The Worsfold coaching situation mega-thread, now 3 times as mega!

[Pat_Footy]

Swift has time on his side but what about Masten? Ebert did do some good things this season but canceled that out with some ordinary stuff.

Kennedy, Hurn and LeCras are naturally gifted players and it wasn't our coaching staff that got them up and running. Whoever changed Kennedy's run-up during the season needs a backhander though.

You can't have it both ways. All the players performing are naturally gifted and the stragglers are coached badly... Lecras was taken as a low draft pick so the club saw something and worked with it.

Masten has been a dissapointment - we all know it. We're all just hoping injuries have played a big part. He was a talented junior, I wouldn't lose hope.

Ebert has been good imo. Ebert has been leading the stats at the club. Those skill errors will be turned around. Anyone remember Adam Hunter??? He was shocking when he first started. Kept getting run down from behind like Tom Swift is atm.

Broadbridge may well have been a great skills coach. He was probably the best person for the job. Unfortunately, skills where the biggest downfall of the Eagles last year and the club knows it has to be seen doing something. Even though skills may be directly proportional to the inexperience on the field.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

It seems I am not alone.
So with your logic if we improve next year it has nothing to do with the coach and if we don't it's all to do with the coach.
Try thinking for a change!

Worsfold's coaching is deplorable, he has gotten progressively worse since 2006. If we improve next year it means the players have improved and maybe the coaching from the new assistants has helped but it certainly won't be from Woosha. You just have to realize that he has run his race, he done a great job in 2002 getting the club up from the doldrums and moving Hunter forward and back in 05 and 06 but his coaching was never strong and when those great players left, it became exposed. The list management from 2006 has been crap too and he is surely part of that process, I mean c'mon 3 years for Hansen at the end of 08?

Can you see us improving next year? with all the other teams near or around us on the ladder at least showing a bit of promise? Essendon will be a lot more improved with Hird in charge, Richmond have some talented youngsters and will continue to rise and Gold Coast have great players plus the best 18, 19 year olds in the land surely they will do well under McKenna. I admire your optimisim but I can' see us winning more than 6 or 7 games in 2011.

 

[Mattman93]

Swift has time on his side but what about Masten? Ebert did do some good things this season but canceled that out with some ordinary stuff.

So Swift has time on his side, but Ebert is done for, even though there's only 3 months in age between the two?

Kennedy, Hurn and LeCras are naturally gifted players and it wasn't our coaching staff that got them up and running. Whoever changed Kennedy's run-up during the season needs a backhander though.

Oh ok, so when a player doesn't come on it's poor coaching but when one shows a bit it's solely because of their natural talent?
Notice how guys who are simply "naturally talented" and are emerging as key players at the club like Hurn, Lecca and JK are all around the 23-24 year old mark? Maybe we should wait until Masto, Ebert and Swift hit that mark before we judge them, or are they just all done for?

 

[Max zero]

Worsfold's coaching is deplorable, he has gotten progressively worse since 2006. If we improve next year it means the players have improved and maybe the coaching from the new assistants has helped but it certainly won't be from Woosha. You just have to realize that he has run his race, he done a great job in 2002 getting the club up from the doldrums and moving Hunter forward and back in 05 and 06 but his coaching was never strong and when those great players left, it became exposed.

Can you see us improving next year? with all the other teams near or around us on the ladder at least showing a bit of promise? Essendon will be a lot more improved with Hird in charge, Richmond have some talented youngsters and will continue to rise and Gold Coast have great players plus the best 18, 19 year olds in the land surely they will do well under McKenna. I admire your optimisim but I can' see us winning more than 6 or 7 games in 2011.

So if we go worse its Worsfold's fault but if we get better it's inspite of him.

Seems you have all of your bases covered.

 

[Pat_Footy]

So if we go worse its Worsfold's fault but if we get better it's inspite of him.

Seems you have all of your bases covered.

I think it's fair to say nobody in their right mind agress with sbd4484 on this...

 

[CursoryMercenary]

So Swift has time on his side, but Ebert is done for, even though there's only 3 months in age between the two?


