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The sides Ablett and Buckley faced in Grand Finals were just too strong.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Opinion Top 5 Most Overrated Players Of All Time
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FishingRick04
Brownlow Medallist
He was good, the days of watch Plugger, Dunstall (hated him), Ablett, even Paul Salmon were fascinating, moreso than our modern era. Even my local boy Scott Hodges, great times great players in their respective leagues.
I hold against Ablett his non mark he took, other than that, GUN GUN GUN
Wayne Carey (Silvagni beat him nearly every time they faced off yet he is regarded by many as the best player ever to play)
Lance Franklin (Also regarded as one of the all time greats but has under performed in way too many big matches. Not a pimple on Kouta's ass)
Dermott Brereton (Is regarded as one of the great CHFs but he was well beaten 8/10 times when he played against us)
Roughead (Ok forward with an average set shot yet gets talked about as if he is a gun???)
Chris Judd (Yes he is one of my own but he needs a mention. Can't do a thing wrong in the media's eyes but he is an average kick)
Special mention to Nathan Buckly (selfish off the ball)
Lance Franklin (Also regarded as one of the all time greats but has under performed in way too many big matches. Not a pimple on Kouta's ass)
Dermott Brereton (Is regarded as one of the great CHFs but he was well beaten 8/10 times when he played against us)
Roughead (Ok forward with an average set shot yet gets talked about as if he is a gun???)
Chris Judd (Yes he is one of my own but he needs a mention. Can't do a thing wrong in the media's eyes but he is an average kick)
Special mention to Nathan Buckly (selfish off the ball)
You can't seriously believe this? Ablett shares the record for most goals kicked in a Grand Final, in a Norm Smith winning performance that many regard as one of the greatest. The team result was mostly about the 35 other players on the field.
You should have gone to some nuetral games
Seriously, I know SOS generally had his measure, but Carey really was something else as a player.
Yeah. That mark was bollocks wasn't it. But damn he was talented.
Only Franklin from the modern era can really evoke the same kind of interest as those forwards.
- Mar 18, 2011
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- #381
So Paul Dear is better than Dunstall then
? So does this make FraNKLIN AND cRAWFORD FOOTBALL cHARLATANS THEN?
Play Footy did we sunshine ? It's not the NBA where 1 player can have a massive influence , there's 18 on the park so the opportunity for a player to "drag the team over the line" consistently is virtually impossible - particularly in the modern era.
As far as Ablett Snr is concerned any discerning judge would have him in the top 5 of all time , with either him or Matthews as arguably the best of all time.
Igloo
Not a mod
All you have done is list absolute superstars, among some of the best the game has seen. How are you calling guys like Carey and Brereton overrated because they didn't play their best against Carlton?
If anything, Roughead is underrated. Doesn't receive nearly enough plaudits.
Also, massive lol at Franklin not being a pimple on Kouta's arse. Buddy will end up a far superior player than Kouta was.
- May 10, 2004
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You're taking the piss aren't you?
You are definitely taking the piss with that list.
I mean, come on man, you're better than this.
- May 10, 2004
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Why is it that only Collingwood and Hawthorn supporters think Jimmy Bartel is overrated?
Is it because he's broken your hearts in at least one big game each?
He's the only bloke in the comp who can get 30 possies in the guts, or play CHB or CHF, among other positions.
He's an out and out champion and if you don't agree you don't watch many Geelong games.
- May 10, 2004
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I also noticed Michael Tuck getting an extensive mention on this thread.
I just want to say to those that put him up there....what sport have you been watching all these years?
The guy finished second in their B&F 8 times, behind some more than handy players, captained 4 flag sides and the state, and let me tell you, if you want to see the epitome of consistency, no one can top his record.
I started watching footy about the 100 game mark of his career, and I could count on one hand the amount of shockers he had. Even when he wasn't having his best game, he was one of that rare breed who knew how to get guys who were feeling it involved, even when he wasn't. For me, only Mark Thompson and Corey Enright come close to his level in that department, and they didn't/haven't played half the games he played.
