Tom Liberatore vs Tom Rockliff

[Big Sauce 21]

More like you could let Rockcliff get 90 disposals in 2 games and still win by 83 and 58 points.

The lesson here is you dont tag players just to tag them out of the game.

Crowley goes to Steve Johnson not Joel Selwood. Similar to a Swan Pendlebury situation but reversed.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

that's fair enough mate, but how can he improve his game to be more damaging ?

Sorry, missed this.

I think the next step for him is just to take a bit more risk and not be so inclined to take the first option. He does do damage but too often - in my opinion - he is hesitant to take the game or his opponents on and would prefer to feed the ball out. He has the tools to take the game on more and it's where I see his game heading. I'm not suggesting he becomes selfish, just holds onto the ball a little longer and considers his options. I like his vision and his skills are fine - I just don't think he gives himself enough time to weigh up the best decisions sometimes.

 

[The Joker]

So you think there is no correlation with us being 1-5 at the start of the season and Rockliff averaging 27 disposals a game and then us being 6-6 with Rockliff averaging over 35 a game. If you look in the open your eyes section - you will find Rockliff has done one hell of a job being the lone ranger in the middle (inside mid) for us. It is no coincidence that Zorko and Hanley have come into some fantastic form since Rockliff has exploded in the past 12 weeks (it is him feeding them).

This no damage claim has no basis - he averages more disposals and more effective disposals (and more tackles) than GAJ, so he certainly isn't serving it on a plater to the opposition. If you stop Rockliff, Hanley and Zorko have little chance of dominating the game, simply because they have to go in and get their own ball (which they certainly aren't as good at as Rockliff).

Oh so it was all Tommy and nothing to do with your brand new coach and his 8 or 9 game old structures shit sorry.

Crowley goes to Steve Johnson not Joel Selwood. Similar to a Swan Pendlebury situation but reversed.

Crowley kept Selwood to 13 possessions and Geelong won. He keeps Johnson to 20 and Freo won, do you see the difference?

Swan is not tag worthy anymore and it's Beams or Pendles regardless of Swans form.

It's the whole reason teams tag Stephen Hill over Michael Barlow.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

lol. I know you went from some effort finding that i still stand on the comment. Rocky is a much better kick

Stand by the comment even though the stats say against you?...lol

 

[Dom PC]

Stand by the comment even though the stats say against you?...lol

Move on buddy. While I am sure you wouldn't trade Libba for Rockliff (fair enough) - Rockliff has been a level above Libba this year.

Rocky's kicking is fine as is Libba's.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Move on buddy. While I am sure you wouldn't trade Libba for Rockliff (fair enough) - Rockliff has been a level above Libba this year.

Rocky's kicking is fine as is Libba's.

Move on? its a poll to be commented on you see your guy more as i do mine so each is never going to say the other is better

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Stand by the comment even though the stats say against you?...lol

Yes, Glad to see libreatore have better efficiency, 8 touches less a game certainly helps that out, and other than clearances .5 a game more... rockliff has him covered every where else in your "stats"

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Yes, Glad to see libreatore have better efficiency, 8 touches less a game certainly helps that out, and other than clearances .5 a game more... rockliff has him covered every where else in your "stats"

my stats? facts are great when they are right..lol never wrote any stats, and the ones posted didnt have rocky in front by much. lets say revisit Libbas stats in two years more in the system compared to Rockys this years ;-)

 

[Big Sauce 21]

my stats? facts are great when they are right..lol never wrote any stats, and the ones posted didnt have rocky in front by much. lets say revisit Libbas stats in two years more in the system compared to Rockys this years ;-)

rocky has 5 more effective touches a game so there's a stat again.

you can revisit in 2 years time. doubt he'll be at his numbers though

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Boooooring.

Another comparison thread turns to petty one-upmanship after each week. Rockliff's had a better year. /thread.

 

[ManOfClay]

Both in the AA squad of 40. While Rockliff has apparently had the better year, Libba still leads the league in clearances and tackles. His work in close and physically is immense.

 

[Dom PC]

Both in the AA squad of 40. While Rockliff has apparently had the better year, Libba still leads the league in clearances and tackles. His work in close and physically is immense.

Lol Rockliff actually averages more than a tackle extra per game then libba. He actually broke the all time record for average tackles per game. He is only averaging half a clearance less per game than libba. Not bad for Rockliff considering libba's considered purely an inside player.

Rockliff matches libba on the inside and beats him everywhere else on the field.

You're a sore loser.

 

[SizeMatters]

I doubt anybody besides Doggy fans would take Libba over Rocky.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Lol Rockliff actually averages more than a tackle extra per game then libba. He actually broke the all time record for average tackles per game. He is only averaging half a clearance less per game than libba. Not bad for Rockliff considering libba's considered purely an inside player.

Rockliff matches libba on the inside and beats him everywhere else on the field.

You're a sore loser.

This is pub talk, but I wouldn't expect any better.

Rockliff is a more rounded player and everyone has conceded that he's had the better year. Don't waste your time driving a wide ranging, not to mention patently incorrect, point home. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[blueiris]

This is pub talk, but I wouldn't expect any better.

