Tom Hawkins 350 games - What is his standing in the game?

[SuperMal]

Also, Capper (Warwick Capper) didn't kick 100+ goals in a season twice, he only did it once - 103 goals in 1987. Also you mention "assists".....do you mean Goal Assists? That stat wasn't recorded in Capper's time as a player.

I’ll confess not every selection is stats supported - OK, drop Capper..I was trying to re-enforce the impact he had on the Swans 86/87(?) seasons. But longevity and return puts him out.

 

[Lunchtime]

Very good question - great GA but not much else - probably just into 2nd.

GA....you mean Goal Average (per game)? That was 2.46......he had a high ceiling in terms of goals...kicked 80+ goals two years in a row.

I always like to see how many times a key position forward gets to 50+ goals each year. That's also a good indication of consistency too (number of games per season comes into it too)

 

[Lunchtime]

I’ll confess not every selection is stats supported - OK, drop Capper..I was trying to re-enforce the impact he had on the Swans 86/87(?) seasons. But longevity and return puts him out.

I'd agree with that yep. Bit like Mark "Jacko" Jackson....could obviously play...look at his goal average per game...3.76..in any era thats very good....but longevity was against him - behaviour etc etc.

 

[SuperMal]

I'd agree with that yep. Bit like Mark "Jacko" Jackson....could obviously play...look at his goal average per game...3.76..in any era thats very good....but longevity was against him - behaviour etc etc.

Glad you see the nuances - Thats why I didn't include the ‘non keys’…except for Matthews…it’s too hard.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Why is it absurd? The Coleman medal is like the Brownlow medal for a Forward, it's the highest individual award in terms of goal kicking for a forward. It's a bit like in cricket.....you'd take two centuries over someone who couldn't make a century.

Really? You don’t think a player kicking 105 goals while another player kicked 106 has had a better season than someone else kicking 75 in a different season when no other player kicked more?

 

[PhatBoy]

Why is it absurd? The Coleman medal is like the Brownlow medal for a Forward, it's the highest individual award in terms of goal kicking for a forward. It's a bit like in cricket.....you'd take two centuries over someone who couldn't make a century.

Well to borrow a cricket analogy, Matthew Hayden top scored in the third test in India in 2001.

Rahul Dravid didn’t in the match that preceded it - in fact he scored less than Hayden did in his innings. Pretty sure we all recall who played probably the better innings, even allowing for how well Hayden played.

 

[Catsnlakers]

Maybe he is "marked harshly" because out of the "Big 4 Key Position Forwards" of the past 15 odd years, he has won one Coleman medal - Franklin (4), Jack Riewoldt (3) and Josh Kennedy (2) all won multiple Coleman medals.

If a player wins multiple Coleman medals, then their standing in the game at the end of their career will be high.

That’s a very simplistic way to view things, I don’t claim to know exactly how many overall, but I know in at least 2012, 2014, 2021 & 2022 he was top 3 in the Coleman, and in 3 of them years he received AA honours because he was seen to have been the best overall forward of them seasons.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Will also add to this he is also second all time for goal assists... Which id predominantly midfielders or a few smallish forwards.

So 13th all time for goals kicked, no2 dor all time contested marks, and no2 all time for goal assists..

Freak of a career

And I don't think that's giving him all he's contributed either. A number of times he has literally palmed or knocked a long ball in (so while wrestling one or maybe two opponents) to a team mate for an absolute gimmie. He's created a lot that weren't from a genuine disposal and or his body work. Wayne Carey has always been good at recognising this and how he has great impact even when not kicking them himself.

 

[Lunchtime]

Glad you see the nuances - Thats why I didn't include the ‘non keys’…except for Matthews…it’s too hard.

Stats to reflect Tommy's 351st game. Tonight against the Bulldogs, he was goalless for the 51st time in his career. More often than not he is consistent in terms of his output of goals.

 

[SuperMal]

Stats to reflect Tommy's 351st game. Tonight against the Bulldogs, he was goalless for the 51st time in his career. More often than not he is consistent in terms of his output of goals.

It happens - not going to pretend it’s anything to judge him by.

 

[Lunchtime]

53rd time in his career that Tom Hawkins

26

Tom Hawkins

Age

36

Ht

197cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

2.1

5star

D

12.7

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.1

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.2

5star

has gone goalless and the first time since 2019 that he has gone goalless 3 games in a row.

Is Tom carrying an injury?? Some sort of niggle?

 

[Mr Meow]

53rd time in his career that Tom Hawkins has gone goalless and the first time since 2019 that he has gone goalless 3 games in a row.

Is Tom carrying an injury?? Some sort of niggle?

He really does not look right at the moment.

It's hard to say whether he's carrying something or if it's just a case of father time catching up to him.

But if it carries on much longer it would present Neale as an option, even if it is to refresh Hawkins so that he can come back in with a bit more vigour.

 

[Lunchtime]

He really does not look right at the moment.

It's hard to say whether he's carrying something or if it's just a case of father time catching up to him.

But if it carries on much longer it would present Neale as an option, even if it is to refresh Hawkins so that he can come back in with a bit more vigour.

Maybe old age catching up? Happens to all players and it can't be avoided. Maybe he does have a niggle but we won't ever know.

I know a lot people on this forum joke that he can play on for another few more years but maybe 2024 will be his final year? Who knows?...

