Society & Culture Things in life you just don't understand - Part 5

[phantom13]

Can we not do this here? We have a whole board for politics, and this isn't it.

You're being really unfair to people who are trying to shut it out.

Fair point. I avoid the SRP board because it doesnt usually reflect the broader convo i prefer to have.

 

[drd23]

The more I reflect on the outcome of the US election the more it seems that being in Oz and not seeing the full campaign plus my naturally left wing social media and lean must have only painted a fraction of the full picture.

How can someone say, "The aliens are eating your cats and dogs!" and still be taken seriously? It's truly baffling.

I think both of you (like a lot of people with more than a passing interest in politics) overestimate how much regular people care to care about politics. They have other things going on in their lives that they think of as more important to them, be that their family, health, sports teams, making ends meet etc.

They don't consume the daily news stories about what the candidates are doing, and they certainly don't watch a 2 hour rally, so they don't hear the crazy things Trump says and the certainly don't take the time to logically dissect if what he says makes sense or is true. They get their news in snippets from social media, or from talking to friends and neighbours (which are increasing becoming more and more insular)

 

[JackOutback]

I don't understand how anyone is surprised, shocked etc. by the US election result. Republican voters have shown they will vote for anyone/anything. Democrat voters have shown they won't vote. Guess what happens when you add those two things together...

Based on current numbers it is R72.6m to D68m votes overall. Those numbers will still go up a bit as they finish counting the Western states but in 2020 it was R74.2m vs D81.3m. 2016 R63m vs D65.9m. 2012 R60.9m vs D65.9m. 2008 R60m vs D69.5m. Trump got fewer votes this time than he did last time or in 2016 when he won. Harris is probably going to end up with 10m+ votes less than Biden. The Democrats took a big L because the people that vote for them just didn't. I don't know if Biden's position (lack of position?) on Israel turned people off but unless Trump goes to war with Iran and stabilises the region by accident he is not going to help.

Total votes don't really matter but blue blue NY went from 5.2m vs 3.3m to 4.2m vs 3.4m. Maybe 100,000 people changed sides but then that still means the other 900,000 just didn't bother to vote. Same in Massachusetts. Trump +66k, Harris -312k. Trump won "battleground" Pennsylvania by gaining 75,000 votes while Harris lost 150,000. Trump did win Wisconsin and Michigan by gaining more votes than Harris lost, though.

I'd be fascinated to know how many people actually changed their vote from Democrat to Republican or vice versa. I'm guessing not many. The Democrats are idiots and don't seem to understand you need to appeal to enough of the population to win your 270 electoral votes and that means more than just select demographics of New York, New England, California and the Pacific Northwest. Calling everyone who votes Trump racist, sexist etc. doesn't work. Complaining that people won't vote for a woman or a person of color (sic) doesn't work. Blaming people who don't vote for you for not voting for you isn't a strategy. Obama gained 10m votes over John Kerry is who is a run of the mill middle aged white dude. Were people momentarily not racist in 2008? There are a lot of people in the US who would never vote for a Harris or Hillary or Obama but this isn't new info and these aren't the people that are going to swing an election by deciding to turn up and vote Democrat anyway. If 10m people who voted Democrat last time didn't vote for Harris because she isn't a racist white dude AND 73m different people voted for a different racist white dude then America is truly cooked. IMO there are more middle Americans who aren't rusted on one party or the other influenced by Trump's nonsense that is aimed at things they care about (border control, cost of living etc) than the nonsense that goes on in NY and California.

I can't help but think that every candidate since Obama should've been an easy kill. Similar to here. It was Hawke when I was born, then Keating for 5 years, Howard for 11 and an assortment of doughnuts since. I mean Morrison vs Shorten my god. I can see why Americans don't vote. But then you see what happens when they don't. Please have someone good on either side next time. Martin Sheen, Bill Pullman, Morgan Freeman... whoever.

A lot of good points here, but circling back top just one, pointing to Obama and suggesting that race likely isn't a factor isn't correct. Obama was an exceptional candidate with charm and charisma to burn. That allowed him to overcome the hesitancy from some voters and get him over the top. But that's kind of the problem, if you're black, you have to be perfect for the general population to accept you. In Harris' case, she was an average candidate, certainly better than Trump as a career prosecutor then senator, but not an exceptional candidate. Any little flaw, right down to the way she laughs, was seen as a disqualifying factor. She was held to a standard Trump was not.

 

[phantom13]

I think both of you (like a lot of people with more than a passing interest in politics) overestimate how much regular people care to care about politics. They have other things going on in their lives that they think of as more important to them, be that their family, health, sports teams, making ends meet etc.

They don't consume the daily news stories about what the candidates are doing, and they certainly don't watch a 2 hour rally, so they don't hear the crazy things Trump says and the certainly don't take the time to logically dissect if what he says makes sense or is true. They get their news in snippets from social media, or from talking to friends and neighbours (which are increasing becoming more and more insular)

Yeh im not sure thats really true though. I certainly dont watch the 2 hour rallies and rarely see much more than what social media shows me.

All his latino comments and all his gloating about being the guy that got Roe v Wade overturned is very much in that space, yet so many women and Latinos voted for him.