If I was building a side I wanted to win a flag, Michael Tuck would be an automatic inclusion.
I just want to say to those that put him up there....what sport have you been watching all these years?
The guy finished second in their B&F 8 times, behind some more than handy players, captained 4 flag sides and the state, and let me tell you, if you want to see the epitome of consistency, no one can top his record.
I started watching footy about the 100 game mark of his career, and I could count on one hand the amount of shockers he had. Even when he wasn't having his best game, he was one of that rare breed who knew how to get guys who were feeling it involved, even when he wasn't. For me, only Mark Thompson and Corey Enright come close to his level in that department, and they didn't/haven't played half the games he played.
If I was building a side I wanted to win a flag, Michael Tuck would be an automatic inclusion.
All Time Top5
1. Jonothan Brown- The media love for this bloke was out of control from halfway through the 01 season & continued on ever since. He played a minor role in 3 flags & the reputation has just snowballed from there. In one of those years he kicked 14 goals from 19 games!! Had a couple of good years in 07-08 but no other years have been close to matching reputation. His finals reputation is massively overblown as is his leadership which seems to get more overated the more games he misses. Brisbanes been a basket case since he became captain yet he gets off the hook.
2. Gary Lyon- This bloke somehow became a Melbourne legend by having a solid career. He was another lauded for his leadership yet for most of his time as captain Melbourne were woeful. Had a lot of injuries, famously (thanks to the Footy Show) broke his leg early in his career then suffered from back problems from the mid 90s but it he was no superstar to begin with. His media profile is huge & he uses it on gameday to pot blokes for seemingly pulling out & pumping up his favourites. Listening to him you'd think he was the 5 day 5 night premiership player Brereton but really he was just a good footballer, nowhere near champion status.
3. Micheal Long- Could've been anything as he had looked to have finally found the consistency he was lacking during the 93 finals series. Sadly did his knee in a practice match the following year & came back brilliantly in 95 only to do it again in 96 & 97. Came back nowhere near the player after these injuries however if you listen to a lot of Essendon fans you'd think he was an all time great. People seem to mix up what he tried to for aboriginals while playing, which kept his profile up, with what he was doing on field, which post 95 wasn't a lot. He had occasional great games & moments in those years but if he wasn't Micheal Long, doing his best for his people, he would've played a lot of reserves footy. He didn't achieve enough to earn his place in the HOF, which is meant to be based on on-field deeds.
4. John Worsfold- A West Coast Great? Had about as much ability as Nick Maxwell who seemed to have a glod pass to do what he liked on-field & get away with it. Managed to break Richard Osbournes jaw in the final moments of a SOO game & had no case to answer. The tough guy image was built on belting young blokes most of the time & even the day he got Dermie the play was dead with Dermie standing still. Brave effort Woosha. Bounced off Ablett & Millane when he tried to take them on which was quite funny to watch. The highlight of his career was getting dropped for a final, Malthouse finally realising the other West Coast backmen had been carrying him for years.
5. Gavin Brown- A good solid player, no more, no less, Collingwood fans & to a lesser extent, the media,made him out to be some sort of football god. Had above average courage, good hands & solid skills although his kicking lacked penetration, that was it. Many games in the early to mid 90s I saw this guy strut around the field but not do a hell of a lot but the media always had his back telling us how he was playing injured. In reality he was a poor mans Mark Harvey. Came out of the 1990 GF with his reputation intact despite belting Sporn & copping 3 weeks for it. Another player whose place in the HOF can be questioned.
Current Top 5
1. Jonothan Brown- See above.
2. Chris Dawes- Just a big body on the ground who does nowhere near enough for a bloke his size. Drops a lot of marks but it gets called 'bringing the ball to ground'. All the talk of what he'd be worth on the open market during the year was laughable, 500K for a player like that? No way. Collingwood should've traded him off while he was 'hot' & get the high draft pick/s he is supposedly worth because he won't have a very long career. His GF was very poor.
3. Robert Murphy- He's a bit left of centre & the media, particuarly The Age who publish his stupid pieces, love him. Just cruises around half back doing what he wants to do & doesn't really seem to care much for what happens to the team, as long as his stats are ok all is good. AA selection this year was probably pushed hard by his mate Darcy.
