Recommitted Tom Mitchell [contracted and staying at Hawthorn]

[FreeAgent1]

So is it agreed he is a mid/late first?

Less if taking his whole salary but top 10 if hawks take some of it?

 

[boncer34]

So is it agreed he is a mid/late first?

Less if taking his whole salary but top 10 if hawks take some of it?

More than I'd pay.

Seems about consensus though.

 

[headhoncho]

We aint sending any picks back and pick 7 straight would be the minimum.

Dominic then looks like we keep Mitchell he wins our next 2 B&F and in the mean time a couple of potential midfielders just do not or limited game time.

To me Finn feels like a reincarnation of Josh Kennedy. Everything is the same just hope this time we reap the long term benefits. Mitchell traded out for top end talent with opportunity in the guts to develop kids on the big stage.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

It's not just Beams either, there are several non-Brownlow winners I would easily rate above Tom Mitchell: Scott Pendlebury, Daniel Kerr, Lenny Hayes, Marcus Bontempelli, Trent Cotchin, David Mundy, Shaun Burgoyne, Nick Dal Santo, Callan Ward, Christian Petracca and so on. For whatever the difference in disposal averages there might be, they're effective in so many other areas, whether it be kicking, marking, versatility, power, and so on.

Ummmm.... Never thought I'd see this from a Richmond fan.

 

[HeHateMe]

Ummmm.... Never thought I'd see this from a Richmond fan.

Yeah that raised my eyebrows as well. Doesn't sound like something a Richmond tragic would say. That poster is a Rookie (new account) as well.....

 

[Prochard123]

This thread has become a bit rinse and repeat;

Other clubs' supporters; "we're really not that interested"
Hawthorn supporters; "he's worth an early first rd pick at the minimum"
Other clubs'supporters; "we're really not that interested"
Hawthorn supporters; "we'll keep him then"
Other clubs' supporters; "OK"
Hawthorn supporters; "He's had a great season, better than Neale's, he's worth an early first rd pick at the minimum"
Other clubs' supporters; "honestly, we're really not that interested"

Sounds like the Jack Gunston thread from last year lol

 

[daniel23]

I'd do 15+28 If Richmond were keen and send back a 3rd , values him around 10 which is obviously not the pick but probably fair. He is a very underrated player around here , but for our age demographic we need to start building a core of 23 and unders. In a dead even draft I'd see more value in 2 mid range picks then 1 top 10 .

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Um, yes he does. In fact, he was doing that way too much earlier in the year to the point he was copping a lot of criticism.

No, he was copping criticism for his kicks around the corner, or demanding the ball in a position that didn’t help the side.

 

[Tygrys]

I'd do 15+28 If Richmond were keen and send back a 3rd , values him around 10 which is obviously not the pick but probably fair. He is a very underrated player around here , but for our age demographic we need to start building a core of 23 and unders. In a dead even draft I'd see more value in 2 mid range picks then 1 top 10 .

Um, we're not keen, not even a little, and apparently neither is Mitchell



I guess we'll just have to take our picks to the draft then

 

[MacStradbroke]

At least Neale doesn't blindly bomb it forward to packs anywhere near as much as Mitchell.
Mitchell also loves statpadding his uncontested possessions, even though he's largely ineffective with them.

Love both players but Lachie Neale, in his Brownlow year had his first and only goal assist in the second last round so he’s hardly Nathan Buckley streaming out of the centre delivering it on a platter.

 

[triple treat]

Um, we're not keen, not even a little, and apparently neither is Mitchell



I guess we'll just have to take our picks to the draft then

Maybe just “half” your picks

 

[hfc70]

So is it agreed he is a mid/late first?

Less if taking his whole salary but top 10 if hawks take some of it?

Agreed by whom !?
What substances are you on ? Doubt we will be paying any of his salary.
He‘s contracted & required. If a suitable offer is put forward , we would consider it you would imagine.

You‘re probably one of those Swans supporters that thinks Dawson is worth Pick 4

 

[FreeAgent1]

Agreed by whom !?
What substances are you on ? Doubt we will be paying any of his salary.
He‘s contracted & required. If a suitable offer is put forward , we would consider it you would imagine.

