Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

Which AFC deserter were/are you most salty towards?

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What irks me about this is how Kurt and his management clearly went to Sydney a few weeks ago and said: "I want to play for you, and thankfully for you, it'll only cost you a 2nd round pick due to my agreement with the Crows."

Now Kurt and his management didn't need to make that known, because if he'd nominated Sydney, and they'd agreed to pay him a certain amount, then that places the onus on Sydney to arrange a commercially fair deal for Adelaide as far as a trade is concerned. They would probably have had to cough up Rohan + 23. But because Kurt passed this knowledge onto them, they lowballed us from the beginning. Now why on Earth would he do that, knowing that it only hurts the Crows?

What a ****
 
Mighty Chinook said:
What irks me about this is how Kurt and his management clearly went to Sydney a few weeks ago and said: "I want to play for you, and thankfully for you, it'll only cost you a 2nd round pick due to my agreement with the Crows."

Now Kurt and his management didn't need to make that known, because if he'd nominated Sydney, and they'd agreed to pay him a certain amount, then that places the onus on Sydney to arrange a commercially fair deal for Adelaide as far as a trade is concerned. They would probably have had to cough up Rohan + 23. But because Kurt passed this knowledge onto them, they lowballed us from the beginning. Now why on Earth would he do that, knowing that it only hurts the Crows?

What a ****
Click to expand...

I assume/hope that the Crows intended that other party would not be in knowledge of the agreement and that the 2nd round draft pick was to be an unknown reserve(in the auctioning sense). This way we always intended not to draft tamper, but of course there has been nothing in this story to date that suggests the Crows were smart enough for even that.

EDIT: The contract was out of the bag a long time before Sydney showed interest :(
 
I no longer care if Tippett gets picked up by GWS or makes it through to Sydney. I don't care what sanctions the AFL imposes. I don't care who gets sacked.

I back our players to again challenge for the premiership next year, fully supported by Sando and the other coaches and all of the staff and volunteers and whatever management survives or is brought in as replacements.

The club is still full of honest and hard working men and women, and our task is now as it has always been: to win next year's premiership, no matter what is thrown at us. We are right behind those people.

Those who put us in this position, for whatever well-intended reasons, can get stuffed. We are the Adelaide Football Club, and they will not defeat us.
 

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Mighty Chinook said:
What irks me about this is how Kurt and his management clearly went to Sydney a few weeks ago and said: "I want to play for you, and thankfully for you, it'll only cost you a 2nd round pick due to my agreement with the Crows."

Now Kurt and his management didn't need to make that known, because if he'd nominated Sydney, and they'd agreed to pay him a certain amount, then that places the onus on Sydney to arrange a commercially fair deal for Adelaide as far as a trade is concerned. They would probably have had to cough up Rohan + 23. But because Kurt passed this knowledge onto them, they lowballed us from the beginning. Now why on Earth would he do that, knowing that it only hurts the Crows?

What a ****
Click to expand...
:thumbsu::)
two ways of looking at it:

1. as you have said above

2. That Sydney entered the race for Tippett believing already that they would not have to give up quality players or much to get Tippett

Was Ireland given a wink wink by Blucher over a red ......or did his daughter working for Velocity overhear discussions and have a quiet word in dads ear

But you're right why would Tippett try and do the dirty on a club that has only ever looked after his interests
Could have said nothing BUT encouraged Sydney to do right thing by Adelaide ......and I'll only come if a fair deal is done

But no Tippett is about Tippett inc :mad:
 
Moonwatcher said:
I assume/hope that the Crows intended that other party would not be in knowledge of the agreement and that the 2nd round draft pick was to be an unknown reserve(in the auctioning sense). This way we always intended not to draft tamper, but of course there has been nothing in this story to date that suggests the Crows were smart enough for even that.