4. Nic Natinui- Just pure media hype at this stage. The gap between his best & worst is just massive but because he can do something brilliant in his poor games he rarely gets criticised. The whole thing about him still learning the game gets a bit much too, he's probably been playing the game in some form since he was in primary school so even though he's now in the AFL he does no what he's meant to do when he has the ball & what to do when he hasn't. He's no Irishman, he's grown up with the game.
5. Tom Hawkins- May seem a bit of a strange choice due to his form in the finals this year but thats the point. He's still got a lot to prove at the start of the year & given his history theres every possibilty he will return to his disapointing way. A lot of people are just assuming that he will become the star he was mooted to be when he was first picked up. I hope he does, he seems like a good bloke & I wish him no harm but I think he still has a lot to prove. He could just as easy be playing VFL by r.8 as have 30 goals to his name. Will be interesting to see how he goes this year.
1. Jonothan Brown- The media love for this bloke was out of control from halfway through the 01 season & continued on ever since. He played a minor role in 3 flags & the reputation has just snowballed from there. In one of those years he kicked 14 goals from 19 games!! Had a couple of good years in 07-08 but no other years have been close to matching reputation. His finals reputation is massively overblown as is his leadership which seems to get more overated the more games he misses. Brisbanes been a basket case since he became captain yet he gets off the hook.
2. Gary Lyon- This bloke somehow became a Melbourne legend by having a solid career. He was another lauded for his leadership yet for most of his time as captain Melbourne were woeful. Had a lot of injuries, famously (thanks to the Footy Show) broke his leg early in his career then suffered from back problems from the mid 90s but it he was no superstar to begin with. His media profile is huge & he uses it on gameday to pot blokes for seemingly pulling out & pumping up his favourites. Listening to him you'd think he was the 5 day 5 night premiership player Brereton but really he was just a good footballer, nowhere near champion status.
3. Micheal Long- Could've been anything as he had looked to have finally found the consistency he was lacking during the 93 finals series. Sadly did his knee in a practice match the following year & came back brilliantly in 95 only to do it again in 96 & 97. Came back nowhere near the player after these injuries however if you listen to a lot of Essendon fans you'd think he was an all time great. People seem to mix up what he tried to for aboriginals while playing, which kept his profile up, with what he was doing on field, which post 95 wasn't a lot. He had occasional great games & moments in those years but if he wasn't Micheal Long, doing his best for his people, he would've played a lot of reserves footy. He didn't achieve enough to earn his place in the HOF, which is meant to be based on on-field deeds.
4. John Worsfold- A West Coast Great? Had about as much ability as Nick Maxwell who seemed to have a glod pass to do what he liked on-field & get away with it. Managed to break Richard Osbournes jaw in the final moments of a SOO game & had no case to answer. The tough guy image was built on belting young blokes most of the time & even the day he got Dermie the play was dead with Dermie standing still. Brave effort Woosha. Bounced off Ablett & Millane when he tried to take them on which was quite funny to watch. The highlight of his career was getting dropped for a final, Malthouse finally realising the other West Coast backmen had been carrying him for years.
5. Gavin Brown- A good solid player, no more, no less, Collingwood fans & to a lesser extent, the media,made him out to be some sort of football god. Had above average courage, good hands & solid skills although his kicking lacked penetration, that was it. Many games in the early to mid 90s I saw this guy strut around the field but not do a hell of a lot but the media always had his back telling us how he was playing injured. In reality he was a poor mans Mark Harvey. Came out of the 1990 GF with his reputation intact despite belting Sporn & copping 3 weeks for it. Another player whose place in the HOF can be questioned.
Current Top 5
1. Jonothan Brown- See above.
2. Chris Dawes- Just a big body on the ground who does nowhere near enough for a bloke his size. Drops a lot of marks but it gets called 'bringing the ball to ground'. All the talk of what he'd be worth on the open market during the year was laughable, 500K for a player like that? No way. Collingwood should've traded him off while he was 'hot' & get the high draft pick/s he is supposedly worth because he won't have a very long career. His GF was very poor.