If anything it seems like it would be much easier to dismiss him from the sound bites and headlines than it would if you actually delved into his policy and acumen (of which there isnt much)

 

[Scotland]

I think a pretty big part of the problem is that Trump supporters are delusionally one eyed.

I think that is US politics in general. They are a lot more tribal than we are and focused on different issues.

The Dixie Chicks said they didn't support the war in Iraq and were ashamed they were from the same state as George Dubya and everyone lost their minds because how dare anyone from Texas not blindly support team red.

 

[JackOutback]

I think that is US politics in general. They are a lot more tribal than we are and focused on different issues.

The Dixie Chicks said they didn't support the war in Iraq and were ashamed they were from the same state as George Dubya and everyone lost their minds because how dare anyone from Texas not blindly support team red.

They should have been ashamed of their music.

 

[Scotland]

A lot of good points here, but circling back top just one, pointing to Obama and suggesting that race likely isn't a factor isn't correct. Obama was an exceptional candidate with charm and charisma to burn. That allowed him to overcome the hesitancy from some voters and get him over the top. But that's kind of the problem, if you're black, you have to be perfect for the general population to accept you. In Harris' case, she was an average candidate, certainly better than Trump as a career prosecutor then senator, but not an exceptional candidate. Any little flaw, right down to the way she laughs, was seen as a disqualifying factor. She was held to a standard Trump was not.

Agreed. Maybe one for the unpopular opinions thread but if you already know half the population won't vote for an average black candidate then maybe don't field an average black candidate. Also people who live in DEI bubbles don't seem to understand that most people don't. Hence people voting for Trump who he openly talks shit about.

 

[blueboy25]

They should have been ashamed of their music.

Take that back, take that back right now!!!!

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Also people who live in DEI bubbles don't seem to understand that most people don't.

TILIDU.

Why the chatter and emphasis on DEI has become mainstream in 2024.

 

[Scotland]

TILIDU.

Why the chatter and emphasis on DEI has become mainstream in 2024.

??

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I'm getting tired of seeing the loss reduced to being about Harris' gender and race. It's reductive and the Dems will learn nothing unless they analyse Trump's true impact. A criminal and spin doctor he may be, but he's bloody good at it.

It's one of my biggest bugbears in modern politics.
Everything has to be binary for some reason. If you stand/support/whatever X then you must be some version of insult.

candidate x lost because reason x
And so on.

The reasons why people voted and support for whoever are complex.

 

[rank and file]

There was one event that moved the dial.

 

[Billy ray]

everyone these days is in their own echo chamber, fueled by algorithms, and can never understand someone else with a different viewpoint. its gotten so much worse due to technology.
at least back in teh day you kind of got balanced views and could make your decision and still know other viewpoints.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

??

Things In Life I Don't Understand.

 

[Beerfish]

everyone these days is in their own echo chamber, fueled by algorithms, and can never understand someone else with a different viewpoint. its gotten so much worse due to technology.
at least back in teh day you kind of got balanced views and could make your decision and still know other viewpoints.

You are 100% correct.. correct.. correct..

 

[JackOutback]

Things In Life I Don't Understand.

DEI is 100 per cent a dog whistle. It means where did all these coloured people come from. Harris is a well educated former prosecutor, senator and vice president that would embarrass any of the yokels that call her a DEI hire in a debate. The demographics of the US has changed and some people just can't abide it.

 

[Scotland]

Things In Life I Don't Understand.

Oh that is obvious.

 

[nobbyiscool]

Why the **** don't reports on BF say who the moderator is who made a ruling?

Your prediction that the conversation - which is genuinely traumatic for a lot of people, and in a place where people should reasonably expect to be able to avoid it - has turned out really well, hasn't it you faceless, nameless peanut.

 

[rank and file]

Why the **** don't reports on BF say who the moderator is who made a ruling?

Your prediction that the conversation - which is genuinely traumatic for a lot of people, and in a place where people should reasonably expect to be able to avoid it - has turned out really well, hasn't it you faceless, nameless peanut.

Justice for Peanut.

 

[Gough]

Why the **** don't reports on BF say who the moderator is who made a ruling?

Your prediction that the conversation - which is genuinely traumatic for a lot of people, and in a place where people should reasonably expect to be able to avoid it - has turned out really well, hasn't it you faceless, nameless peanut.

It was a group decision. Some people here don't go onto the boards where this is more abrasively discussed and people posting here might want to talk about it, and let's face it for a lot of people it's something they don't understand.

 

[nobbyiscool]

It was a group decision. Some people here don't go onto the boards where this is more abrasively discussed and people posting here might want to talk about it, and let's face it for a lot of people it's something they don't understand.

It's a rubbish decision being defended by someone who I believe has more empathy than this.

People are empowered to go to the SRP board or not. But their choice - made of their own free will - does not justify you/them disempowering people who are genuinely traumatised and/or triggered by the election result, and who need some time to process it.

Coming to General - traditionally one of BFs fun boards - should've been a respite, a haven from that terror and anxiety, and the decision to disempower people like me in favour who were already empowered to discuss it on the SRP board is bullshit.

Your justification is worse than the decision itself.