Thoughts on Watters, his approach to season 2013, the rebuild and beyond

[SaintLex]

How about because it has some degree of accuracy ....

Last week there was all the press about Dal Santo being traded and then him stating that he did not want to leave and then conceding for the benefit of the club. Can you imagine what that is doing to people close to Dal at the club. This sort of stuff tears the fabric of clubs apart and basically that is occurring.

Then reportedly the Martin fiasco which Watters was involved in.

This week Greg Hutchinson is sacked .... and then Finey gives the club a spray on radio.

Smell the roses people !

'Martin Fiasco'... From what I can gather, the recruiters were doing their due diligence and scoping out every option there is out there, which includes Martin. Watters told Armo and Fisher to re-consider their plans, effectively ruling us out of the race. I actually agree with Watters' stance on the matter. I don't want Martin at the club - nor do plenty of other Saints fan (obviously some disagree, that's fine). However, I may have considered Martin before our previous indiscretion, so it was not totally wrong of the club to make contact with management and see what it would take to get Martin over. If this is the basis to sack Watters, then we're doing something seriously wrong here. It seems clear to me that the coach is trying his upmost to change the culture around here and if certain people within the club are unhappy about it, they can ship out, not Scott.

I have no detail on what happened with Hutchinson. Neither do you obviously otherwise you would have said it. So his position was made redundant and Pelchan is taking over the duties. While I feel for him, you can hardly link it to Watters creating division in the club when there are a number of other perfectly reasonable ways to explain what happened as well.

As for Dal, I agree. I don't want him to go and I have argued against him leaving in the trade thread, stating similar reasons to what you said. However, others have counter-acted this with the equally valid conclusion that the individual is not bigger than the club. Sometimes unpopular decisions need to be made in order to progress. I'll be unhappy if Dal leaves, but i'll also know that it was done with the best interests of the club in mind. Hardly a sacking offence.

 

[Rors]

From memory, didn't Roo threaten to leave the club after GT was sacked? While he changed his tune pretty quick, I'm sure there was still some residual resentment towards RL from the playing group given how close the players were with him. It's impossible to get everyone on side just as it's impossible to predict the future. Jury is still out but sacking Watters would achieve nothing and set us back further. We all knew this period wasn't going to be pretty and it was never going to be an easy coaching job. To truly rebuild and change the club Watters and co are going to need to step on some toes and not everyone will be happy (at least initially). Anyone ever been through a business restructure? Complaints at the ground level are inevitable because people often can't see the forest from the trees, but as long as you're working towards a clear and informed vision then you're moving forward. Change is always difficult, but complacency won't give us flags.

It was the same when they sacked Malcolm Blight too... Fraser & Aaron were seething & very disgruntled by the sacking. Then GT came along & everything was nice...

 

[VDS66]

If there is a divide then i would think that it would be similar to what is happening at the pies were a newish coach wants to create his team.

Football is a harsh reality and it is over before you know it.

Hammer - nail - head!

 

[sammm]

if we don't watch it, Fine will bring down the club with his ranting. How many other teams have this going on. how ridiculous is it all. Name one other club that that has so much angst always gonig on. ( except the bombers this year).

If Watters is sacked beucease of the meida crap that is going on, that is justlike the saints going back to the 80's or 90's

 

[VDS66]

Put up or shut up, might be the normal Australian response to this.

I prefer the term piss or get off the pot.. but then again I am probably less of a gentleman that you are, kind sir.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

I prefer the term piss or get off the pot.. but then again I am probably less of a gentleman that you are, kind sir.

That works for me too. Also may I suggest that those who know and are compiling the dossier may want to consider:

• pull out the finger
• action speaks louder than words
• don't say, do

 

[Persevering Saint]

Ok quick head count: Like this post of you think that Watters is doing a good job

I am going to make the assumption that a majority of the BF saints think that Watters is doing a good job.

And now the REAL reason for this whole thing comes out.

