News Tigers to trade for a ruckman

[UpTheGuts]

Apologies for harping on it; but Maric was either fourth or seventh (depending on whose stats you believe) for hit-outs to advantage across the entire league, last year...

He's not a journeyman, he's not a star, but he's a good, passionate footballer; he did have a big form slump this year, but outside from that, he's been very good for us.

It purely comes down to Jacobs being our lead ruck, and with Tippett (and SMcK) in the side, we don't need to play a second true ruckman.

Thanks - and I agree with you. Wall-e said it was 4th. I'll go with that

Graham was dropped this year because we were getting pumped at clearances. That stat went up when Browne came in, but Browne moves like he is towing a caravan.

Gee, imagine if we went hard for a HMac and got burnt... This is a much safer move and come 2013/4 we can go shopping

 

[Crumden]

Still think the best option is to wait until we're a better, more mature team and ready to push for an assault on a premiership then trade for a quality ruck with a quality pick.

Disagree with this bit Barnzy. I think a quality ruckman would accelerate the development of our young midfield, so the sooner we can find one the better.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Apologies for harping on it; but Maric was either fourth or seventh (depending on whose stats you believe) for hit-outs to advantage across the entire league, last year...

He's not a journeyman, he's not a star, but he's a good, passionate footballer; he did have a big form slump this year, but outside from that, he's been very good for us.

It purely comes down to Jacobs being our lead ruck, and with Tippett (and SMcK) in the side, we don't need to play a second true ruckman.

Most would label Jacobs a good honest ruckman.

Why is he ahead of Maric?

 

[rammbo]

A competent ruck is crucial for our development and maric fits the bill but only at the right price, browne is the most unco richmond player since emmett dunne and is our worst player on the list and should b cut this year without a dought.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Most would label Jacobs a good honest ruckman.

Why is he ahead of Maric?

Watch some Crows games. Jacobs is far and away a better footballer than Maric. Very underated ruckman IMO

 

[Barnzy]

Disagree with this bit Barnzy. I think a quality ruckman would accelerate the development of our young midfield, so the sooner we can find one the better.

Well, Maric isn't a quality ruck for starters.

Secondly, even if we had Dean Cox he'd still be tapping it down to hacks like Jackson and Edwards. Midfield still #1 priority for mine. It would look a bit better with a quality ruck but there's still plenty of holes there and it lacks depth. Bigger problem than most like to think. Hawthorn won a flag with Brent Renouf and Robert Campbell. Geelong still dominated games when Mark Blake was playing. Trade for a quality ruck down the track in a year or 2 ala Jolly to Collingwood. You could trade for a stop gap like Maric who's not a long-term option, sure. As I said though he would want to come ultra, ultra cheap or it's just pointless.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Well, Maric isn't a quality ruck for starters.

Secondly, even if we had Dean Cox he'd still be tapping it down to hacks like Jackson and Edwards. Midfield still #1 priority for mine. Trade for a quality ruck down the track. You could trade for a stop gap like Maric who's not a long-term option, sure. As I said though he would want to come ultra, ultra cheap.

Dusty, Cotch and Foley would probably like to have a ruck that can win a tap at some stage. Asking them to accept Browne and Graham is unfair. In round one we had Cotchin, lids and Martin at the first bounce and it was a centre square holocaust

Jacobs has been excellent, often, this year. Crows did well to pay what they did

Still have hopes for the X Man, too

 

[UpTheGuts]

Well, Maric isn't a quality ruck for starters.

Secondly, even if we had Dean Cox he'd still be tapping it down to hacks like Jackson and Edwards. Midfield still #1 priority for mine. It would look a bit better with a quality ruck but there's still plenty of holes there and it lacks depth. Bigger problem than most like to think. Hawthorn won a flag with Brent Renouf and Robert Campbell. Geelong still dominated games when Mark Blake was playing. Trade for a quality ruck down the track in a year or 2 ala Jolly to Collingwood. You could trade for a stop gap like Maric who's not a long-term option, sure. As I said though he would want to come ultra, ultra cheap or it's just pointless.

And Yabby Jeans said that with Simon Madden the hawks would have won twice as many flags in his time

Well we have said we will be active traders so if we can sell a surplus player for someone who plays where we have a deficiency, good. Veszpremi, Djukerra - the benchmark for players traded for late picks or unwanted players is not high

We definitely need to prioritise midfield, CHB and fwds in terms of the cost we pay, but this trade should be fairly easy

Would I like to get Mumford for Robbie Hicks? Yes. But let's leave the Jolly trade until we have made finals

 

[Crumden]

Well, Maric isn't a quality ruck for starters.

