Time to get something clear...

[DarwinRoo]

i didn't start the thread about you blokes moving anywhere, although you've gotta suspect there's serious plans in place to move them to the gold coast.....i only joined in coz, as a swans fan who's from nsw, i am absolutely sick and tired of being labelled a five-minute fan who knows nothing about footy, AND of hearing fans of the vic teams whine and sook about interstate dominance and how they wanna go back to a vfl....i grew up in a rugby league household but have barely followed the code for almost 20 years, and i am absolutely certain there's a whole lot of "five-minute" league fans here in melbourne, either storm fans or not, who know a helluva lot more about league than i ever did...
as for last saturday night, i'll say again, grow up....it was one game, in fact it was one quarter, you guys deserved to win, but it was round six, let's see where the roos and swans are, respectively, after round 22...

You were never labelled a 5 minute fan. Mickdog was.

I also think you would find that most Victorians would have been supporting the Sydney Swans in the 2005 final. Why? Maybe because of the South Melbourne connection. Us Vic club supporters can understand the joy that Bobby Skilton would have felt to finally see his beloved Swans finally win a premiership. Can Sydney Swans supporters say the same thing or is it more a case of Bobby who?

And by the way my sisters and myself were never forced to barrack for the club my Father (North Melbourne) and Mother (South Melbourne) supported. Out of 5 kids only my 3rd oldest sister and myself barracked for North Melbourne. My oldest sister was a Magpies supporter and my second oldest and the youngest were Carlton supporters.

 

[Wildmanwok]

Deep down we all know Mickdog is right. We just dont want to admit it and we dont want it to be our club that merges or moves.
It's gunna happen.
This TV money aint gonna keep coming in forever, and the sickest clubs at the time of that money not being there will die.
I guarantee you that there will be less clubs in 10-20 yrs.

What a load of defeatist crap.

You know one day im gonna die, might as well shoot myself now mentality.

 

[Wildmanwok]

Assuming Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon are the few Victorian teams and only 1 team in each state, discounting the territories.For the sake of this exercise let's assume the Eagles & Adelaide are the WA & SA teams respectively

So your idea to generate more money is to:

Alienate the members of the 7 other Victorian clubs, many of which will never support one of those 3 clubs. In essence dropping about 150-200,000 members or 150,00x$200= $40,000,000

Losing nearly all the Docker & Port members, or another 60,000 paying members or 60,000x$200= $12,000,000

That is already a $52,000,000 loss from people who would not follow those teams. Then when you factor into that the dramatic drop in games from 8 games a week to 4 games a week. Not only will that have a negative affect on the money received at the gate, it will also mean a dramatic loss in T.V rights as there is less games. Also after alienating 200-300,000 people, they would most likely not watch the T.V shows meaning that not only would you have less total people going to a lesser amount of games, but you would also have a lower T.V ratings. To make it simple lets just halve the amount of the most recent T.V rights deal. That is an extra loss of $390,000,000.

Now all the alienating and cutting of teams we have lost $442,000,000 from when we had 16 teams. Now you are expecting the teams to quadruple their costs via the salary cap and expanded lists. Now even though all of the teams, bar Carlton, made a profit last year, would they still make a profit after quadrupling the amount of money they would need to spend on the salary cap? The answer is quite clearly no. The teams would go from paying 7 odd million dollars on the cap, to paying 28 odd millions dollars on the salary cap. Assuming it is an 8 team comp that is $224,000,000 that is going to the players. To contrast it to now, the players get $112,000,000 through the salary cap.

You said that this would piss off some fans but money would win out, but after a pretty basic look at it, it shows that it is money that is keeping the AFL from downsizing the competition. But then again in spite of having heightened costs lower revenue, we would have UNBIASED DRAWS!!!!!!!!!!!

i think he meant a superleague in competition to the AFL

 

[Wildmanwok]

You really are stupid and I really find it somewhat poor to be selective when quoting. This has been explained.

Like I said, the AFL want teams in Gold Coast and Western Sydney. They control where the money go's. You think that they will continue to help a struggling club when they want them to move to another area? Of course they won't unless you move.

Deadset its like i'm trying to educate simpletons

Says who?
Show me the proof of this statement or are you trying to tell me your in Vlad's head?

You are so obsessed with exterminating or relocating teams. Its not required. The AFL (a brand of 16 clubs) has mega money and could prop up clubs for the next century if it wants.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Oh look at me, I'm from Victoria so therefore i am f****** king s*** when it comes to AFL knowledge.

Dry Rot lives in Sydney and as far as I know it's been more than 20 years ago since he was last in Victoria.

 

[Wildmanwok]

But the kangaroos supporters dont live in the dark ages of the VFL. not so long ago they were the best lot going around. Posts like these make me think the VFL shouldve stayed as the VFL

No the AFL is good.
Some fans just dont quite get that there is no reason to relocate teams.
Create new ones or upgrade existing ones into the AFL.

