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ManOfClay
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- Jan 27, 2012
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There it is again
There is what again? a view differing to yours?
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There it is again
There is what again? a view differing to yours?
gets 40 touches immediately talked down as ineffective.
Not ineffective. Getting 40 touches is in itself an impact on the game. I just feel that his statistics aren't always representative of his influence. When he can use his ability to be damaging on more of those disposals, he'll be a top five player in the competition. Right now, I just don't think he is.gets 40 touches immediately talked down as ineffective.
Not ineffective. Getting 40 touches is in itself an impact on the game. I just feel that his statistics aren't always representative of his influence. When he can use his ability to be damaging on more of those disposals, he'll be a top five player in the competition. Right now, I just don't think he is.
But regardless it's just my opinion. Some agree, some don't; that's what makes the forum interesting. I'm a big fan of Rockliff and think he has all the tools required to be a genuine superstar (and in the interests of balance - at the risk of alienating most of my fellow Dogs supporters - I don't think Libba has all the tools to do so), but I don't think he's quite there yet.
The thing is, all the statistics point to him being damaging. But if you watch, and I'm going to be VERY general here to make a point and of course this isn't always the case, a Pendlebury 30-touch game compared to a Rockliff 45-touch game, and Pendlebury's game would be more damaging. It's just the way he uses his possessions to create, he values his possessions. Not to say that Rockliff doesn't, but some of the time his disposals just aren't as damaging as he could be. And of course he's far better than someone like Boyd, and 35 touches from Rocky is easily better than 45 touches from a ball magnet like Boyd.Apart from goal assists what doesn't make Rockliff a top 5 mid in the comp this year? Easy to say he isn't damaging... harder to prove it, he would be close to the hardest two way running midfielder in the comp.
Definitely couldn't go past Rocky at this stage, reckon by the time Libbas his age he will catch him though.
It's a conclusion you reach by watching the game.Apart from goal assists what doesn't make Rockliff a top 5 mid in the comp this year? Easy to say he isn't damaging... harder to prove it, he would be close to the hardest two way running midfielder in the comp.
Probably because there is a higher chance of them being tagged out of the game.There is a reason Ross said there was only 2 options (Hanley & Zorko) when he was asked who he would be tagging prematch.
Agree with others comments re rocky not being that damaging. He just doesn't seem to have the vision and creativity of your abletts and pendles. He always seems to take the easy option when the superstars pick the most damaging option.
Probably because there is a higher chance of them being tagged out of the game.
So you think there is no correlation with us being 1-5 at the start of the season and Rockliff averaging 27 disposals a game and then us being 6-6 with Rockliff averaging over 35 a game. If you look in the open your eyes section - you will find Rockliff has done one hell of a job being the lone ranger in the middle (inside mid) for us. It is no coincidence that Zorko and Hanley have come into some fantastic form since Rockliff has exploded in the past 12 weeks (it is him feeding them).More like you could let Rockcliff get 90 disposals in 2 games and still win by 83 and 58 points.
The lesson here is you dont tag players just to tag them out of the game.
You can effectively dispose of the ball without being damaging.
I still think you're not quite grasping the point because you don't like that it's being made. Of course he's crucial, of course he racks it up and of course he's a wrecking ball without ball in hand.
The point is that his disposals while plentiful and effective are more often than not link play, and it's not him that busts the stoppage open with a well considered and creative handball, which most players don't have the skill, vision or 'time', if you like, to pull off.
While he's 'damaging' in a sense, his disposals simply are not, for the most part. Effective, but not damaging. Nobody's suggesting that his stats don't mean anything, only that they don't paint the full picture.
He is damaging, but we keep circling back to the same point that it's only a facet of his game that isn't damaging.Sure he's getting a lot of possession in link play, but he gets his fair share of inside ball as well which isn't link play. He's top 10 in the league in contested ball and clearances per game and gets around 2 contested possessions for every 3 uncontested possessions. A player that's getting effective disposals out of contested situations is damaging in their own right IMO.
No I accept his goal assists are down (we a bottom 4 team goal kicking wise which certainly does not help Rocky).You can effectively dispose of the ball without being damaging.
I still think you're not quite grasping the point because you don't like that it's being made. Of course he's crucial, of course he racks it up and of course he's a wrecking ball without ball in hand.
The point is that his disposals while plentiful and effective are more often than not link play, and it's not him that busts the stoppage open with a well considered and creative handball, which most players don't have the skill, vision or 'time', if you like, to pull off.
While he's 'damaging' in a sense, his disposals simply are not, for the most part. Effective, but not damaging. Nobody's suggesting that his stats don't mean anything, only that they don't paint the full picture.
I don't care about his goal assists. That's got nothing to do with the point I'm making. Nor does Liberatore, while the thread title indicates otherwise. It's not a pissing contest as to which player is better at what, I'm just highlighting a (rare) inadequacy in Rockliff's game.No I accept his goal assists are down (we a bottom 4 team goal kicking wise which certainly does not help Rocky).
But I am just not sure your watching many of Rockliff's games if that's what you think. His possessions are more often than not link play? You've really lost me there. He is 6th in contested possessions and 8th in clearances, he pretty much has matched all of libba's out put on the inside and been a monster everywhere else.
I guess what i am saying is other than goal assists where is he not damaging???
Fair enough, your point was better made in this post. While I don't totally agree, I do accept (and appreciate) the constructive criticism. I agree some of your points have grounds, but are being exaggerated and even the best of the best do what your saying at times.I don't care about his goal assists. That's got nothing to do with the point I'm making. Nor does Liberatore, while the thread title indicates otherwise. It's not a pissing contest as to which player is better at what, I'm just highlighting a (rare) inadequacy in Rockliff's game.
I've watched Rockliff play 10+ times this year. We form our own impressions based on what we see so it's okay to disagree without pulling that line out because you're a Brisbane supporter and I'm not.
Link play perhaps isn't the right term for it, seeing as it's used to describe the style of players like Dane Swan, who bores little resemblance to Rockliff as a player. I'm sure as a Brisbane supporter that watches the Lions play each week, you see that plenty of Rockliff's disposals are over very short distances to players that aren't in all that much better a position than he is. That's essentially what I'm trying to say.
Hence, his disposals aren't damaging (I'm starting to tire of this word), as much as other facets of his game are (tackling, contested ball, uncontested ball etc). Disposals that open up the stoppage and the game are the ones that players deliberate on, choosing the best option out of the 5 or 6 that present themselves, whereas Rockliff tends to go with the first which isn't always the most effective.
He gets his hands on the ball before the opposition and allows his team first crack at the ball, which is crucial, but while his DE% is relatively good, it's an incredibly misleading stat in that regard, and has no bearing on how damaging his disposals are in any given stoppage or game.