Secondly, even if we had Dean Cox he'd still be tapping it down to hacks like Jackson and Edwards. Midfield still #1 priority for mine. It would look a bit better with a quality ruck but there's still plenty of holes there and it lacks depth. Bigger problem than most like to think. Hawthorn won a flag with Brent Renouf and Robert Campbell. Geelong still dominated games when Mark Blake was playing. Trade for a quality ruck down the track in a year or 2 ala Jolly to Collingwood. You could trade for a stop gap like Maric who's not a long-term option, sure. As I said though he would want to come ultra, ultra cheap or it's just pointless.

I wasn't supporting Maric, but the need to get a good ruckman. I agree the midfield lacks depth, but in referring to Edwards and Jackson you are overlooking what a good ruckman could do for Cotchin, Martin, Lids, Conca, Helbig, Foley etc, as UTG said.

And collingwood didn't just wait until they were ready. Its just that the other options they tried earlier (like buying woods) didn't work. Waiting till we are "ready" (however the hell you decide that) means we only have one chance to get it right.

 

[Barnzy]

Watch some Crows games. Jacobs is far and away a better footballer than Maric. Very underated ruckman IMO

Agree.

Dusty, Cotch and Foley would probably like to have a ruck that can win a tap at some stage. Asking them to accept Browne and Graham is unfair. In round one we had Cotchin, lids and Martin at the first bounce and it was a centre square holocaust

Jacobs has been excellent, often, this year. Crows did well to pay what they did

Still have hopes for the X Man, too

That's 3 names, you need more than that to build a quality midfield. Try 8+. Deledio has played mostly HB all year. Maybe add Conca as quality option in a year or 2 ie when we're ready to trade for a quality ruck.

You mention Jacobs as a good get for Adelaide. That is a good comparision for Browne. Similar types. Browne's averages at the same age are far superior.

 

[Barnzy]

Waiting till we are "ready" (however the hell you decide that) means we only have one chance to get it right.

That's why you trade for a mature age, proven ruckman but only when the list is ready to take the next step.

We may get Maric but I fail to see how that magically improves us. Just replacing an ordinary ruck with an average, journeyman ruck. I'd also rather get games into Browne who is tracking nicely. Would Maric play VFL? As I said, would want to come very, very cheap.

 

[Goldust]

A competent ruck is crucial for our development and maric fits the bill but only at the right price, browne is the most unco richmond player since emmett dunne and is our worst player on the list and should b cut this year without a dought.

The same Emmett Dunne who played in the 1980 premiership team, also played in the '82 grand final team and kicked over 50 goals and played over 100 games at a time when we were a good team????
Don't compare Browne or even Graham to Emmett Dunne. Has them covered by some ways!!

 

[santa claws]

Maric. Meh.

He's nothing more than journeyman who is a servicable back up and not a massive upgrade on what we already have. If we picked him up people would be calling for his head by round 5. Bookmark it.

From what I've seen his ruckwork is better than that of Graham's (not hard) but he'd be nothing more than a stop gap. I'd rather play Browne #1 ruck next year who's already dominating VFL games week in week out as a just turned 21 year old than Maric get in the way. 31 touches and 31 hitouts for him on the weekend.

We should go after someone with upside if we do trade for any ruck at all not someone who will just tread water for a couple of years. Hell, Graham could even do this even though he's a dud. I'd rather the best state league ruck though. Both mentioned are not long-term solutions. Stats are misleading a lot of times but Graham leads Maric in most statistically aspects at least the last 2 years. That should tell you something. At least that Maric does little around the ground and while he's good when gets a tap he doesn't get a lot. Browne's stats are even better.

Still think the best option is to wait until we're a better, more mature team and ready to push for an assault on a premiership then trade for a quality ruck with a quality pick. Exactly what Collingwood did when they traded for Jolly. In the meantime, delist Graham and find one the best state league rucks in Australia and give him a go to see if he can be an long-term option at the level/draft another ruck while also developing Browne, Vickery and Derickx. If Maric was a PSD pick then maybe, nothing more though.

thats a good post and agree with most of it.

just let me say though i reckon browne is a couple yrs away if hes there at all.
imo vickery should be developed from here on in as the no1 ruckman but that too will take some time in the short term.

derickx may or may not come on we will find that out next yr.

the one option you over look is taking a mature ruckman for two yrs as
1/ someone the other can learn from, 2/ a short term fix that will do three things, give us more time to develop properly what we have, and also make us more competetive and make it a bit easier on our young mids like cotchin and martin.and finally adding some much needed experience and muscle.

an example of this would be say ben hudson is delisted at the dogs. go get him for nothing give him two yrs on a reasonable contract. this scenario would kill several birds with one stone.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Apologies for harping on it; but Maric was either fourth or seventh (depending on whose stats you believe) for hit-outs to advantage across the entire league, last year...