3. Robert Murphy- He's a bit left of centre & the media, particuarly The Age who publish his stupid pieces, love him. Just cruises around half back doing what he wants to do & doesn't really seem to care much for what happens to the team, as long as his stats are ok all is good. AA selection this year was probably pushed hard by his mate Darcy.
4. Nic Natinui- Just pure media hype at this stage. The gap between his best & worst is just massive but because he can do something brilliant in his poor games he rarely gets criticised. The whole thing about him still learning the game gets a bit much too, he's probably been playing the game in some form since he was in primary school so even though he's now in the AFL he does no what he's meant to do when he has the ball & what to do when he hasn't. He's no Irishman, he's grown up with the game.
5. Tom Hawkins- May seem a bit of a strange choice due to his form in the finals this year but thats the point. He's still got a lot to prove at the start of the year & given his history theres every possibilty he will return to his disapointing way. A lot of people are just assuming that he will become the star he was mooted to be when he was first picked up. I hope he does, he seems like a good bloke & I wish him no harm but I think he still has a lot to prove. He could just as easy be playing VFL by r.8 as have 30 goals to his name. Will be interesting to see how he goes this year.
- Nov 20, 2011
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Both had their opportunities, I never bought up Buckley but the granny the Pies were in to the last qtr and he got the NS Voss was the one who dragged his team over the line, that's what it's all about.
Only played from u10's at Tullamarine to Surfers from u14 -u18 then seniors at Coorparoo till 32 years so no not much.
Where did I say I didn't think Ablett was a great player? Just because I think he is over rated doesn't mean I think he was a plodder. The way one person judges football shouldn't be enough for you to get your knickers in a knot.
I believe the Flag is what it's about and Ablett had some great players in his teams Hocking, Bairstow & Couch just to name a few all under rated players.
My opinion is that and not you or some other Geelong, Carlton or Essendon is going to change that.
Garry Lyon - definitely!
HyperAgressiveDonk
Cancelled
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- #394
Mate your one intelligent Hawk!
It's you're.
you serious?
Is that how you judge an overall players total output over the journey of their career?
Hypothetical....Hawthorn only win the one flag which was in 2008 and don't get another genuine crack until 2020, how will you judge Franklin's overall output (considering he basically did nothing at all in that one grand final appearance after averaging 4½ goals in that final series)?
Mate your one intelligent Hawk!
So you have a crack at my intellect?
Are we talking footy or did you want to talk about Chemical Engineering (my field)?
Let it go, I thought he was over rated maybe due to his selfishness (going to training when he felt like it) and other issues detracted from his footballing abilities. If you're happy with him good for you, I've seen Brereton, Franklin, Hodge and Dunstall mentioned by others but I'm not carrying on like a pork chop we all have opinions in footy and we don't all have to agree with every scribe and their favourites.
Fair enough, but you've gone out of your way to express that opinion in a public football forum and it's an opinion that doesn't make a lot of sense to most who saw the man play; so don't get touchy when supporters from all kinds of clubs rubbish it and look for some explanation beyond banal references to Grand Finals and Premierships.
I don't disagree with this, but Lyon was a very talented footballer. As a young lad it looked like he would become a champion player, but despite a few more than decent seasons he never really went on with forging that kind of career. Was pretty much done and dusted at 28yo and I wonder how much those back injuries prevented him from really coming on. Perhaps they're overrating the career more than the player.
So , if you played that much Football, you will realise that one man doesn't make a team or drag it over the line consistently. Ablett had some handy teammates as you have pointed out but the Cats defence in that era was very, very forgettable . Notwithstanding that he came damn close in 89 to play one of the great GF's by a forward.
You are entitled to your opinion but shit , you're a harsh judge..........
Look I've expressed my opinion and my reasons more than once, like I've always said there are plenty of other greats that have been mentioned in this Overrated List that aren't getting the same flack.
I thought your defence back then was OK with Lindner, Bos, Darcy S.Hocking and co.
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