Toast TLR calls for vote on guernsey - update: Members vote for Premiership/Fitzroy Lion - it's back baby!

[LionKing]

Hi guys.

Just to clarify on behalf of the Club, the initial survey is designed to simply determine whether members want to change our existing guernsey.

If the overwhelming response is 'YES', then members will be consulted further on what type of change they would like to occur - whether it be reverting back to the old design or perhaps something new altogether.

Why has the club all of a sudden decided to consult members about changing the jumper?

 

[Always a Lion]

That's hard to say. Obviously only those members who take the time to complete the survey will be counted, while those who don't will probably be considered 'indifferent'.

But hypothetically, let's say only 10 members fill out the survey and six of those members request a change to the guernsey. In that case, it might be hard to justify that the majority of members want change. This is an extreme example, but you get my drift.

That's why we're encouraging ALL members to participate in the survey, because we want as many members as possible to have their say so that the Club can get a more accurate representation.

That said, we're certainly not expecting to receive a completed survey from every member, but we're hoping to at least get a decent sized sample.

Thanks L.I. Really appreciate the dialogue.

I suggest that no assumption should be on behalf of non participating members, whether yes, no or indifferent.

How the 'indifferent' members opinions will be considered really concerns me. That is will they be seen as being neutral and therefore just ignored or not included in the Yes/No equation, or will they be interpreted as not having an assumed opinion, therefore loaded onto the status quo?

For what it is worth, I think a non participating member should simply not be considered in the survey at all, only Yes/Nos should count.

 

[western royboy]

Why has the club all of a sudden decided to consult members about changing the jumper?

Angus is trying to maintain Board control - the only way he can is get punters onside to vote for him if it comes to the crunch - which he doesn't want to get to. If he can appease the disaffected Board Members and get them to withdraw from an election he wins.

Politics 101

 

[Tairy Greene]

Come on guys, it's been stated a few times that Angus mentioned putting it to a members vote before the spill happened.

 

[LionKing]

Angus is trying to maintain Board control - the only way he can is get punters onside to vote for him if it comes to the crunch - which he doesn't want to get to. If he can appease the disaffected Board Members and get them to withdraw from an election he wins.

Politics 101

Cheers - hope people can see through his b/s

Angus has had ample opportunity to connect with members/supporters on issues concerning the club. Time to go.

 

[LionKing]

Come on guys, it's been stated a few times that Angus mentioned putting it to a members vote before the spill happened.

I maybe wrong Tairy, but I don't recall receiving an email about it before the spill was on the cards?

 

[Hollow Knight]

I maybe wrong Tairy, but I don't recall receiving an email about it before the spill was on the cards?

There was no email about it but he flagged it in a radio interview a week or so before the spill.

 

[MacMum]

Being such an important step for our club.....I think it is important for ALL members to be consulted and offered the survey to fill in....as has been mentioned, not everyone has email facilities.

If the club are serious and want to be seen to be open, honest and above board, they should be going back to the old fashioned way of writing letters to all members. That gives everyone a chance to participate in the survey.

Afterall, we were expected to actually write a letter to them just recently....they can do the same.

 

[Angus72]

Being such an important step for our club.....I think it is important for ALL members to be consulted and offered the survey to fill in....as has been mentioned, not everyone has email facilities.

If the club are serious and want to be seen to be open, honest and above board, they should be going back to the old fashioned way of writing letters to all members. That gives everyone a chance to participate in the survey.

Afterall, we were expected to actually write a letter to them just recently....they can do the same.

That would be a great way of doing it Macmum but either way I am sure Angus will have the propaganda machine working overtime.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Posting surveys to 24,000 members would cost probably in the vicinity of $20k. Double that if they enclose reply paid envelopes. Then double that again if they do a second round of consultation.

Not exactly pocket change for a club in our financial position.

In light of that, I think email probably gives you the best hit rate for negligible cost. I don't think I am being too controversial in saying that there is very little excuse not to have an email address these days.

 

[ZoBlitz]

And having worked in a direct mailing company that sent out and processed a lot of surveys, it's hard enough to get people to return paper surveys in a reasonable time, condition and correctly filled out. Web surveys cut down on a lot of those issues. Also with web surveys you don't need a number of people to process the forms - sorting, possibly scanning and verifying the forms if the Lions want to keep a computer record of the information which they probably would. You'd also need the equipment to do this. Information can be collated so much better with web surveys.

