The Worsfold coaching situation mega-thread, now 3 times as mega!

[kranky al]

well thats where we differ - hawthorn have a superb bunch of players that should have utterly dominated - but have done bugger all except for that one year - talent wise if you mark each player from one to ten then add up the results they would be streets ahead of our 06 team - i would say the same about st kilda not streets ahead but ahead.

i would be furious at what they have done in the last couple of years. id want clarkson out.


woosha - like malthouse at collingwood deserves to get a chance to see his vision out - if it doesnt work then fine - move him on

i see us as a club spoiled by success - its like we cannot accept the realities of the game - if there was no equalisation measures in place - then yeah - id want his head - but its a socialist game now. what i dont want to see is us down the bottom like carlton or richmond for years at a time - thats why this is his last chance.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Funny thing is Malthouse spent two. Just two years outside the eight. Woosha has had three and they have been worse than Collingwoods two. Midseason we will know if Woosha will be getting another contract.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

Funny thing is Malthouse spent two. Just two years outside the eight. Woosha has had three and they have been worse than Collingwoods two. Midseason we will know if Woosha will be getting another contract.

Yeah you just can't compare Worsfold's coaching performance to Malthouse's at all. Malthouse is a legend who has re-defined himself on many occasions whilst Worsfold has struggled to coach without Cousins, Judd etc getting his team's chestnuts out of the fire.

 

[Matera92]

Yeah you just can't compare Worsfold's coaching performance to Malthouse's at all. Malthouse is a legend who has re-defined himself on many occasions whilst Worsfold has struggled to coach without Cousins, Judd etc getting his team's chestnuts out of the fire.

The hypocrisy from some of the posters on this board is hilarious at times. You've no problem heaping the blame on him for the teams poor performance yet you won't attribute any of his past success to his coaching ability.

Posts like these are just laughable.

 

[Denton52]

There's no doubt Woosha isn't exactly a Rommel in the tactical department but to balance that out... you have to remember that when he came, he was like a messiah for the team. He brought something that's hard to measure. I would say virtually every player on that list was committed and got the best out of themselves over that period. Even a Buckley/Hird/Voss can't match the 'favourite son' power Worsfold brought.

Everyone knows he was a motivator and leader but the question is whether that 'magic' can ever come back.

My guess is if he flukes the right team selection (he got close finally by the end of 10) then we might see a strong improvement. Back in 02, the 22 picked itself... not so simple now.

 

[spEKTre]

(*In my experience, the label "fanboi" has been aptly used to describe certain posters who have the blinkers on and can't handle the truth of the club's predicament.) Fanboi's shouldn't even be mentioning reasoned arguments. The blinkers skewer the perspective.

this.

 

[SwiftforPM]

Reply to Kranky Al from Worsfold Mega-thread part 2, post #1008.

The Worsfold thread has opposing views, but it's the pro-Worsfold crowd that can't accept an opposing view. They try and deflect for Worsfold on every opposing post and thought to their own.

Who's this "you lot" you're talking about? I've only made a few comments throughout both huge Worsfold threads. That hardly makes me part of this "you lot", that I'm supposedly in. I'm an outsider looking in. I stayed out of it for the most part. My comment was directed at people like you who try and fire up the fanboi's - and yes, fanboi's is an appropriate term for your ilk.

Worsfold stayed because it's what's good for him. He wouldn't do it otherwise. To say he had a higher motive is nothing more than your opinion. Typical fanboi garbage of trying to create a compatable line of reasoning.

So what if we held a cup recently, is that supposed to work as some kind of ludicrous browny points system?
When things go wrong, are we as fans not to expect better of a professional organization? I follow the WCE football team, that doesn't mean I'm a defender of the people that run it and make the decisions. I'll leave the mindless drone ramblings to you and those who join in the circle jerk.

(*In my experience, the label "fanboi" has been aptly used to describe certain posters who have the blinkers on and can't handle the truth of the club's predicament.) Fanboi's shouldn't even be mentioning reasoned arguments. The blinkers skewer the perspective.