Rockliff is a more rounded player and everyone has conceded that he's had the better year. Don't waste your time driving a wide ranging, not to mention patently incorrect, point home. You're embarrassing yourself.

You do realize that Rocky has missed 4 games this year where Libba has played a full season but let's not let fact get in front of the stats

 

[Dom PC]

This is pub talk, but I wouldn't expect any better.

Rockliff is a more rounded player and everyone has conceded that he's had the better year. Don't waste your time driving a wide ranging, not to mention patently incorrect, point home. You're embarrassing yourself.

You quoted the wrong poster (Id hope). Not sure what I said that was so wrong :S ???

ManOfClay posted an almost trollish post and I simply responded accordingly.

Also, what did I get wrong?

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

You do realize that Rocky has missed 4 games this year where Libba has played a full season but let's not let fact get in front of the stats

I'm not letting anything get in the way of the facts. Rockliff has had a better season. The stats reflect this and nobody is arguing otherwise.

I take exception to Dom PC's need to denigrate other players while praising his own, and his constant sweeping statements that have no statistical backing nor are formed on the basis of watching games. It's trolling equivalent to anything they want to project on MoC and it's tiresome that anyone bothering to do this continues to attempt to take the moral high ground.

 

[Dom PC]

I'm not letting anything get in the way of the facts. Rockliff has had a better season. The stats reflect this and nobody is arguing otherwise.

I take exception to Dom PC's need to denigrate other players while praising his own, and his constant sweeping statements that have no statistical backing nor are formed on the basis of watching games. It's trolling equivalent to anything they want to project on MoC and it's tiresome that anyone bothering to do this continues to attempt to take the moral high ground.

I think Libba is a great player and deserves his AA squad nomination!!! Deadly serious.

Where did I pay out libba??

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I think Libba is a great player and deserves his AA squad nomination!!! Deadly serious.

Where did I pay out libba??

I never said you paid out on Libba. I'm glad he was nominated too, reward for a body of work, a term we both know all too well

Perhaps you don't realise, and maybe it's just an idiosyncrasy that I've overreacted to, but this talk:

Not bad for Rockliff considering libba's considered purely an inside player.

Rockliff matches libba on the inside and beats him everywhere else on the field.

is nonsense, I'm sorry.

Everyone's guilty of pigeonholing players, so I apologise for being so critical of you, but as I've said, I'm sick and tired of any sweeping statements that follow such attempts to pigeonhole players. We won't, but we could circle back to the relative lack of impact of Rockliff's disposals on the 'outside', if we are to stoop to that, compared to Libba's work with his hands.

It's easy to say 'Rockliff is better at this and this and this' and when called out on it say 'but Libba's great too', but be prepared to engage in a boring, long winded debate about different facets of their game (as we did before - 'damaging'), because you simply can't boil it down to that in a snide comment, even if it is directed at ManOfClay, who probably does go out of his way to cause some angst despite there being plenty of merit to most of what he says.

Again, apologies for being so critical, it was an overreaction, but you're a better poster than that. You can provide statistical backing for your argument and engage in rational discussion, so don't take the bait, and don't make silly generalisations.

 

[ManOfClay]

The general footy public isn't arguing whether Libba's possessions are ineffective though. It's easy to say "Rockliff is better at everything else" but he's also in the gun for being a bit of an accumulator without any impact.

And I find it funny in the rising star that Lions fans claim total>averages but now it's the other way around as it suits them.

Anyway, at the risk of inviting more calls of trolling I'll back off. Just saying both are very good players, having very similar years. Going forward you'd probably take the considerably younger player, they are that hard to split on face value.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

The general footy public isn't arguing whether Libba's possessions are ineffective though. It's easy to say "Rockliff is better at everything else" but he's also in the gun for being a bit of an accumulator without any impact.

And I find it funny in the rising star that Lions fans claim total>averages but now it's the other way around as it suits them.

Anyway, at the risk of inviting more calls of trolling I'll back off. Just saying both are very good players, having very similar years. Going forward you'd probably take the considerably younger player, they are that hard to split on face value.

I think it's more looking at the way the award is given

 

[scott_the_man]

another interesting stat about rockliff's 2014 is he is first in the comp for average rebound 50s out of the midfielders. goes to show he is a real gut runner and helps out his defence an awful lot

 

[The GOAT]

another interesting stat about rockliff's 2014 is he is first in the comp for average rebound 50s out of the midfielders. goes to show he is a real gut runner and helps out his defence an awful lot

Rebound 50s are pretty meaningless. Lots of easy stats back there.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

I'd take Libba, 2 years younger and would compliment our Midfield well.

 

[cotter101]

Rockliff has an impact. As backed up by stats he is always running back down to help the boys out and he usually gets us out of trouble down there. His ability to think quickly and make good decisions under pressure is where he does damage. Set's up just about all of our attacking plays. He is involved in just about everything. Once Redden and Rich back in to ease the pressure on him a bit, you'll see him rest forward and kick goals.

Both are bloody good players.