(Remembering the trauma of dealing with people sending in surveys that they had apparently used as a floating device in the pool or those that sent us cheques for their phone bills since we did a few of Telstra's mail campaigns. Or the rule that the people with the worst hand writing in the world would obviously write the most and we had to try and decipher their ramblings!)

 

[chopperduck]

It's no conspiracy, we asked them to do it, and the did flag weeks ago that it may happen. On the flip side, I'm also concerned that those who don't answer or participate are labelled as 'indifferent' which with a question like this one pretty much lumps them in with the nos. only members who actually give a yes or no should be counted, especially when ruling will go off a majority rules type scenario.

 

[Hollow Knight]

That's hard to say. Obviously only those members who take the time to complete the survey will be counted, while those who don't will probably be considered 'indifferent'.

The only thing they should be counted as being "indifferent" to is completing surveys.

Reading anything else into it other than that seems very spurious. It would be like counting everyone who didn't vote in the US Presidential election as support for the current president.

 

[adey115]

Or, every Donkey vote in the recent election was actually a vote for Clive Palmer....

 

[adey115]

Moving on... i definitely agree that surveys the aren't completed should not be counted as a Yes or a No. Even labelling them indifferent is a label that they don't deserve.
How about labelling them "my computer was broken", or "I'm on holidays", or "my email address was wrong" or any other reason, rather than even considering them as potentially part of either a "Yes" or "No".

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yep, democracy belongs to those that show up and participate.

 

[royboy2]

I spoke to the club RE: the email dilemma, (as some of my older relo's don't have one).
I was advised that the club will be sending a link for the survey, and either before or upon completing the survey. You get asked to enter your membership details, I was told the link isn't idividual so I can enter their numbers and complete the survey for them.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I spoke to the club RE: the email dilemma, (as some of my older relo's don't have one).
I was advised that the club will be sending a link for the survey, and either before or upon completing the survey. You get asked to enter your membership details, I was told the link isn't idividual so I can enter their numbers and complete the survey for them.

A good compromise.

 

[Mazza44]

That concerns me as AFL members do not have membership numbers as far as I'm aware...

 

[Registered User]

I reckon this is the best Lions jumper ever, by a mile, but i barrack for Richmond, so I suppose my opinion won't count for much on here. I can't find a great photo of it, but it looked awesome when they wore it a few years ago.
The white emblem really stands out, and the 'hard' 'c' looks tougher than the round 'c' on the Carlton emblem. The emblem obviously can't have 2 'F's in it, but I still reckon this style would look good with a 'B' in it.
The darker blue and maroon look better than the lighter colours. The only 'problem' is finding a spot for some gold; maybe the bands on the 'sleeves'

 

[Scubaveg]

I reckon this is the best Lions jumper ever, by a mile, but i barrack for Richmond, so I suppose my opinion won't count for much on here. I can't find a great photo of it, but it looked awesome when they wore it a few years ago.
The white emblem really stands out, and the 'hard' 'c' looks tough than the round 'c' on the Carlton emblem. The emblem obviously can't have 2 'F's in it, but I still reckon this style would look good with a 'B' in it.
The darker blue and maroon look better than the lighter colours. The only 'problem' is finding a spot for some gold; maybe the bands on the 'sleeves'

Nope, no recognition of the Bears there.

 

[Haso]

Nope, no recognition of the Bears there.

I don't mind it at all though Kerry. Maybe the monogram could be edited to include BBFC.

 

[Skoob]

Nope, no recognition of the Bears there.

I don't mind it at all though Kerry. Maybe the monogram could be edited to include BBFC.

I too don't mind the absence of any 'Bearisms' But also think, not enough Lion. Swap the Lion and monogram. That would also better satisfy the gold content.

 

[Scubaveg]

I don't mind it at all though Kerry. Maybe the monogram could be edited to include BBFC.

Was just thinking to myself, whilst its terrific the club is consulting members on the guernsey, the timing is god awful. The guernsey issue has been divisive in the past and the club s in a very bad place right now. Don't what this to compound things and make it worse.

I don't mind the guernsey pictured, it looks pretty good, but for mine I would like to see an equal representation of the Bears and Fitzroy history on any guernsey and I don't think this guernsey does that. To be honest I feel changing the monogram BBFC is a token gesture at best as well.

 

[Jorgo]

Can we please not turn this into yet another guernsey design discussion thread? We have plenty of those elsewhere!

*cough*