-scoring mids get looks - how many incredibly slick goals have we seen from forward 50 stoppages this year? One from Errol won us a game a few weeks back. How many of those were because Amartey or McClean had earlier provided a "defensive" contest? No one would remember, probably. I don't. But being crashed into in pack marks takes a physical toll. It can be tiring and maybe that's why we're running out games well - because the opposition defense is getting tired.

Would I rather have a more aggressive forward line, yes probably. But, at the end of the day, no one could argue that the approach we're taking isn't getting the ball into the hands of our star mids in goal scoring position. We're the best in the competition at it and I'm sure the way Amartey and McClean play is in some way responsible for that but I'm not sure I fully appreciate the complete strategy yet and probably won't until we win the flag.
Click to expand...
The thing i've noticed about Amartey is that he tries to find his defender and get body on him in an attempt to work him under the ball - now that ain't a bad technique, but only under certain circumstances when you find yourself clearly on the right side of your opponent in relation to where the ball is going to drop. The problem with Amartey is he tries to find contact no matter where the ball is going to drop, hence why he doesn't commit to leads and always doubles back onto his opponent. I noticed it particularly against Adelaide the other week, there were quite a few times where he had space on his opponent and instead of attacking the ball at the drop, he stopped, propped, found his opponent with his arm and then tried to lean him under it.

Bloke just needs to jump at the ball and not worry about his opponent because that's what the defender wants majority of the time in order to affect a spoil. If he just attacked the ball he'd be two steps ahead of his opponent most of the time. And if he wants to continue being a body on body mark, then he needs to shove his opponent out of the way like he's attempting to put them through a wall instead of letting him affect the contest.

Mclean on the other hand attacks the ball but it has to be dropped on his head for him to be a chance.

And Logan always tries to work his body around his opponents and reach in for the mark (probably because he lacks the strength).

All 3 approach a contested marking situation differently with styles that are indirect and unfortunately limited, and the result is 3 key forwards who struggle to take a grab.

Hayward and Parker are the only ones in there who attack the ball in an attempt to mark, and heeney when up forward. This is why i'd be taking Stringer everyday of the week over our 3 talls. At least Logan and and Mclean offer other things to the team but Amartey has not been AFL standard. He might be throwing his weight around at ground level which is great, but atm it is not making up for his inability to mark the ball.
 
zyzzbruh said:
The thing i've noticed about Amartey is that he tries to find his defender and get body on him in an attempt to work him under the ball - now that ain't a bad technique, but only under certain circumstances when you find yourself clearly on the right side of your opponent in relation to where the ball is going to drop. The problem with Amartey is he tries to find contact no matter where the ball is going to drop, hence why he doesn't commit to leads and always doubles back onto his opponent. I noticed it particularly against Adelaide the other week, there were quite a few times where he had space on his opponent and instead of attacking the ball at the drop, he stopped, propped, found his opponent with his arm and then tried to lean him under it.

Bloke just needs to jump at the ball and not worry about his opponent because that's what the defender wants majority of the time in order to affect a spoil. If he just attacked the ball he'd be two steps ahead of his opponent most of the time. And if he wants to continue being a body on body mark, then he needs to shove his opponent out of the way like he's attempting to put them through a wall instead of letting him affect the contest.

Mclean on the other hand attacks the ball but it has to be dropped on his head for him to be a chance.

And Logan always tries to work his body around his opponents and reach in for the mark (probably because he lacks the strength).

All 3 approach a contested marking situation differently with styles that are indirect and unfortunately limited, and the result is 3 key forwards who struggle to take a grab.

Hayward and Parker are the only ones in there who attack the ball in an attempt to mark, and heeney when up forward. This is why i'd be taking Stringer everyday of the week over our 3 talls. At least Logan and and Mclean offer other things to the team but Amartey has not been AFL standard. He might be throwing his weight around at ground level which is great, but atm it is not making up for his inability to mark the ball.
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McLean offers enough with his ruck work that the odd quieter game can be excused. For me he's a pass mark on the season and most games he's played this year. He's not the most mobile athlete but he's competitive and hungry and gets up the ground to provide an outlet at important moments.

On a more positive note, I think the win on Saturday showed a lot more resilience and maturity in terms of sustained effort. In previous years I could imagine our younger brigade lowering their heads and submitting to a 40-50 point loss but they didn't and they earned themselves a prelim as a result. Even Amartey seized his moment when it was there for the taking but those flashes of brilliance are what make him such a frustrating prospect. The only thing holding him back is himself.
 
Jewelsbon said:
My husband thought I was having a heart attack 🤣 I mean seriously he thought I was having a full on heart attack in the last 5 minutes. I was sweating profusely (which is not a normal thing for me), I couldn't talk, my breathing was erratic...

But no, it was just Swans finals footy!
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I can relate to that haha , I went a bit manic myself, running uncontrollably up and down the corridor, I just couldn’t stop, my little dog, just running with me barking his head off, everything was out of control 🤣😂
 
fit 4 life said:
I can relate to that haha , I went a bit manic myself, running uncontrollably up and down the corridor, I just couldn’t stop, my little dog, just running with me barking his head off, everything was out of control 🤣😂
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When they say the stands were jumping let me tell you they REALLY were. It was like being in the middle of an earthquake.
 
900+ meters gained by Jake Lloyd vs GWS. I feel the extra attention to Nick and Juzzy's injury has allowed him some opportunities and he's taken it with both hands.

Super game from him.
 
If they play Jmac after his 'performance', after what happened with Sam Reid, Callum Mills, Mcveigh. The swans should be investigated for match fixing.
 

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