Oh ok, so when a player doesn't come on it's poor coaching but when one shows a bit it's solely because of their natural talent?
Notice how guys who are simply "naturally talented" and are emerging as key players at the club like Hurn, Lecca and JK are all around the 23-24 year old mark? Maybe we should wait until Masto, Ebert and Swift hit that mark before we judge them, or are they just all done for?

Well Swift has only played two seasons and Masten and Ebert have played three so there is a gap there.

Hurn, LeCras and Kennedy showed signs of talent straight away from their first year. Masten, Ebert and Swift haven't been developed well, it's clear.

 

[Pat_Footy]

Well Swift has only played two seasons and Masten and Ebert have played three so there is a gap there.

Hurn, LeCras and Kennedy showed signs of talent straight away from their first year. Masten, Ebert and Swift haven't been developed well, it's clear.

Well actually it took quite a while for lecras to break into the team

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Well Swift has only played two seasons and Masten and Ebert have played three so there is a gap there.

Hurn, LeCras and Kennedy showed signs of talent straight away from their first year. Masten, Ebert and Swift haven't been developed well, it's clear.

Kennedy struggled through his first two years at Carlton.

LeCras had a breakout game against Richmond (in his second year) and then struggled and got dropped a few times after that.

Masten got 21 touches and 2 brownlow votes in his sixth game. Would you say that's a sign of talent?

 

[CursoryMercenary]

Well actually it took quite a while for lecras to break into the team

He looked good in 2005, played a couple of games and looked able. Late in 2006 he had that wondeful game against Richmond in Round 22 then had a off game in that loss to Sydney and was wrongly dropped.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

Kennedy struggled through his first two years at Carlton.

LeCras had a breakout game against Richmond (in his second year) and then struggled and got dropped a few times after that.

He didn't struggle as such, he played some decent games but was still developing as we know it takes KPP longer to develop. The word flop certainly wasn't dangled about and they and the fans were devasted when he left. Midfielders generally come into their own within the first three seasons of playing continious footy.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

He looked good in 2005, played a couple of games and looked able. Late in 2006 he had that wondeful game against Richmond in Round 22 then had a off game in that loss to Sydney and was wrongly dropped.

In his second game he got a single touch and wasn't seen in the seniors again for 12 months. How much talent did that display exactly?

 

[CursoryMercenary]

In his second game he got a single touch and wasn't seen in the seniors again for 12 months. How much talent did that display exactly?

Well he displayed it after that when given a chance, they had Fevola in there too remember getting 95% of the delivery.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I was talking about LeCras.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

I was talking about LeCras.

Well you can count that as poor team selection then

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not going to pretend I can recall what Lecca's performances for West Perth were like in 2006. We did win a flag that year, remember, so the match committee can't have done everything wrong.

I'm more interested in how his one-kick game in one of his two outings in his debut year fits in with your assertion that he showed talent in his first year...

 

[CursoryMercenary]

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not going to pretend I can recall what Lecca's performances for West Perth were like in 2006. We did win a flag that year, remember, so the match committee can't have done everything wrong.

I'm more interested in how his one-kick game in one of his two outings in his debut year fits in with your assertion that he showed talent in his first year...

He looked good against Port Adelaide in his debut, should have been given more of a go is all i'm saying. Maybe by the end of the season he might have kicked regular goals and we might not have had to kick to Michael Gardiner at Full-Forward only in our GF.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

So one good game is all it takes to display enough talent to overcome shitty coaching, on your theory?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

While I don't agree with SDB on the coach points as far as he does not get credit when we perform I do agree with him on some of our younger players.

Ebert, Masten and Swift in my opinion are just average players at this point and you could not even put the tag of Average on Swift.

Swift can hardly get a kick in the WAFL, his awareness and slow tie to react is to be honest something i would expect from a player in c + D grade amatuer football. At this present point he looks to have very little future and can't for the life of me see how anyone can be excited at his prospects other than Possibly Claremont.

Ebert I think did improve last year and seems to get a lot of the ball but his skills are woefull and I still can't swallow AFL players that have such poor skills.
There was a well written document during this season by Damien Hardwick and endorsed by leigh Matthews that said you can't do much for players with poor kicking skills once they reach the AFL, you can teach them decision making and awareness to possibly give them some more time but their actual skills of kicking are near impossible to change. This is something so many don't seem to understand.
Based on that I think Ebert is always going to be a B Grader because he can't kick.