Pathetic! Everyone is entitled to an OP, associating those with a different opinion to circle jerking is just a sad reflection of your mentality.

 

[stralia]

I mean, he had the best player I have ever seen at the peak of his powers at his disposal and he still only snared one premiership by a point.

Having one of the greatest players to play the game doesn't mean you can just piss in flags willy nilly.

 

[bodazoka]

I mean, he had the best player I have ever seen at the peak of his powers at his disposal and he still only snared one premiership by a point.

Team game...

You = Trolling

 

[Marlin01]

I mean, he had the best player I have ever seen at the peak of his powers at his disposal and he still only snared one premiership by a point.

Pavlich is one of, if not, the best player I have seen and what does Fremantle have to show for it... N O T H I N G.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

Funny thing is Malthouse spent two. Just two years outside the eight. Woosha has had three and they have been worse than Collingwoods two. Midseason we will know if Woosha will be getting another contract.

The other important part of the Collingwood comparison is that after they had those 2 bad years they didn't make excuses and blame external factors or factors beyond their control and blame the supporters and say that they are spoiled. The people who ran the club were seething and they had a review - a real review that looked at everything and everyone and made massive changes to their recruitment and development program and even restricted Malthouses responsibilities to strictly coaching and kept him out of trying to dominate draft discussions.

When Collingwood had those 2 bad years they recognised they had problems, had a real review that followed a credible process and made significant changes. Contrast that with us - we are blaming everything and everyone else outside the club, refuse to recognise the size of the crisis, refuse to have a genuine review but instead have Clayton's review led by Worsfold and Nisbett that just sought to find a coupe of peripheral and expendable figures (assistant coaches and fitness staff) to blame and sack and make no significant changes. No significant changes whatsoever.

If we want a recovery like Collingwood we have to make hard decisions and run our club in such a manner that it strives for excellence and is uncompromising like Collingwood. Not an old boys back slapping network that hides in it's fortress, protected from consequences and ramifications by virtue of the false economy generated by our impregnable financial position.

 

[Keys]

What were the significant changes that Collingwood made?

Changed some assitants, changed the fitness staff, beefed up recruitment etc

Kept the coach but.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

What were the significant changes that Collingwood made?

Changed some assitants, changed the fitness staff, beefed up recruitment etc

Kept the coach but.

They totally over hauled their recruiting and development programs by greatly expanding them with manpower, getting the best people to add to them, having a good look at their program, method and philosophy. They got aggressive at going after other clubs players (they might not have gotten any but they tried). They had a good long look at their playing list. I am sure they had good long look at Malthouse aswell.

It's not just the outcome, it's the process. They looked at everything and they put a rocket up everyone at the club and made sure they got the message - this is not good enough. So sure they kept Malthouse. But the point is that they had a very thorough review and they used a very well considered and scientific process.

If the people running the eagles were more competent like say Brian Cook and change oriented and they weren't IMO operating on the basis of political alliances and mateships and they had a review that i thought was well conducted and impartial and they then came out and said

"We had a good long look at John Worsfold with a balanced view, we considered all the factors - positive and negative. We weighed up the fact that he has been here for 10 years and staleness and fatigue might be an issue, the fact that not only one or two but a majority our young players are not developing in the way we want, that the game plan looks well short of being effective, the fact that the effort level and intensity is not what we want it to be. We also weighed up the positives <insert whatever you think the poistives of Worsfold's coaching are>. And we came to the conclusion that the best thing for the club is for John to continue in the role for at least another year for the following reasons ..."

then i might be hapy with that. Because even if they came to a different conclusion than me at least they are looking at the same factors and facts i am looking at. At least theri eyes are open and they are following an intelligent proicess. At least they are open to change and willing to implement it. And therefore, if that was the case if they are wrong they will quickly recognise it and change course. But when people refuse to acknowledge the facts and realities, refuse to articulate a plan, blame everything on external factors, refuse to give reasons for he decisions they make, refuse to recognise the size and urgency of the problems etc etc then i have no confidence in the decisions they are making.