You‘re probably one of those Swans supporters that thinks Dawson is worth Pick 4

I’m just saying what he is worth, not what he will get traded for.

why not pay his salary if you have zero cap pressure and getting better pick during a rebuild?

you sound like a hawks supporter who is still grieving Clarko…

 

[hfc70]

I’m just saying what he is worth, not what he will get traded for.

why not pay his salary if you have zero cap pressure and getting better pick during a rebuild?

you sound like a hawks supporter who is still grieving Clarko…

Nah not Clarko
Grieving for Buddy and all those Premierships he has missed after seeking superannuation at the Cola Swans. Great investment

 

[Guardian Hawk]

At least Neale doesn't blindly bomb it forward to packs anywhere near as much as Mitchell.
Mitchell also loves statpadding his uncontested possessions, even though he's largely ineffective with them.

'Largely ineffective' but had more effective possessions than any player in the league (again).

Yes, he sometimes gets possessions that are not all that helpful but so do all the high possession winners in the league (Ablett Jnr a prime example). Does the fact that he gets more of the ball than anyone in history make him the best player in the league? Of course not! But people are going way too far the other way.

Even if you take out half a dozen junk possessions a game, he is still getting it 29-30 times in a meaningful way. The irony is that if he played exactly the same way but didn't collect those extra 5-6 junk possessions, he would be rated much higher by the general public as more damaging (which is dumb because he is still having that impact but also gets the odd ineffective stat mixed in which clouds people judgement.) Similarly, if he played exactly the same way in a good side he would be rated highly as his impact would be noticed (just like Lachie Neale, Ollie Wines this year and others who play a similar game). He can appear non-impactful at times because his average team mates can't capitalise on his good work. It's no coincidence that he was considered by all as the best player in the game the only year Hawthorn has been top 4 (or even top 8) in his time at the club.

 

[Blackhawk42]

This is a strange thread with Hawthorn supporters suggesting Richmond and Richmond supporters seemingly unanimous in their rejection of the idea.

I will just direct this at those Tiger fans however. This isn't as simple as 'Richmond are in the window, take our best midfielder'. From the beginning of the Titch speculation on our board it centred around multiple factors, but Richmond was ultimately suggested because of how he would compliment your midfield. We would give anything for a Dusty or Bolton type for Titch to fire the ball out to. Our lack of that explosive player is primarily the reason why most Hawks fans would be content moving him on.

It just so happens you guys have two first round selections which we'd love to get our hands on somehow.

I'm actually convinced he is staying at Hawthorn now, but the idea of him moving to Richmond does make sense when considering all the reasons why it would be beneficial to both sides.

 

[Burtman]

This is a strange thread with Hawthorn supporters suggesting Richmond and Richmond supporters seemingly unanimous in their rejection of the idea.

I will just direct this at those Tiger fans however. This isn't as simple as 'Richmond are in the window, take our best midfielder'. From the beginning of the Titch speculation on our board it centred around multiple factors, but Richmond was ultimately suggested because of how he would compliment your midfield. We would give anything for a Dusty or Bolton type for Titch to fire the ball out to. Our lack of that explosive player is primarily the reason why most Hawks fans would be content moving him on.

It just so happens you guys have two first round selections which we'd love to get our hands on somehow.

I'm actually convinced he is staying at Hawthorn now, but the idea of him moving to Richmond does make sense when considering all the reasons why it would be beneficial to both sides.

I can understand Some Richmond supporters not wanting him because they want to hold their picks, it’s more the ones that say he’s a crab and ineffectual and just flat out don’t want him that’s the worry. If he was at Richmond next year he’d be about $1.50 favourite to take out their bnf. Aside from a 2017 dusty repeat I can’t see anyone else coming close to him. It would appear with the addition of tarrant that they’re loading up for another shot. But with a starting midfield that all miss more games than they play, they can almost kiss their chances goodbye

 

[Lsta062]

This is a strange thread with Hawthorn supporters suggesting Richmond and Richmond supporters seemingly unanimous in their rejection of the idea.

I will just direct this at those Tiger fans however. This isn't as simple as 'Richmond are in the window, take our best midfielder'. From the beginning of the Titch speculation on our board it centred around multiple factors, but Richmond was ultimately suggested because of how he would compliment your midfield. We would give anything for a Dusty or Bolton type for Titch to fire the ball out to. Our lack of that explosive player is primarily the reason why most Hawks fans would be content moving him on.

It just so happens you guys have two first round selections which we'd love to get our hands on somehow.

I'm actually convinced he is staying at Hawthorn now, but the idea of him moving to Richmond does make sense when considering all the reasons why it would be beneficial to both sides.

But two first-round picks for him though? That’s what I’d want us to give for someone like Petracca or Clayton Oliver. May have been what we would give for Tom Mitchell 2 years ago. However, I don’t think it’s commensurate now. A first-rounder and maybe another later pick, but not another first.