Masten I just don't know about, I watched him a lot as a young player and he played with flair and was very sharp. He has gone to the Eagles and both those things are no longer evident. He rarely plays on the ball which is what he was drafted for and has had on going injuries as it seems all new recruits at the Eagles have. Again until someone gives him more freedom to be the player he is then i think not much will come from him. He is one player that needs anew coach badly that lets him just go and play.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

So one good game is all it takes to display enough talent to overcome shitty coaching, on your theory?

Stop trying to put words in my mouth, thats not my theory at all. This whole argument is getting old, the bottom line is Worsfold shouldn't be our coach anymore because he hasn't produced results since 2007. His new gameplan has been a massive fail, his comments and outbursts have been out of line and his team selections have been woeful. There is enough there for him to be deserved to be cut loose.

 

[Mattman93]

Well Swift has only played two seasons and Masten and Ebert have played three so there is a gap there.

Oh ok, so Swift has another 4 months or so before you write him off as a poorly developed spud then?

 

[NYJetsfor2029]

Swift can hardly get a kick in the WAFL, his awareness and slow tie to react is to be honest something i would expect from a player in c + D grade amatuer football. At this present point he looks to have very little future and can't for the life of me see how anyone can be excited at his prospects other than Possibly Claremont.

Wll that first half a line is simple untrue, he averaged over 25 disposals a game for Claremont (unless you literally meant Kick because he does seem to handball 95% of the time).

Swifty had a bad year, so bad that by the WAFL GF he stood out as a weakness for the tiges, but as we all know it's quite common for a player to have a poor second year. His first 10 games in '09 were quality, can we please give him another pre-season before we burn him??........ if it's still the same this time next year i'll supply the torches.

 

[basalt]

from his debut season and especially his last game against the tigers a lot of supporters and posters on these boards had swift as being the next big thing for the eagles.

Really went backwards this year, with his confidence right down by the end of the year. I could never work out what position he was supposed to be playing for the eagles, was it as a defensive mid? Anyhow looked like a lot of our young players completely lost on the field.

One of the greatest disappointments for me in a very sad year. I like to think Swift like a number of other young mids needs a different game plan and position and it may be their salvation.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

Oh ok, so Swift has another 4 months or so before you write him off as a poorly developed spud then?

He has another yeah ahead of him and yes if he doesn't improve this year it's a bad sign, he was terrible last year his kicking was shithouse.

 

[tesseract]

Pathetic! Everyone is entitled to an OP, associating those with a different opinion to circle jerking is just a sad reflection of your mentality.

I call it as I see it. Like I said, some can't handle the truth.

EDIT: You hypocrite, you want to talk about mentality with me; you and the circle jerk brigade were the ones pissing on Masten, even though you don't know the truth, but filled in the blanks with your own assumptions. Your comment was one of a typical fanboi who can't handle an opposing opinion, and also one of a hypocrite. Mentality??? Look in the mirror!

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Wll that first half a line is simple untrue, he averaged over 25 disposals a game for Claremont (unless you literally meant Kick because he does seem to handball 95% of the time).

Swifty had a bad year, so bad that by the WAFL GF he stood out as a weakness for the tiges, but as we all know it's quite common for a player to have a poor second year. His first 10 games in '09 were quality, can we please give him another pre-season before we burn him??........ if it's still the same this time next year i'll supply the torches.

I am not burning him I am stating the obvious that he does not at this point look to becoming a good player.

Unfortunately i don't buy the age crap that so many modern supporters do. Christ there are people on here that still say Kennedy is a young prospect.

Even our coach said he was looking forward to seeing Lecras develope into a midfielder, is he waiting for him to go on the veterans list?

Like I said on the main board, can you imagine giving a batsman or Bowler 50 games to bed in?? Unheard of, they have to be a star at the level below before they get a game and then they are ready or not without excuses.

The AFL has it wrong across the board in that they recruit 60-80 players a year that are not good enough to play in a best of the best competition.

In fact I feel sorry for the young kids drafted being told they are good players when they actually only have potential and thats all. only 25% of them make it as well.