 

[Mr Meow]

Maybe old age catching up? Happens to all players and it can't be avoided. Maybe he does have a niggle but we won't ever know.

I know a lot people on this forum joke that he can play on for another few more years but maybe 2024 will be his final year? Who knows?...

I'd say this will almost certainly be his last season.

He will just be a bit up and down in this last stretch, like Riewoldt at the end. But I'll give him another half a dozen games before I say he's of minimal use this season.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I think there's a few things here. He's not the top target in the forwardline anymore, but it's a bit tricky to say precisely who is. Any of Hawkins, Henry, Cameron or Stengle could end up winning our goalkicking. Henry's doing an awesome job this year, bobbing up for his 2-3 even in quiet weeks. Fortunately Hawkins has never been one to really give a continental about how many goals he kicks personally.

I think he's quite rare in key forwards of his era, in that it's conceivable he could still play well and finish a game with 0-1 goals (today wasn't one of those occasions).Just with his forward 50 ruckwork, bringing others into the game, his field kicking, the fact that he still automatically commands the Liam Joneses and Jacob Weiterings of the game.

But I'm not going to lie, it looks like he's at the aging Josh Kennedy stage of his career, where he might get to 35 goals, but it will be with five bags of 4+ and a stack of 0-1 goal outings.

 

[Wojcinski]

If anything he was a great decoy today, forced Carlton to use Weitering on him (who gave him a bath) but freed up Cameron and Henry. Not sure he has much more left in the tank though old Tomahawk, the impact has certainly started to fade

 

[Lunchtime]

I'd say this will almost certainly be his last season.

He will just be a bit up and down in this last stretch, like Riewoldt at the end. But I'll give him another half a dozen games before I say he's of minimal use this season.

Yeah old age caught up to Riewoldt. I think the plan with Riewoldt in his final season (2023) was to not play every week and have breaks every few games. But when Tom Lynch went down due to injury, Riewoldt found himself playing most games, he played 21 games, was banged up in the end.

But what Riewoldt also did was provide a voice of stability and provide leadership on the field especially in the forward line.....boy the Tigers could do with his leadership up forward right now.

Riewoldt still did kick 32 goals in his final season and won the goal kicking so his output was not too bad.

I reckon Tom Hawkins is also providing a voice of stability and providing leadership up forward (like Riewoldt) which is very valuable for the younger players.

Older players know that their output is diminishing so they become a mentor and take on a leadership role which is good I reckon.

 

[PhatBoy]

Didn’t watch the whole game today

The Dogs game he was just plain bad. That was the one that stood out for me and made me think ‘maybe he’s done.’

Last week none of the four key forwards kicked a single goal in the slop and he directly set two up and actually toiled pretty manfully given the conditions so I don’t think it mattered much

Round one he was quiet but his and others kicking let down his statistical output so I’d be interested to see what his actual game was like today if I get around to watching the game.

 

[The 747]

53rd time in his career that Tom Hawkins has gone goalless and the first time since 2019 that he has gone goalless 3 games in a row.

Is Tom carrying an injury?? Some sort of niggle?

The end is coming but Weitering usually beats him and last week we played in a monsoon.

 

[Strange Cat]

Maybe old age catching up? Happens to all players and it can't be avoided. Maybe he does have a niggle but we won't ever know.

I know a lot people on this forum joke that he can play on for another few more years but maybe 2024 will be his final year? Who knows?...

If he wins a flag he will retire ..granted have to make the finals first and actually win it . But Hawkins form isn’t a huge worry atm he often plays like this and then works his way into form so resting him doesn’t help.

But Neale is nipping at his feet atm and if he continues this form in the second half I can see him being replaced after his record breaking game.

 

[My Tilly]

He looks to be nearly done.
Ironically, it was around this very same time back in 2011 when Cam Mooney looked to be finished and was hoping a young Tom (playing in the reserves) would force his way into the starting 22 before the finals kicked off.

Many hope Shannon Neale could do something similar.

 

[Strange Cat]

He looks to be nearly done.
Ironically, it was around this very same time back in 2011 when Cam Mooney looked to be finished and was hoping a young Tom (playing in the reserves) would force his way into the starting 22 before the finals kicked off.

Many hope Shannon Neale could do something similar.

It’s a delicate one , should we make finals we want as much experience in the side …but at the same time you don’t want to bring undone players into it

Still a long way to go and Hawkins has come out of a form slump many many times so he has the credits

 

[Lunchtime]

If Hawkins knows he is a hindrance to the team going forward then he will retire at the end of this season, he won't stand in the way of younger players coming through the program.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

If anything he was a great decoy today, forced Carlton to use Weitering on him (who gave him a bath) but freed up Cameron and Henry. Not sure he has much more left in the tank though old Tomahawk, the impact has certainly started to fade

He'll kick his 40+ this year still.

The fact he commanded Weitering man him only served to let Cameron have a matchup allowing him to thrive and Henry kicked 3 iirc. That's 8 from the 3 of them. We leave him out or play Neale and I don't think we win today.

 

[canny30]

He really does not look right at the moment.

It's hard to say whether he's carrying something or if it's just a case of father time catching up to him.

But if it carries on much longer it would present Neale as an option, even if it is to refresh Hawkins so that he can come back in with a bit more vigour.

He's looked cooked at some stage of every season since about 2017. It's usually early in the season too that he can look that way.

I've written him off too many times to do it again