i love libba as a player and think he will win a brownlow one day, just mentioned a fact that could be the dedicding factor between two awesome players where there is little to split them..
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Tom Liberatore vs Tom Rockliff
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i love libba as a player and think he will win a brownlow one day, just mentioned a fact that could be the dedicding factor between two awesome players where there is little to split them..
ManOfClay
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But you could also say Liberatore not getting suspended for cheap little on-field incidents (just off field stuff) is a deciding factor. Rockliff gets sucked in easily, his own coach admitted it.
Yeah i suppose that is fair, but id put slight importance over playing well when getting tagged (does when griffen doesnt play, doesnt when he does play generally) than having a few brain fades on the field now and then.
Both absolute guns and would welcome either at port though.
ManOfClay
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It's not as if he gets completely ignored and left to his own devices when Griffen plays. I don't think it's so much of him being tagged, it's more like a 21 year old not being able to be excellent every game.
Stepped up minus Griffen yesterday.
Fantastic game by Rocky today - 47 disposals (19 contested), 11 clearances, 10 tackles and a goal.
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Yeah, just keeps putting good performances on the board. Stiff not to win the Ashcroft Medal but it had to go to one of the two!
LukasTheGreat
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How on earth did he get through to the pre-season draft? insane stuff.
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our biggest draft win of all time just keeps getting better with every game
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If he didnt get suspended at all this season imagine the uproar if he won the Brownlow...He'll poll high enough as it is I suspect to ruffle some feathers.
If he can give 100% next season with a bit more discipline...Well, wow.
If he can give 100% next season with a bit more discipline...Well, wow.
scott_the_man
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he'll have a brownlow by the end of his career, no doubt about that. went very close last year and i suspect he'll go very close again this year. plus he's only 24, imagine how good he'll be when he reaches his peak in a few years
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LukasTheGreat
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I honestly can't see him going 22 games without suspension. Similar to Stevie J in that regard.
scott_the_man
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he got suspended twice this year for very minor things that usualy happen 20 times a game... i wouldnt read too much into it.
the MRP is a joke
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You have to admit, he could make a better fist of controlling his aggression to minimise the chance of these incidents coming up. It's the only knock on him
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Polls are even, probably the fairest result.
But if I had to choose, I'll pick Tom Rockeratore.
But if I had to choose, I'll pick Tom Rockeratore.
scott_the_man
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he's really not that aggressive. he's just a victim of the terrible inconsistency of the MRP
How good is Rockliff. How many times has he gone 30+ disposals with 10 or more tackles.
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Because he was a small forward as a junior (led the TAC Cup with 59 goals in 2008, and won the Murray Bushrangers' B&F in a premiership side), rather than the hard-working midfielder that we know him as now, and wasn't seen as having much value and potential beyond that, especially as he has an unathletic-looking body.
I don't think there's any one player who is more valuable to their team and does more for their team than Tom Rockliff right now. A true MVP in that sense.
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He has to have jumped ahead of Liba now? He is posting some astronomical numbers - 37 effective disposals against Freo and now leads the comp in possessions, effective disposals (even ahead of GAJ) and tackles per game. Not saying he is close to GAJ, but he'd be in the top 5 midfielders in the comp atm.
Just an amazing season by Rocky - certainly surpassed my expectations in terms of his total numbers.
Just an amazing season by Rocky - certainly surpassed my expectations in terms of his total numbers.
Yep, has had a better season than Libba (who has been pretty damn good himself). I still wouldn't trade Libba for Rockliff because Libba has the most creative hands I've ever seen on a player but if you were picking one for AA this year Rockliff gets the nod no doubt.
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Without intending to cause a shitfight or anything here my biggest issue with Rockliff is that he simply just isn't that damaging. He gathers disposals at will - and don't get me wrong, it's a phenomenal skill and he does it better than pretty much anybody - but unless you're focusing totally on him (or a supporter, who tends to notice their own players more than opposition players), you're always absolutely shocked when you look at Rockliff's stats. I guess what I'm trying to say is that his impact is disproportionate to his statistics. It's not as if he seagulls around with cheap touches and kicks backwards regularly - he earns most of his disposals - but if he doesn't earn big numbers of disposals he struggles to impose himself. It's very much a 'death by 1000 cuts' scenario for me. Libba is not as adept in most areas (lesser mark, lesser forward ability, lesser ability outside, lesser ability to win the ball and less resistant to a tag) but save for the odd off day or off kick Libba is incredibly damaging. His hands are ridiculously good, he's an accurate, long kick, and his vision is sublime. Some of his disposals - especially under pressure - are insane. Rockliff tends to just push the ball forward or take 'safer' options and it contributes to his impact on a game being limited from my perspective.
I'm by no means using this as an argument that Libba is better - he isn't - nor am I trying to say that Rockliff isn't a good player - he is - I just can't bring myself to categorise Rockliff as being a truly elite player until his impact reflects his numbers more closely. It's the next step for him really and think he has to take it to be classified as a true upper-echelon midfielder.
I'm by no means using this as an argument that Libba is better - he isn't - nor am I trying to say that Rockliff isn't a good player - he is - I just can't bring myself to categorise Rockliff as being a truly elite player until his impact reflects his numbers more closely. It's the next step for him really and think he has to take it to be classified as a true upper-echelon midfielder.
that comment gets thrown around quite often. He's a very damaging player. when we had a full strength team earlier in the year he had kicked 3 goals twice in two games, then the injuries kicked in and he had to play full out midfield to help the kids. Next year the others will return and he wont have to focus on being under every pack and dishing it out, he could leave that for Redden or Rich and rocky could run away with it towards goal.
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Fair enough; I just haven't seen enough of it. When he swings forward he does damage, yes, but from the midfield his impact on the game just isn't as extreme as his stats suggest for mine. I compare him to somebody like Beams for instance who doesn't possess the same ability to find the ball but a very good proportion of his touches create something for the team; for the moment, Rockliff does contribute to the team enormously but more often than not it's players like Hanley, Zorko and Taylor that are really carving the opposition up. I'm not arguing that he can't be damaging, just that it doesn't happen often enough considering the amount of disposals he gathers, for me.
Regardless, not trying to flare up an argument or anything, he's certainly a bloody good player. I'd just like to see him use a greater number of his disposals to hurt the opposition before I rate him up there with the likes of Pendlebury and Ablett. He's still extremely young, and as you say, returning players (Redden especially) will allow him to get on the outside more.
There it is again
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