C'mon, guys, can't you see it?

This was all one giant ploy for Cooksen to get his next BF "most likes" badge.

Well played, sir. Well played.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

It was suggested to me that I become more balanced with comments, but I didn't take the hint

And you are proud of the fact that you are negative and hell bent on undermining the club. That's not a supporter by anyones definition. I saw your credibility as low and now clearly see it as zero, with your admitted destructive bent. Real supporters stick by the club in good times and bad. Real supporters don't take every opportunity, to denigrate the club. You are so far from being a real Saints supporter, it is laughable.

 

[Nutsngum]

Guys, Winners Only is just a troll, and a reasonably good one at that, and theres really not much point responding to him.

 

[Squizz]

This was all one giant ploy for Cooksen to get his next BF "most likes" badge.

Terribly cynical of you Perc!

(that was my reaction too ... I'm liking yours instead)

 

[Squizz]

Guys, Winners Only is just a troll, and a reasonably good one at that, and theres really not much point responding to him.

At least Nexus Helen had more than one thought ... "sack the coach" and "delist/trade every player over 28yo".

 

[cartwright]

At least Nexus Helen had more than one thought ... "sack the coach" and "delist/trade every player over 28yo".

haha. I was thinking the same thing... reminded me of NH & its mantra of sack the coach

 

[Persevering Saint]

Terribly cynical of you Perc!

(that was my reaction too ... I'm liking yours instead)

Hey, I figure it's not nearly as far fetched as some of the conspiracy theories going on in here. I figured I'd put up something totally ridiculous, to help Kildonan - as a scientist he needs crazy comments like this to help him measure all the other ones, right?

 

[Kildonan]

Guys, Winners Only is just a troll, and a reasonably good one at that, and theres really not much point responding to him.

If you think Winners Only is a troll here - you should check out his posts on Saintsational - he has staged a one-man campaign to sack Scott Watters for most of the season.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

The mods have made it clear that unless we are posting positive stuff about Scott Watters our posts are no longer wanted. So will no longer be posting in this thread.

No, we just simply ask slanderous statements be backed up with facts, just like we always have.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

another rant about hating Watters

Troll somewhere else

 

[mysainters]

They do...

 

[cartwright]

How about because it has some degree of accuracy ....

Last week there was all the press about Dal Santo being traded and then him stating that he did not want to leave and then conceding for the benefit of the club. Can you imagine what that is doing to people close to Dal at the club. This sort of stuff tears the fabric of clubs apart and basically that is occurring.

Then reportedly the Martin fiasco which Watters was involved in.

This week Greg Hutchinson is sacked .... and then Finey gives the club a spray on radio.

Smell the roses people !

Is this seriously your reasoning?

 

[Persevering Saint]

I've avoided really engaging with this issue. But I'll throw in my two cents.