 

[Mickdog]

Says who?
Show me the proof of this statement or are you trying to tell me your in Vlad's head?

You are so obsessed with exterminating or relocating teams. Its not required. The AFL (a brand of 16 clubs) has mega money and could prop up clubs for the next century if it wants.

It has the money currently to prop up clubs. May always have that money. But to attain that money they need TV rights. If a new team is formed in WS and GC then that adds more money. For some reason the AFL would prefer to move a club rather then start up new ones (I would prefer the latter but it has been previously said that there will be only 16 clubs) those clubs are obviously Kangas and Bulldogs.

Just wish the AFL would hurry up and move them or start new teams. It will add more money to the kitty to prop up new clubs or old ones

 

[Exe Gesis]

I'd rather the 6 interstate teams mutineed, and started a superleague comp, where the admin of the SL will be far more sincere and return the rules of the game to where it was before the AFL tampered with it, and invite only 4 franchise conglomerate Vic clubs into the SL. The AFL couldn't afford that and would renegotiate new terms and conditions that remove the Vic centricity, lies and treachery of the AFL. Negotiate the removal of the existing AFL commision to re-establish a more genuine system.

Establishment of AFL records separate from VFL.
Establishment of second tier records for all state leagues for themselves.
Establishment of a truer HOF.
No AFL ownership of brands etc. All clubs own their own identities. No restrictions on club colors and the like.
Enforcement of Shirts v Skins home and away season.
Bring in two more expansion teams...one of them being Tasmania. With direction towards GC, NT, Cairns, ACT in future focus.
22 round comp with each team playing each team twice.
No ground favoritism or Friday night favoritism.
Etc.

 

[Mickdog]

I'd rather the 6 interstate teams mutineed, and started a superleague comp, where the admin of the SL will be far more sincere and return the rules of the game to where it was before the AFL tampered with it, and invite only 4 franchise conglomerate Vic clubs into the SL. The AFL couldn't afford that and would renegotiate new terms and conditions that remove the Vic centricity, lies and treachery of the AFL. Negotiate the removal of the existing AFL commision to re-establish a more genuine system.

Establishment of AFL records separate from VFL.
Establishment of second tier records for all state leagues for themselves.
Establishment of a truer HOF.
No AFL ownership of brands etc. All clubs own their own identities. No restrictions on club colors and the like.
Enforcement of Shirts v Skins home and away season.
Bring in two more expansion teams...one of them being Tasmania. With direction towards GC, NT, Cairns, ACT in future focus.
22 round comp with each team playing each team twice.
No ground favoritism or Friday night favoritism.
Etc.

Would be the best way to go but I think your dreaming.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Would be the best way to go but I think your dreaming.

I can assure you that's not what I dream about. However, screw the AFL. Something's gotta give. The way it's all going it wont last. It's heckin'g too much with everything. Lost its credibility, and corrupt.

 

[memberforever]

Would be the best way to go but I think your dreaming.

Go for it who cares

 

[mantis]

I'd rather the 6 interstate teams mutineed, and started a superleague comp, where the admin of the SL will be far more sincere and return the rules of the game to where it was before the AFL tampered with it, and invite only 4 franchise conglomerate Vic clubs into the SL. The AFL couldn't afford that and would renegotiate new terms and conditions that remove the Vic centricity, lies and treachery of the AFL. Negotiate the removal of the existing AFL commision to re-establish a more genuine system.

Establishment of AFL records separate from VFL.
Establishment of second tier records for all state leagues for themselves.
Establishment of a truer HOF.
No AFL ownership of brands etc. All clubs own their own identities. No restrictions on club colors and the like.
Enforcement of Shirts v Skins home and away season.
Bring in two more expansion teams...one of them being Tasmania. With direction towards GC, NT, Cairns, ACT in future focus.
22 round comp with each team playing each team twice.
No ground favoritism or Friday night favoritism.
Etc.

And then you woke up.

 

[Exe Gesis]

And then you woke up.

I've got plenty more of those statements, so clearly I havent yet. Nor will I. Not while I sit there watching the farce that the AFL has turned the game into. Hard to stomach the on-field product. The AFL over-branding. The sell your mother for a dime mentality. The pathetic weak-kneed mindless adminstration that exists there currently. Etc.

 

[mantis]

I'd rather the 6 interstate teams mutineed, and started a superleague comp, where the admin of the SL will be far more sincere and return the rules of the game to where it was before the AFL tampered with it, and invite only 4 franchise conglomerate Vic clubs into the SL. The AFL couldn't afford that and would renegotiate new terms and conditions that remove the Vic centricity, lies and treachery of the AFL. Negotiate the removal of the existing AFL commision to re-establish a more genuine system.

