News Tigers to trade for a ruckman

[Bird Man]

we are having the wrong mindset some times.

We have to think like a top 4 club that we are! we can match bummers tankers and hawkers for memberships and even collingwood..

One. would a top team trade for this player?
two. can this player become or is one of the best?
and three. we cant be afraid with price tags

like F. jackson said we will be looking for a special player and a big name.

we cant afford to pay for a player that MIGHT be good for us.

 

[tigs2010]

We do but I wouldn't count Dea as one. See him playing lockdown small defender. Conca will eventually be a midfielder. If Connors gets fit next year hopefully that allows Deledio into the mdifield. Jakobi is unknown, hasn't done much.




I agree with some of that, although even if Griffin did play 11 game Maric's numbers as #1 ruck should be much better.

Also that 37 hitout game against us was probably close to his best ever game, maybe that's why you have an inflated sense of his worth. Then he went back to being average agaisnt everyone else. If he comes cheaply it won't be the end of the world, just when people are carrying on about Maric 5 weeks into 2012, don't say I didn't tell you so. I'd rather try looking for a player who has more upside rather than a player who will just take the hits until we're ready to spend on better quality. Given Z. Clarke is probably out of the picture, J.Griffin wouldn't be bad. His output this year has been very high when filling in for Sandilands. Got family over there but a promise of the number #1 spot him might be enough.





Yes, agree.

I forgot to add Newman in as well. I'd prefer Griffin or Clarke too but it won't happen. I just don't see Connors long term. I listed Dea as he's a small backman/flanker. We only need to play 3. Newman/Batchelor/Dea. Conca will become a mid as well agreed. I just think Connors position is easier to replace. Would also happily give up a 3rd rounder instead but doubt Adelaide would go for it. I would like another 2nd rounder from an Edwards/Jackson. If we get it for Jacko maybe Edwards can be traded for Maric? I'm kind of hoping we improve to a level Connors isn't best 22 anyway in a year or 2 so we won't miss him.

 

[ize_]

I have Connors at wing/half forward with Morton in 2012. Could be just what we need.

 

[McGun]

Still really want Dawson Simpson.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Maric dropped for Tippett. Excellent! That should consolidate his thinking...

 

[McGun]

If we do sign Maric do you guys think we he will get 100% of the ruck work or will we do what Swans did a few years ago and got the two rucks (Mumford and Seaby)?

 

[rammbo]

If we do sign Maric do you guys think we he will get 100% of the ruck work or will we do what Swans did a few years ago and got the two rucks (Mumford and Seaby)?

Absolutely get 2 rucks so we can remove browne and gus off the list.

 

[nugget_12]

MAric would be a great get for us IMO, the people who were knocking a few pages back need to realise that he was far and away the crows best ruckman the last 2 years! im not sure what his issues are this year but notice how the last 2 weeks he rucked the crows won!
Hes a very good ruckman when hes up and about and i for 1 would love to get him to the club! He's got better tap work and ground work than both our current Ruckman so would definatly be an upgrade!

 

[Wacky Tiger]

MAric would be a great get for us IMO, the people who were knocking a few pages back need to realise that he was far and away the crows best ruckman the last 2 years! im not sure what his issues are this year but notice how the last 2 weeks he rucked the crows won!
Hes a very good ruckman when hes up and about and i for 1 would love to get him to the club! He's got better tap work and ground work than both our current Ruckman so would definatly be an upgrade!

I noticed how they lost last week.

Although they did give it a fair shake.

He's not that great an upgrade on Graham. Aslong as he dosent cost us much then why not.

 

[nugget_12]

I noticed how they lost last week.

Although they did give it a fair shake.

He's not that great an upgrade on Graham. Aslong as he dosent cost us much then why not.

Haha yeh good point! completely forgot about last weeks game against geelong! probably becuase i didnt actually watch it!

i apologize for that! still none the less i would be happy to have him at the club as No1 Ruckman!

 

[santa claws]

thats a good post and agree with most of it.

just let me say though i reckon browne is a couple yrs away if hes there at all.
imo vickery should be developed from here on in as the no1 ruckman but that too will take some time in the short term.

derickx may or may not come on we will find that out next yr.

the one option you over look is taking a mature ruckman for two yrs as
1/ someone the other can learn from, 2/ a short term fix that will do three things, give us more time to develop properly what we have, and also make us more competetive and make it a bit easier on our young mids like cotchin and martin.and finally adding some much needed experience and muscle.

an example of this would be say ben hudson is delisted at the dogs. go get him for nothing give him two yrs on a reasonable contract. this scenario would kill several birds with one stone.

sheesh not even a nibble on this it must be absolutely crazy either that or people dont think either vickery or browne the answer in the next two maybe three seasons.

i know which player i would take, hudson over maric anyday as a short term solution, i have also said we need to use a decent pick on a young ruckman ie lycett who went to the eagles at 29 last yr.