• First of all, you all know that I have been pretty ticked with the selections this year: the lack of inside mids and other roles, the delay in playing Curren and Ledger, etc. So I'm not coming from the Watters-Kool-Aid crowd.
• HOWEVER, I think Fine's arguments actually speak FOR Watters, rather than against him.
• I have shared Thunda's concerns about the lack of healthy respect for our Sandy affiliate. However, if it's come out now that we're breaking that affiliation in the near future, I suspect that decision was made a lot earlier than we heard about it. As such, it would be pointless for Watters to butter up to an organisation we have no future with. I'll admit, I think it's a shame that we're not keeping the alignment, as I think it was mutually beneficial. But hey, I can see the value in the stand-alone arguments, and thus understand Pelchen, Watters and the club generally in their decision.
• While I appreciate the great contributions of the old guard, I am not interested in St Kilda becoming a retirement home, or existing for the stroking of their egos. I am glad that I've only heard Finey accuse them of being resentful of their diminished importance, and hope that they are not. The veterans sound most impressive when they talk about mentoring the youngsters and building for the future like Burke, Harvey and Leowe did. I think Finey's comments are more an insult to the old guard, than they are an insult to Watters.
• I am not interested in the youngsters having a coach who tucks them into bed at night. I want a coach who drives them to excel. I remember hearing Leigh Matthews speak once at a Conference, about different players at Brisbane needing different types of motivation, based on sports psychology: some needed encouragement, others needed rockets up their butts, some needed aloofness. I wonder if we're talking about the same thing here. (I say this still being ticked that Ledge didn't play much last year, but even I have to concede the point I just made, has some bearing on Tom's situation)
• All I know, is when I have seen the clips of kids debuting, and they're with the coach, they look like they respect the hell out of him, and want to impress him - whether that's because they love him because he's such a nice guy, or because they've hardly spoken to him and feel privileged to be in his presence, I don't care. All I care about, is that he's getting the best from them.
• As for Martin, there are two issues here: did he or did he not hose down attempts to get Martin, and if he did, was he right or wrong to do so? It seems to me, the only two plausible ideas are that Pelchen and Trout didn't want Martin at all, because he is inconsistent with their perpetual emphasis on character; or they had a brainfade because of Martin's talent, and Scott gave them a wakeup call. Either way, I don't mind in the least if Martin is not with us next year.
• Lastly, while I do think Watters has made mistakes, he's a new coach, and I don't expect him or anybody to be perfect. I do think we are in the recession we had to have. I also think Brisbane has taken the mantle of joke-of-the-competition from us for now, and I have no interest in regaining that mantle. Sacking him would be a return to the half-cocked, half-arsed approach we had throughout the 80s. I never want to go back there again. Ever.

So, make of all that what you will.

 

[Squizz]

Careful Percy - you're only going to end up creating balanced debate with that kind of stuff.

 

[Periphery]

I've avoided really engaging with this issue. But I'll throw in my two cents.

...Intelligent balanced discussion...

So, make of all that what you will.

I liked this post just so I could press unlike on it. How dare you bring reasonable conversation into this thread!

 

[Defacto]

I've avoided really engaging with this issue. But I'll throw in my two cents.

• First of all, you all know that I have been pretty ticked with the selections this year: the lack of inside mids and other roles, the delay in playing Curren and Ledger, etc. So I'm not coming from the Watters-Kool-Aid crowd.
• HOWEVER, I think Fine's arguments actually speak FOR Watters, rather than against him.
• I have shared Thunda's concerns about the lack of healthy respect for our Sandy affiliate. However, if it's come out now that we're breaking that affiliation in the near future, I suspect that decision was made a lot earlier than we heard about it. As such, it would be pointless for Watters to butter up to an organisation we have no future with. I'll admit, I think it's a shame that we're not keeping the alignment, as I think it was mutually beneficial. But hey, I can see the value in the stand-alone arguments, and thus understand Pelchen, Watters and the club generally in their decision.
• While I appreciate the great contributions of the old guard, I am not interested in St Kilda becoming a retirement home, or existing for the stroking of their egos. I am glad that I've only heard Finey accuse them of being resentful of their diminished importance, and hope that they are not. The veterans sound most impressive when they talk about mentoring the youngsters and building for the future like Burke, Harvey and Leowe did. I think Finey's comments are more an insult to the old guard, than they are an insult to Watters.
• I am not interested in the youngsters having a coach who tucks them into bed at night. I want a coach who drives them to excel. I remember hearing Leigh Matthews speak once at a Conference, about different players at Brisbane needing different types of motivation, based on sports psychology: some needed encouragement, others needed rockets up their butts, some needed aloofness. I wonder if we're talking about the same thing here. (I say this still being ticked that Ledge didn't play much last year, but even I have to concede the point I just made, has some bearing on Tom's situation)
• All I know, is when I have seen the clips of kids debuting, and they're with the coach, they look like they respect the hell out of him, and want to impress him - whether that's because they love him because he's such a nice guy, or because they've hardly spoken to him and feel privileged to be in his presence, I don't care. All I care about, is that he's getting the best from them.
• As for Martin, there are two issues here: did he or did he not hose down attempts to get Martin, and if he did, was he right or wrong to do so? It seems to me, the only two plausible ideas are that Pelchen and Trout didn't want Martin at all, because he is inconsistent with their perpetual emphasis on character; or they had a brainfade because of Martin's talent, and Scott gave them a wakeup call. Either way, I don't mind in the least if Martin is not with us next year.
• Lastly, while I do think Watters has made mistakes, he's a new coach, and I don't expect him or anybody to be perfect. I do think we are in the recession we had to have. I also think Brisbane has taken the mantle of joke-of-the-competition from us for now, and I have no interest in regaining that mantle. Sacking him would be a return to the half-cocked, half-arsed approach we had throughout the 80s. I never want to go back there again. Ever.