EDIT: The contract was out of the bag a long time before Sydney showed interest :(
Click to expand...
What this does tell us is that ....the Crows have to grow up and look outside of the "sleepy" Adelaide environment and understand how the ruthless, cut-throat business world operates''

We have at the very least been very naive
 
What about the idea that we are all partially responsible because we put so much pressure on the club to resign Tippett after we had lost Davis and Bock. Even after we knew that Tippett was going there was no way that "we" were going to be happy with the White and 23 senario. This is one of the points that Caro made on 5AA last week, i.e. that the AFC is under enormous pressure and scrutiny from the media and the public in SA. I took this as a dig at Rucci.
 
Vader said:
Nowhere in the AFL Player Rules does it specify anything about these arrangements being done at "arms length" from the club. Here's the relevant quotes from the section on "Arrangements for Additional Services":


There is nothing there about the club having to be at arm's length from the payments. Indeed, most of these arrangements would be made through the club. As long as the AFL General Manager - Football Operations is satisfied that it's all above board, then that's all that is required.
Click to expand...
Additional services payments are different to 3rd party deals. Each club gets a certain amount to spend, around $700,000 i think to pay players for such things as marketing, membership promotions, clinics etc.
The 3rd party deals are done outside of the club by the managers and a 3rd party. The club must not get involved in any negotiations of these deals. The AFL allowed these deals due to threats of legal action for restraint of trade. Any 3rd party deals are to be ticked off by the AFL and outside the cap. About 120 players have these deals.
It appears that Adelaide have involved themselves in any 3rd party deals, which is not allowed. It is irrelevant if these payments would not take you over the cap, they are OUTSIDE the cap, this is not allowed.
At worst you will cop a similar penalty to Carlton, who were punished more on the fact they had an elaborate system in place to pay players Silvagni and Williams. Something that Carlton volunteered to the AFL during the investigation, otherwise it would never have been uncovered.
At the time of Carlton's penalties the AFL warned clubs not to cheat as these are the consequences.
Carlton were stripped of the first 3 rounds of the draft in 2002, the preseason draft in 2002 and from the first 2 rounds of the 2003 draft. Effectively, picks 1,2, 20, mid 30 in 2002 and picks 5 and 20 in 2003 were the penalty plus a fine of around $900,000.
If you cop a similar penalty it wont impact you anywhere near how it impacted us. I am sure a loss of a pick in the 20's and the next one wont be the end of the world, as would a fine. If you are stripped of picks it will just mean you wont have a pick until around 4 or so. Carlton didnt enter the draft until pick 45 of 2002 (Kade Simpson by the way) and had picks in the 60's and 70's. Our penalty was also announced 36 hours before the national draft.
The instigator of these payments, John Elliot had been ousted by the members, so the innocent were left to pick up the pieces.
It will very interesting to see how the AFL handles this and what is done to Tippett. Greg Williams was deregistered for 11 weeks in his part in salary cap breaches when he was a Swans player. Ironically the penalty was when he was traded to Carlton. Is it any wonder Carlton supporters are a bit paranoid.
 
Iva Bigun said:
It's the Gold Coast, development deals are as dodgy as well.........Crows management :D
Click to expand...

Nah, our management are babes in the wood and no good at this stuff - that's why we got caught.

And why we've opened our books to show the AFL we never did this sort of thing.......until getting into bed with a gold coast developer (not that I like to stereo-type people).
 
A FEW GOOD MEN said:
I agree with Dr B that we have clearly breached the rules but our defence is likely to be

1) It was not our intention to break the rules, we're naive and dumb schmucks fro Adelaide

2) The outcome of our guarantees to Kurt could have been covered under the salary cap and did not eventuate so we didn't gain any advantage.
Click to expand...
Surely the whole purpose of Adelaide agreeing to the 'get home' clause and to underwrite any shortfall in external earnings was to get Tippett to extend his contract.
If that was the case and seeing Tippett did re-sign then there was a clear advantage/benefit to the AFC.
 
In the end i think this will be good for the club.

No more Tippett, no more pandering to greedy primadonnas.

I think this will galvanise the playing group. Encouraging thinking of the collective playing group rather than greedy individualism.

Also for next year an easy us against them motivational opportunity.
 