 

[tugga]

sheesh not even a nibble on this it must be absolutely crazy either that or people dont think either vickery or browne the answer in the next two maybe three seasons.

i know which player i would take, hudson over maric anyday as a short term solution, i have also said we need to use a decent pick on a young ruckman ie lycett who went to the eagles at 29 last yr.

Maybe nobody cares what you think

 

[Azzleberry]

Zac Clarke, Trent West, Dawson Simpson, Shaun Hampson and Jonathon Griffin are all better options than Maric... And will admittedly cost more, but I don't believe in short-term thinking, so would throw the kitchen sink at Zac Clarke...

 

[axel2cotch2lids]

Ivan Maric? Anyone that wants him has never seen him play

Has anyone ever said to their mates "Geesh maric at adelaides not a bad player", or thought before and Adelaide Richmond game "Maric is going to kill us today"

Anyone? Ever?

No I thought not and you know why? Because he is dead average.

Getting a ruckman who averages 10 or less possessions a game, 3 marks, has horrible disposal and poor decision making just because he is cheap makes no sense.

We would just have 2 Angus grahams on the list.

its like swapping a Red potato for a white one. They are both just potatoes and you can boil em, roast them and fry them but at the end of the day they are still a freekin' potato.

Im not the biggest fan of any of our current ruckman (bar Derickx who ive seen for a few minutes in an NAB cup game) but if we get Maric then Angus Graham is still our #1 Ruck option and we still have no young promising ruckman on the list (I do not include Vickery as he is too valuable as a forward to spend a lot of time in the ruck but is the perfect part-time #2)

We need to trade for a ruckman who can be one of the best in the league or dont bother trading and use a higher draft pick to get a good one in the next 1-2 years and persist with Graham as he will slowly improve and hope Derickx can push through as he is obviously our most mobile ruck option.

 

[THE_GUN]

Please God !!


Let Jacobs get a 3 week injury & be rested for the rest of the year.

Angus Graham v Ivaaaaan Maric shoot out

Then perhaps we will just see that he isnt really that big of an upgrade rather a wasted pick.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Surely people don't forget our rd.18 game against the Crows last year so soon, do they?

Adelaide used Griffin and Maric, we used a very tired Graham and Browne in his 3rd game. Griffin rated lower than Graham for the game after mostly going head to head with him, Maric rated lower for the game than Browne after mostly going head to head with him, and Adelaide lost by 20 points. On most statistical measures and certainly from watching the game, Graham and Browne at the very least broke even, I'd argue they had a slight win like the team did and the ratings agree.

Is it just the tiniest bit possible that careers full of games like that, may have a little something to do with why Maric and Griffin can't get a game where they are?

We could use another mature ruck and I'm all for trying to get one on the cheap, but I'm buggered if I can work out why people want to glorify pretty average opposition players who our own existing rucks have gone very well against only recently. There's only a handful of rucks in the comp who are a bracket above the same 'B-grade' pack Graham is amongst and none of them are on the market AFAIK.

 

[folester41]

im actually a fan of maric, he is no superstar but is certainly an upgrade on what we have and doesnt look like a big dope like graham and browne.

 

[Damo80]

Zac Clarke, Trent West, Dawson Simpson, Shaun Hampson and Jonathon Griffin are all better options than Maric... And will admittedly cost more, but I don't believe in short-term thinking, so would throw the kitchen sink at Zac Clarke...

You could throw two kitchen sinks and Freo would still want more. May be cheaper to pursue Grundy via the mini draft, but that option would require patience.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Mumford slaughtered McEvoy this weekend compared to the mild touch up he gave Graham the week before, Graham was very solid against Jamar and Martin today.

Graham's current form ranks him pretty well against the competition's rucks, better than most if not all touted to replace him.

Anyone who thinks they can walk in and take his spot off him is in for a sore summer, he's not on Lade's 'conserve your strength so you can run four quarters out in the ruck' leash at training.

 

[tigs2010]

Mumford slaughtered McEvoy this weekend compared to the mild touch up he gave Graham the week before, Graham was very solid against Jamar and Martin today.

Graham's current form ranks him pretty well against the competition's rucks, better than most if not all touted to replace him.

Anyone who thinks they can walk in and take his spot off him is in for a sore summer, he's not on Lade's 'conserve your strength so you can run four quarters out in the ruck' leash at training.