So, make of all that what you will.

refreshing view mate!!!! great post!!!

 

[St_Laz]

First of all. Pro-Watters, doing good work, nobody's perfect. Listen to his interview on ABC radio a few pages back and you get a good sense of him and his style.

He never openly/publicly shot down the Martin chase (if there was one, still unconfirmed).
He told Armo and Fisher privately that he didn't think it would be a good idea to go away with him. And that was leaked.
(not hard to guess why, fisher annoyed? Or Martin annoyed and told people?)

Either way, Martin is a big risk and a big cost. Really not what we need right now. For those thinking Pelchan has too much power, Watters pulling the pin on the talks should be a good thing right?

 

[Persevering Saint]

Careful Percy - you're only going to end up creating balanced debate with that kind of stuff.

I will admit that some of my more destabilising posts recently, may have been me taking the mick at how seriously some people take themselves, especially at issues or positions that I don't think need to be taken so seriously. Essentially, lighten up, people.

 

[Defacto]

this got posted on SS from a poster that has had inside info before:

Heard the same rumours as Finey before the B&F.

Rather than believe I investigated - something I would expect the media would do ...

- older players understand their role to guide next generation but wish they were being asked to be MORE involved rather than being told that the development staff will do it (so they feel a little disrespected and under valued) but wanting to contribute

- mix aged players are determined to succeed under Scott and excited by the generation under them and believe they can play finals again within a few years with some added recruiting / drafting cream

- younger players ummm love the ummm club and ummm all their teammates and ummm really love the ummm old blokes and Scotty is ummm like amazing to work with

- Tom Ledger blames himself for lack of games - has struggled to add the necessary fitness required to sustain 7-8 minutes of continuous offensive and defensive running that the coach demands to take a place in the midfield and only recently regained his line breaking attack with the ball and his composure with the ball in tight situations

- Pelchin and Watters do argue but it is healthy debate about the future and what it should look like - both have different jobs and objectives - but the bottom line is that Pelchin wins out and Scotty has to live with the list he is handed. There is great belief in Elshaugh for drafting but this year will be a heavy trade period.

All of this from speaking directly to sober players and tipsy staff members at the b&f.

The rumour is IMHO the interpretation of an ex insider (not player or coaching staff) who feels we could do better than Scott as coach and has spun some dissatisfaction amongst older players and some vigorous but healthy debate between Pelchin and Watters into a rumour about Scott tearing the fabric of the club apart purely to suit their own sack Watters agenda.

This is exactly how St Kilda has failed in the past.

Thank goodness this trouble maker is no longer in a position of authority and thank goodness we have a quality board now - they are smart enough to get to the bottom of these type of rumours AND will sack Scott based on his KPIs when the time comes which will probably be in the post 2016 (if we have not made finals) or 2019 if we have not made a Grand Final.

Unless of course I have exposed myself to a cover up and the original rumour is correct and the club is being torn apart by Watters.

Either way - I wish Mr. Fine had investigated AND either way kept it in-house as this is the sort of rumour that causes more harm than good.