He's not a journeyman, he's not a star, but he's a good, passionate footballer; he did have a big form slump this year, but outside from that, he's been very good for us.

It purely comes down to Jacobs being our lead ruck, and with Tippett (and SMcK) in the side, we don't need to play a second true ruckman.

Most would label Jacobs a good honest ruckman.

Why is he ahead of Maric?

Watch some Crows games. Jacobs is far and away a better footballer than Maric. Very underated ruckman IMO

Exactly. Just wanted to point out that the King might be pumping up Maric's tyres just a little too much. If he were all he made him out to be, Jacobs wouldn't be such a shoe in for the no 1 ruck spot at the Crows. Fact is, he's probly not much more than a journeyman, if at all (as Barnzy said). Mind you, although Jacobs is a decent ruck, he's still only mid tier for mine.

 

[King Elvis]

Most would label Jacobs a good honest ruckman.

Why is he ahead of Maric?

To be honest, I think people labelling Jacob's that need to watch a few more Crows games.

He's still developing and finding his feet, but he's looking like a very, very good prospect for us. Considering how crap we've been this year (and our midfield has a disaster; I blame Camporeale), he's been quite good - one of the few shining lights.

Dea - The Jacobs trade was a weird one for us; I think it was borne out of Jacobs wanting to come home, and Craig feeling like he needed to land a decent trade to prove he wasn't dead against trading (to our detriment). I'm happy that we have Jacobs, but I do still find it a weird one; I (and a lot of others on our board) would've been perfectly happy with Maric as our lead ruck and Tippett as our relief guy.

If you read our board, prior to his form slump this year, Maric was almost single-handedly carrying our ruck for quite a few years, and doing a pretty good job of it, and most of us have a hell of a lot of time for him. I'm not trying to pump him up as a superstar by any stretch, but he is a good footballer.

In a normal draft year, I'd say a third rounder would be cheap, but doable (if he wanted to go to you); but this year, with the apparent low quality and compromised nature of it, a second would probably be closer ot the money.

I think you're under-rating both Jacobs and Maric a little; I maybe over-rating them both a bit - so the truth is probably somewhere in the middle

Reality is, if you can get him for a second rounder, we've done alright, if you get him for a third, you've gotten a steal - and I'm certain that after you see him play a bit more for you guys, and see what he brings to the table, you'll become a fan.

 

[rammbo]

The same Emmett Dunne who played in the 1980 premiership team, also played in the '82 grand final team and kicked over 50 goals and played over 100 games at a time when we were a good team????
Don't compare Browne or even Graham to Emmett Dunne. Has them covered by some ways!!

Yeah you r right i struggled to name someone all i could come up with, probally should of said was MOST unco ive ever seen pull on a richmond jumper.

 

[tigs2010]

Maric for Connors Need for surplus. Roughly same value.

Maric doesn't get the hit outs because he has been 2nd ruck. Last year he flogged Gus at AAMI stadium. So to say he isn't an upgrade is silly.

Obviously it comes down to cost. But if we can also nab a 2nd round pick for Edwards/Jackson we can build our midfield through that. Kavanagh/Waldhunter/Kerridge. 2 of which will be ready to go next year plus Conca with a full pre-season. Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Foley, Conca, Kavanagh, Waldhunter. Would trade Foley with compo for an early pick off GWS this year or a 17yo like Crouch (Tuck to fill the hole for 2012). Add our 1st rounder next year (maybe someone like Vlastuin) and that's our 8 mids plus Kerridge when he's ready (hopefully by 2013). 2013 draft we can trade away our 1st rounder for a good ruck i believe to complete the midfield.

 

[Barnzy]

Maric for Connors Need for surplus. Roughly same value.

Connors is much more than surplus when fit.

Maric doesn't get the hit outs because he has been 2nd ruck.

That's simply incorrect. He was their #1 ruck in 2010 and carried a lot the workload. Adelaide supporter just mentioned this. He played 21 games for 270 hitouts at an average of 17 a game.

 

[nut]

I hope we dont pay overs for a second rate ruck when we could get away with Browne, Graham and the X for another season or 2...

The biggest issue is why the club hasn't rookied more young Rucks....