They won't have a real review because they might not like what it finds. They won't articulate a plan because they don't have one. They won't give reasons for decisions because they don't have intelligent reasons. They won't recognise the problems because they don't know what to do about those problems. They won't look in the mirror because they might not like what they see. It's easier to blame external factors.

 

[Keys]

I agree with a fair bit of that.

Certainly, I would expect that the club have had/is having a serious internal review of what is going wrong and how to improve those aspects of the club that we are deficient in. I don't necessarily believe that such a review needs to be made public knowledge - it should be expected and in reality should be done every year irrespective of where we finish, as such we don't necessarily need to be told about it.

I'm a big believer in actions speaking louder than words and therefore don't concern myself whether or not the club comes out and says we are doing this or doing that. Would much prefer that they just go about whatever is necessary to improve our fortunes.

Last year was our worst ever result, so like you, I sincerely hope that next year we show significant improvement. I have my concerns as to whether or not the improvement comes but will reserve my judgement until next season comes around.

Another year like the last three and I can't see Woosh having is contract renewed and I doubt few, if any, other posters would.

 

[Lach72]

Pavlich is one of, if not, the best player I have seen and what does Fremantle have to show for it... N O T H I N G.

Yes?

 

[Lach72]

I agree with a fair bit of that.

Certainly, I would expect that the club have had/is having a serious internal review of what is going wrong and how to improve those aspects of the club that we are deficient in. I don't necessarily believe that such a review needs to be made public knowledge - it should be expected and in reality should be done every year irrespective of where we finish, as such we don't necessarily need to be told about it.

I'm a big believer in actions speaking louder than words and therefore don't concern myself whether or not the club comes out and says we are doing this or doing that. Would much prefer that they just go about whatever is necessary to improve our fortunes.

Last year was our worst ever result, so like you, I sincerely hope that next year we show significant improvement. I have my concerns as to whether or not the improvement comes but will reserve my judgement until next season comes around.

Another year like the last three and I can't see Woosh having is contract renewed and I doubt few, if any, other posters would.

It could be his faith in those recruiters, and therefore the players recruited is misplaced.

I can't for the life of me work out also, how you manage to get so many young blokes with OP

 

[Clay Davis]

Pavlich is one of, if not, the best player I have seen and what does Fremantle have to show for it... N O T H I N G.

Best player you've ever seen? I wouldn't even rate him in the top five I've ever seen and I'm under 30.

 

[Mattman93]

It could be his faith in those recruiters, and therefore the players recruited is misplaced.

I can't for the life of me work out also, how you manage to get so many young blokes with OP

I think it's that in the last couple of years the club has really dropped the ball in terms of player development, but we're still very confident and back ourselves in to draft players with OP and get them over it no problems. On top of this, I think that a lot of the guys are developing or exacerbating OP issues upon getting to the club.
Not sure what's going on with our fitness/physio staff tbh.

 

[Clay Davis]

I think Mayneman has a point. Judd is hardly the player he was when he was with West Coast, yet he's taken a complete basket case in Carlton from being perennial spooners to finalists.

Take Judd out of Carlton and they'd be back in the bottom four.

 

[Marlin01]

Best player you've ever seen? I wouldn't even rate him in the top five I've ever seen and I'm under 30.

Firstly, I said one of. Secondly, name me another player who can be considered All-Australian at FB,CHB, midfield, CHF or FF. If the All-Australian Team was chosen to play in a real game, against real opposition, he'd be the first chosen every time.

 

[Mattman93]

Firstly, I said one of. Secondly, name me another player who can be considered All-Australian at FB,CHB, midfield, CHF or FF. If the All-Australian Team was chosen to play in a real game, against real opposition, he'd be the first chosen every time.

Bit far IMO.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Chris Scott to Geelong. Another one passes us by.

 

[SwiftforPM]

Chris Scott to Geelong. Another one passes us by.

Passes you by. Speak for yourself, not anyone else.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Passes you by. Speak for yourself, not anyone else.

Alternatives exist but Scott would have been a great candidate.

 

[bigburger]

Alternatives exist but Scott would have been a great candidate.

Really...why?