His career is on the line. The guy isn't shit he's just lazy.

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

Bit bemused by all the love for Maric as no matter how you dice it, he is 3rd in line behind Jacobs and Tippet for the 14th team. The cynic in me says this article is perhaps club-generated as a bit of a rocket to Gus to take his game to the next level.

Graham is an improving player, who periodically plateaus before improving again. Right now he is probably as good as Maric. In 2 years time he will probably be significantly better, so where does that leave Ivan then? Or Browne? Or Vickery? Let alone Derickx...

I think we have a need for a seasoned mature ruckman to support Graham for perhaps next 2-3 years. At that point we will probably have too many ruckmen. That's the argument against a Zac Clarke or a Hampson. Their recruitment would probably cost us a 2nd round pick or a good young player as well as come at the expense of Graham's development (and to a lesser extent Vickery's and Browne's also). I'm not sure that's a win overall as far as where we want to be around 2014-15. Whereas say a Mark Blake might just fill the short-term void.

A big issue is price. Could perhaps angle for someone like Blake through PSD (assuming Cats de-list him) as his strength is tap work and our mids need first use of the ball. Not keen to give up a good young player for Maric or even players like Morton or Connors who like Graham to me still have plenty of up-side.

 

[Damo80]

Bit bemused by all the love for Maric as no matter how you dice it, he is 3rd in line behind Jacobs and Tippet for the 14th team. The cynic in me says this article is perhaps club-generated as a bit of a rocket to Gus to take his game to the next level.

You do have some good points... although at the time when the talk first emerged of us looking for a ruck, it was blatantly obvious that we needed one. It just happens that Gus has since pulled his finger out to a point, and shown he is capable of playing decent footy at AFL level. But what happens when he takes his foot off again? As an earlier poster said, he isn't shit, he's just lazy.

Vickery is a good player, but playing predominantly as a forward and relieving in the ruck. We need one good ruck to play the other 80%. It may end up that Gus is that player. It could potentially be Derrickx. Browne has some supporters who say he just needs time... I'm not convinced.

And not sure about you saying we need a seasoned ruck to support Graham for 2 or 3 years. If we trade in a ready made ruck it will be to replace Graham, not to support him. We won't play two genuine rucks + TV in the same side. At this point, getting Mark Blake would be a waste, unless it was to sit on the rookie list (ala Miller) and be back up in case Gus got injured... I just don't see how you could play Blake ahead of Gus based on Gus's last few games. In fact, based on his last few games I too am becoming sceptical that Maric would get a game ahead of him. If we can trade with a mid tier, surplus to requirements player (Connors? Nason? McGuane ), then perhaps it's still worth the punt. If we're talking about throwing our 2nd rounder at the Crows to get him then I say "no thanks".

 

[TigerTime88]

Gus has what it takes but he is a pea heart and while he has decent games I don't think you can just rely on him rocking up every now and then. He did well yesterday but he still needs to work on alot.

Even at one point he let the ball slip over the back of the pack from a kickout and needs Cotch to scream at him to get on the line at times.

He got smashed in the hit outs yesterday and I think that is what counts. Even when he does get the taps they are never really to advantage. Jamar was putting the ball wherever he liked when he got his hand on it.

 

[Damo80]

Gus has what it takes but he is a pea heart...

Agreed... again, not shit, just lazy.

He got smashed in the hit outs yesterday and I think that is what counts. Even when he does get the taps they are never really to advantage. Jamar was putting the ball wherever he liked when he got his hand on it.

If that were true, Mark Blake would still be getting a game. I've been satisfied with Gus's last few games, but his tap work has still been ordinary. Whilst you don't want the opposition ruckman to be allowed to put the ball on the chest of his midfielder at every opportunity (which did seem to happen far too often yesterday), I think being useful around the ground is what counts, perhaps moreso than winning the HO to Advantage... although improvement there would be a huge bonus, of course.

 

[heartbroken]

I think both Browne and Gus at best can try and neutralise the ruck position - forget about actually winning the ruck position for the day.

Unfortunately, both have very small engines which means come last quarter, they are completely spent! None more visable that yesterday when Jamar absolutely dominated the hitouts (and to advantage to) in the last quarter.

Perhaps recruiting Zac Clarke is a pipedream but Richmond should (i) offer him good coin and a longer term contract; and (ii) advise him that he will be no.1 ruck rather than competing for 2nd/3rd position.

The ability of a player like Zac Clarke (much like Leunberger) to actually contribute around the group would effectively mean we have another player on the field. That would be huge!!

PS - Unlike a lot of others on this forum, I would offer a good trade to get someone like Zac Clarke with only our top 4-5 off the table