 

[Kyusss]

The thing people arent considering is what we need to give up

Its easy to kick back and say MARIC IS CRAP LETS GET MITCH CLARKE LETS GET ZACH CLARKE CMON RICHMOND YOUR CRAP

But the facts are our midfield needs players, and if we wanna go after Mitch Clarke or Zach Clarke we need to give up our First Round Pick No Question.

When Players like Mitchell Grigg or Toby Greene are possibly going to be available at pick 10-12 im very happy to be looking at Ivan Maric, wont cost much more than a 3rd rounder will allow us to get another genuine good mid with our first pick and his 25 and has shown he can play as a number 1 ruckman, if nothing else he will compete for a spot and make graham and browne really earn their stripes, Hell i wont be upset if we trade for Maric than rookie list Mark Blake and Draft a ruckman if we have to, Maric Derickx Graham Browne on the senior list Blake on a Rookie list at least they have to earn games, at the minute we play graham he taps well and tackles well but looks like his 10kg to heavy cant get to contests and is crouched over half dead by qtr time so we get browne in who trys his hardest but still needs years to develop! competition for spots is crucial im happy to go after Maric and keep our good picks

 

[Kyusss]

I hope we dont pay overs for a second rate ruck when we could get away with Browne, Graham and the X for another season or 2...

The biggest issue is why the club hasn't rookied more young Rucks....

agreed rookie list seems like an ideal place to have a developing ruckman

 

[TigerTime88]

I like the idea...but i think Seaby could be a better option than Maric.

 

[tigs2010]

agreed rookie list seems like an ideal place to have a developing ruckman

THis year we should have 3/4 spots and would expect an 18yo and hopefully a state league 22-24yo on there.

Connors is much more than surplus when fit.



That's simply incorrect. He was their #1 ruck in 2010 and carried a lot the workload. Adelaide supporter just mentioned this. He played 21 games for 270 hitouts at an average of 17 a game.

Surplus was probably the wrong word but we do have a lot of back flankers/wings (Dea/Houli/Batchelor/Deledio/Conca/Jakobi)

Fact is he hadn't done much before 2010 been injured all of this year. Has had attitude issues. Lacks a real defensive side which is why i believe Dea/Batchelor will get a gig ahead of him. And Houli is a better kick than him.

Fact is Griffin also played 11 games last year in the ruck so would have taken some of his game time away. He's a far better kick than Gus is. His Hitouts to Advantage are better based on stats. And as Adelaide supporters have said he is competetive and gives his all. Gus doesn't do that. He also had 37 HO against us at AAMI and was one of the biggest reasons they flogged us.

Im not trying to say he's a star and id rather just use Graham if the guy can be competetive like he was Sunday but fact is he hasnt been. He is lazy as they come.

In 2 or 3 years time when we are top 8 or pushing top 4 then we should give up our first rounder for a quality one.

 

[Kyusss]

I like the idea...but i think Seaby could be a better option than Maric.

i started a thread on this 2 years ago and got shot down, but i like seaby as a ruck and would still consider him for sure

 

[Barnzy]

Surplus was probably the wrong word but we do have a lot of back flankers/wings (Dea/Houli/Batchelor/Deledio/Conca/Jakobi)

We do but I wouldn't count Dea as one. See him playing lockdown small defender. Conca will eventually be a midfielder. If Connors gets fit next year hopefully that allows Deledio into the mdifield. Jakobi is unknown, hasn't done much.

Fact is Griffin also played 11 games last year in the ruck so would have taken some of his game time away. He's a far better kick than Gus is. His Hitouts to Advantage are better based on stats. And as Adelaide supporters have said he is competetive and gives his all. Gus doesn't do that. He also had 37 HO against us at AAMI and was one of the biggest reasons they flogged us.

I agree with some of that, although even if Griffin did play 11 game Maric's numbers as #1 ruck should be much better.

Also that 37 hitout game against us was probably close to his best ever game, maybe that's why you have an inflated sense of his worth. Then he went back to being average agaisnt everyone else. If he comes cheaply it won't be the end of the world, just when people are carrying on about Maric 5 weeks into 2012, don't say I didn't tell you so. I'd rather try looking for a player who has more upside rather than a player who will just take the hits until we're ready to spend on better quality. Given Z. Clarke is probably out of the picture, J.Griffin wouldn't be bad. His output this year has been very high when filling in for Sandilands. Got family over there but a promise of the number #1 spot him might be enough.

In 2 or 3 years time when we are top 8 or pushing top 4 then we should give up our first rounder for a quality one.

Yes, agree.