Establishment of AFL records separate from VFL.
Establishment of second tier records for all state leagues for themselves.
Establishment of a truer HOF.
No AFL ownership of brands etc. All clubs own their own identities. No restrictions on club colors and the like.
Enforcement of Shirts v Skins home and away season.
Bring in two more expansion teams...one of them being Tasmania. With direction towards GC, NT, Cairns, ACT in future focus.
22 round comp with each team playing each team twice.
No ground favoritism or Friday night favoritism.
Etc.

Just on the highlighted bit, what year exactly would those AFL records start, seeing as all you interlopers came in at different times?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Just on the highlighted bit, what year exactly would those AFL records start, seeing as all you interlopers came in at different times?

Thats a tricky one. Swans moved in 82. Eagles, Bears 87. Name change 90. Etc. But National Draft probably the more relevant moment in history.

 

[Matt_TY]

South Melbourne won a premiership on the back of a bunch of WA players in 1933.

That, as a point of interest, is why they're called "The Swans".

 

[Exe Gesis]

South Melbourne won a premiership on the back of a bunch of WA players in 1933.

That, as a point of interest, is why they're called "The Swans".

Further emphazises the point why SANFL.WAFL were great leagues full of great talent and you bastards have been needful of them to enhance your own VFL and now AFL comps.

 

[mantis]

Further emphazises the point why SANFL.WAFL were great leagues full of great talent and you bastards have been needful of them to enhance your own VFL and now AFL comps.

EERRRR no, they all wanted to play in the top league VFL, so they happily left their little state leagues behind.

 

[Exe Gesis]

EERRRR no, they all wanted to play in the top league VFL, so they happily left their little state leagues behind.

Not entirely true. Players used to often freelance between leagues. The three main state leagues (even NZ, and also qld, tas) used to often participate in carnivals, friendlies, and coaches/players exchanging ideas found in other leagues regarding fitness etc.

Post war, especially 60's onwards, obviously the Vic economy/population/industry boomed, and therefore it was inevitable that the money etc would be there and the talent would go that way.

But be careful what you diss about SA/WA in terms of talent, because the VFL product itself and the teams who won flags 70's onwards benefited hugely from the talent that poured into the VFL. If not for them then, and if not for them when your VFL was sagging woefully in the 80s, needing a national game, the VFL was going nowhere.

It's just this modern day crop of Victorians mainly (ie, you lot) who have a shameful disregard of the game and the contributions to the game from interstate.

 

[Matt_TY]

Not entirely true. Players used to often freelance between leagues. The three main state leagues (even NZ, and also qld, tas) used to often participate in carnivals, friendlies, and coaches/players exchanging ideas found in other leagues regarding fitness etc.

Post war, especially 60's onwards, obviously the Vic economy/population/industry boomed, and therefore it was inevitable that the money etc would be there and the talent would go that way.

But be careful what you diss about SA/WA in terms of talent, because the VFL product itself and the teams who won flags 70's onwards benefited hugely from the talent that poured into the VFL. If not for them then, and if not for them when your VFL was sagging woefully in the 80s, needing a national game, the VFL was going nowhere.

It's just this modern day crop of Victorians mainly (ie, you lot) who have a shameful disregard of the game and the contributions to the game from interstate.

Well? Go found your Dream League then. We'll be here in reality, in the competition that interstate bids fought with each other to join. Or do you need a reminder of the Port/Crows counterbids in 1990?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Well? Go found your Dream League then. We'll be here in reality, in the competition that interstate bids fought with each other to join. Or do you need a reminder of the Port/Crows counterbids in 1990?

Before we do that tho, we'll continue dominating the afl and vic teams first. Stamp them with our heels. All interstate clubs. Enjoy your money and supermarketed "collingwood" brand in the meantime.

 

[jacko57]

Maybe you can construct a sentance properly before critisizing others

Hilarious !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mantis]

Hilarious !!!!!!!!!!!

He's not too bright our mickdog.

 

[Matt_TY]

Before we do that tho, we'll continue dominating the afl and vic teams first. Stamp them with our heels. All interstate clubs. Enjoy your money and supermarketed "collingwood" brand in the meantime.

I love my club and always will. Thankyou for your sarcasm though, also for your dreams of total dominance. Lots of people throughout history have thought their reigns would last forever

 

[Exe Gesis]

I love my club and always will. Thankyou for your sarcasm though, also for your dreams of total dominance. Lots of people throughout history have thought their reigns would last forever

You mean like Eddie McGuire?

He's clearly megalomaniac. Not just regarding this heritage issue, but with Stkilda and North, and outside of football, Footy Show, radio interviews, Ch 9 capacity.

That guy is headed for a major fall. As his repute has grown so have incidents of his megalomania and poor morals and even untoward business practices will come to bear I wouldn't be surprised.