While he definitely fits a need for us, he doesn’t meet all of our needs for our midfield to contend again. Recruiting him will still not fix our slow midfield for example, which is one thing that’s been catching us out frequently over this season. Therefore, if the asking price is too much given his contract status, then I’d prefer that we just keep our picks and hit the draft to source two young midfielders with potential.

 

[Blackhawk42]

But two first-round picks for him though? That’s what I’d want us to give for someone like Petracca or Clayton Oliver. May have been what we would give for Tom Mitchell 2 years ago. However, I don’t think it’s commensurate now. A first-rounder and maybe another later pick, but not another first.

While he definitely fits a need for us, he doesn’t meet all of our needs for our midfield to contend again. Recruiting him will still not fix our slow midfield for example, which is one thing that’s been catching us out frequently over this season. Therefore, if the asking price is too much given his contract status, then I’d prefer that we just keep our picks and hit the draft to source two young midfielders with potential.

No, would only be one. Sorry, I should have written ONE OF Richmonds first rounders.

 

[Lsta062]

No, would only be one. Sorry, I should have written ONE OF Richmonds first rounders.

If it’s one then I don’t mind tbh. It gives us a sneaky chance at a Premiership next year

 

[Tygrys]

To those Hawks that seem somewhat exasperated by our disinterest in Mitchell. Personally I get the suggestion, I guess if anyone wanted him it would be kind of logical it would be us. And I get the reason why you want more first rounders (I mean we do as well). It's the dogged insistence that does our heads in.

It just doesn't seem to matter how often we tell hawks that we want to go to the drat, that we don't want to trade a first rounder(s) for a 29 year old, that we have other priorities that we find just as pressing, that maybe just maybe we know more about what our needs are and what our club is thinking better than they do etc. A lot of them just don't want to hear it.

To be fair it's not so bad here but go the Hawthorns '2021 Player wishlists, random thoughts and Hypothetical trade proposals' and for many there the trade is as good as done and literally it's about how many first rounders and additional picks they can screw us out of. In effect (and I'm quoting here) what Port did to Hawthorn in the Wingard trade you're going to do to us to even the ledger. Even the fact that Mitchell has come out and publicly stated he aint going anywhere hasn't seem to have slowed them down.

Anyhow this Ternimator like determination has breed a counter-reaction in us where Mitchell has now become a slow, crablike stats accumulator with zero hurt factor. Obviously this isn't quite true, but equally obviously most Richmond people don't rate him quite as highly as Hawthorn supporters do. The bottom-line is we are genuinely excited about having two first rounders with a possibility of securing an additional first from Footscray. It's a position we haven't been for at least a decade and we're loathe to give it up.

I think most Richmond people would accept sending a second to Hawthorn for Mitchell (although personally I'd stlll prefer the draft), but a first that's a different matter. And from Hawthorns perspective I understand it's laughable unders. So with such a large gap between so many of the two supporter groups as to what he'd be worth (and the fact a hell of a lot of us don't really want him) it just feels like Hawthorn posters are flogging a dead horse (especially with him publicly declaring he's a Hawk to stay). Now if you want to keep on doing that that's fine, but don't expect by doing so any come to Jesus moment where we see the light and sell the farm to buy him. Again it's not so much we hate Mitchell, it's just in my opinion the majority of us just want to go to the draft.

 

[Ambrosia]

If I was Richmond I’d be considering grabbing him as there’s every chance Prestia and/or Cotchin’s body doesn’t hold up next year and I can’t see them winning a premiership if with one or two of Collier-Dawkins, Ross and Graham as prime movers in the midfield.

That being said I get the feeling Hawthorn are only open to trading Mitchell if a club offers overs and I can’t see the Tigers doing that.

What other mids are available that would be a likely upgrade on Graham, Ross and Collier-Dawkins? Seb Ross as a freebie maybe?

 

[Iceman!]

To those Hawks that seem somewhat exasperated by our disinterest in Mitchell. Personally I get the suggestion, I guess if anyone wanted him it would be kind of logical it would be us. And I get the reason why you want more first rounders (I mean we do as well). It's the dogged insistence that does our heads in.

It just doesn't seem to matter how often we tell hawks that we want to go to the drat, that we don't want to trade a first rounder(s) for a 29 year old, that we have other priorities that we find just as pressing, that maybe just maybe we know more about what our needs are and what our club is thinking better than they do etc. A lot of them just don't want to hear it.