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Wayne's-World said:
:thumbsu::)
two ways of looking at it:

1. as you have said above

2. That Sydney entered the race for Tippett believing already that they would not have to give up quality players or much to get Tippett

Was Ireland given a wink wink by Blucher over a red ......or did his daughter working for Velocity overhear discussions and have a quiet word in dads ear

But you're right why would Tippett try and do the dirty on a club that has only ever looked after his interests
Could have said nothing BUT encouraged Sydney to do right thing by Adelaide ......and I'll only come if a fair deal is done

But no Tippett is about Tippett inc :mad:
Click to expand...

If you look at total cost of a player to a club it incorporates several factors - the three most obvious being:
(1) money paid directly to each player
(2) how much the player costs to purchase in trades
(3) how much they cost to train to an acceptable skill level

If Tippett's group made it known to Sydney he could be bought cheaply because of his side-contract (and there is no way on earth he would not have made it known), this reduces the total cost to Sydney and also leaves more room for his side to be topped up with more cash, whilst still keeping his overall cost low.

As with all his deals, he divulged this information for more $$$ - he did not care if this screwed Adelaide in the process.

He probably justifies this with Ayn Rand-like philosophy ... that his current skills are solely due to him - the Crows were lucky to have him and the club had no effect on how fabulous he thinks he is. He probably thinks he would be this great no matter where he was trained. (not that he is THAT great as we all know).

Incidentally, the Crows are amongst the best clubs in the AFL at training raw talent.
AFC had one of the world's experts on skill acquisition, Prof Damian Farrow, helping here (just imagine how bad his kicking would have been without this!). They put considerable resources into player development.
Swans are the worst at training young players from the draft but the best at pinching them from other clubs. This is pretty smart really - saves a lot of money ...

Of the three items listed for Tippett, only the first (player wage) is high. Trading cost was negligible as were his training costs ...
 
BACCS said:
As awesome as those tweets are, anyone reckon the club will tell them to quietly take them down ASAP?
Click to expand...

No chance. They're not abusing him or belittling him. Its just a bit harmless fun, while showing their disappointment at his decision and actions. Fans love it.
 
Mighty Chinook said:
What irks me about this is how Kurt and his management clearly went to Sydney a few weeks ago and said: "I want to play for you, and thankfully for you, it'll only cost you a 2nd round pick due to my agreement with the Crows."

Now Kurt and his management didn't need to make that known, because if he'd nominated Sydney, and they'd agreed to pay him a certain amount, then that places the onus on Sydney to arrange a commercially fair deal for Adelaide as far as a trade is concerned. They would probably have had to cough up Rohan + 23. But because Kurt passed this knowledge onto them, they lowballed us from the beginning. Now why on Earth would he do that, knowing that it only hurts the Crows?

What a ****
Click to expand...

One reason, it increases his desireability to Sydney since Sydney likely thought they couldnt get a trade completed otherwise.

Think about it if Frankllin wanted to go to Adelaide you would likely say we can afford your wage but not meet your trade value then he says my team made a secret deal with me and you can get me for a second round pick.

Seriously though WTF were Adelaide thinking? a very good player at the time for a second round pick, that is a big carrot to dangle in frount of opposition teams. Adelaide should have at least make the deal reliant on the agreement being kept secret from opposition teams.
 
mark121 said:
One reason, it increases his desireability to Sydney since Sydney likely thought they couldnt get a trade completed otherwise.

Think about it if Frankllin wanted to go to Adelaide you would likely say we can afford your wage but not meet your trade value then he says my team made a secret deal with me and you can get me for a second round pick.

Seriously though WTF were Adelaide thinking? a very good player at the time for a second round pick, that is a big carrot to dangle in frount of opposition teams. Adelaide should have at least make the deal reliant on the agreement being kept secret from opposition teams.
Click to expand...
Well, if you had bothered to read anything about the issue, that was kinda the plan.
 
hdecure said:
No chance. They're not abusing him or belittling him. Its just a bit harmless fun, while showing their disappointment at his decision and actions. Fans love it.
Click to expand...


Where is the 'disappointment with his decisions and actions' bit?

Odds are our playing group remains friends with him.
 
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