To be fair it's not so bad here but go the Hawthorns '2021 Player wishlists, random thoughts and Hypothetical trade proposals' and for many there the trade is as good as done and literally it's about how many first rounders and additional picks they can screw us out of. In effect (and I'm quoting here) what Port did to Hawthorn in the Wingard trade you're going to do to us to even the ledger. Even the fact that Mitchell has come out and publicly stated he aint going anywhere hasn't seem to have slowed them down.

Anyhow this Ternimator like determination has breed a counter-reaction in us where Mitchell has now become a slow, crablike stats accumulator with zero hurt factor. Obviously this isn't quite true, but equally obviously most Richmond people don't rate him quite as highly as Hawthorn supporters do. The bottom-line is we are genuinely excited about having two first rounders with a possibility of securing an additional first from Footscray. It's a position we haven't been in this position for at least a decade and we're loathe to give it up.

I think most Richmond people would accept sending a second to Hawthorn for Mitchell (although personally I'd stlll prefer the draft), but a first that's a different matter. And from Hawthorns perspective I understand it's laughable unders. So with such a large gap between so many of the two supporter groups as to what he'd be worth (and the fact a hell of a lot of us don't really want him) it just feels like Hawthorn posters are flogging a dead horse (especially with him publicly declaring he's a Hawk to stay). Now if you want to keep on doing that that's fine, but don't expect by do so any come to Jesus moment where we see the light and sell the farm to buy him. Again it's not so much we hate Mitchell, it's just in my opinion the majority of us just want to go to the draft.

That same thread often brings up getting Bailey Smith, trading Howe for a significant return and getting early/multiple picks for Gunston at his age. Little tip avoid every boards trade threads they are all ridiculous.

Personally I think Richmond would be crazy to hit the Draft hard while Dusty is still playing at such a high level, you are more than welcome to disagree. They could use 7 at the Draft and still have the currency to get Mitchell (or another quality player in)

If Richmond fans are so certain that Richmond isn’t interested in Mitchell and the fans also don’t want him I would recommend just avoiding the thread.

 

[Tygrys]

I can understand Some Richmond supporters not wanting him because they want to hold their picks, it’s more the ones that say he’s a crab and ineffectual and just flat out don’t want him that’s the worry. If he was at Richmond next year he’d be about $1.50 favourite to take out their bnf. Aside from a 2017 dusty repeat I can’t see anyone else coming close to him. It would appear with the addition of tarrant that they’re loading up for another shot. But with a starting midfield that all miss more games than they play, they can almost kiss their chances goodbye

Tarrant will cost us literally nothing. He won't cost a single draft pick. He is cover for a recently retired Astbury and potentially allows Balta to play up forward if Riewoldt and Lynch go down (an important consideration as both Chol and CCJ are leaving). Anyhow it's a leap to assume because we are recruiting a player in his thirties for nothing that suddenly we are open to trading out our first rounders. It's just as logical to assume that we are recruiting him as cheap experienced insurance to provide cover whilst we hit the draft hard and develop more kids through our system. At least that's how a lot of us read it.

And as for our midfield. You are assuming that none of our kids will develop and step up, that we won't draft anyone with our picks that will make an immediate impact and energise the side, that with an extended rest and rehap (missing the first finals in five years) that our senior midfielders won't come back refreshed and fitter than in 2021. Just saying unless Hawthorn offers him for free it's not a zero-sum game where if Richmond doesn't want Mitchell (which seems to be the case) that it spells all doom and gloom. We've won three of the last four premierships without Mitchell, it can be done

 

[Ambrosia]

Tarrant will cost us literally nothing. He won't cost a single draft pick. He is cover for a recently retired Astbury and potentially allows Balta to play up forward if Riewoldt and Lynch go down (an important consideration as both Chol and CCJ are leaving). Anyhow it's a leap to assume because we are recruiting a player in his thirties for nothing that suddenly we are open to trading out our first rounders. It's just as logical to assume that we are recruiting him as cheap experienced insurance to provide cover whilst we hit the draft hard and develop more kids through our system. At least that's how a lot of us read it.

And as for our midfield. You are assuming that none of our kids will develop and step up, that we won't draft anyone with our picks that will make an immediate impact and energise the side, that with an extended rest and rehap (missing the first finals in five years) that our senior midfielders won't come back refreshed and fitter than in 2021. Just saying unless Hawthorn offers him for free it's not a zero-sum game where if Richmond doesn't want Mitchell (which seems to be the case) that it spells all doom and gloom. We've won three of the last four premierships without Mitchell, it can be done

Tarrant isn’t depth. Assuming he can get back to his 2020 form he’ll be an upgrade on Astbury.