List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[Jasper84]

Who knows?
There's a couple of statements that stick in my head.
"This is like a nuclear bomb going off across the league..." Well its gone off in our club...maybe others are still to come
Wright's goodbye statement re Ned Guy when he said something to the effect that Ned had done a good job in trying circumstances and people would only realise how good in years to come. The last part of that statement seemed to be a hint of some sort.....

Those 2 statements have always made me feel that for better or worse Collingwood made a decision to take all the pain n one hit and that other clubs potentially would face similar issues in years to come.

Bulging (burst) salary cap + Realisation in 2020 that the current side can't win a flag = Purge

My guess is the current top 8 bar maybe Essendon have no room at all in their salary caps. I suspect that Richmond, St Kilda and West Coast are in the position we were in last year, in that their lists aren't up to it and they can no longer expect players to take cuts on the promise of future success.

 

[Ugene41]

I think it needs to be Lynch or Cox not both for that reason. Trade whichever gets you the best deal.

Nah trade both if we can get something for them. No point just keeping them on the list in case of injury. That's what the midseason draft is for. If all our rucks are injured then we can just draft a state leaguer mid season to provide cover. Save our list spots for players that have the potential to become long term best 22 for us.

 

[Ugene41]

Exactly why we're not likely to get Lipinski across. Some club will probably still send that second round pick the bulldogs way though, one way or another.

It doesn't matter what other clubs are willing to pay. If Lipinski nominates us as an uncontracted player then we hold them over the barrell especially with our high PSD pick position.

Trades aren't a bidding war these days. Otherwise we would've sent Treloar to Gold Coast last year for a first round pick.

 

[partypie]

It doesn't matter what other clubs are willing to pay. If Lipinski nominates us as an uncontracted player then we hold them over the barrell especially with our high PSD pick position.

Trades aren't a bidding war these days. Otherwise we would've sent Treloar to Gold Coast last year for a first round pick.

It has been reported that a three year deal has been put in front of him by the Bulldogs. If that report is accurate then the option of "walking him to the PSD for nothing" is off the table.

 

[Ugene41]

It has been reported that a three year deal has been put in front of him by the Bulldogs. If that report is accurate then the option of "walking him to the PSD for nothing" is off the table.

Why? That's the definition of what the PSD is for. I think you're confusing it with delisted free agent. We can't sign him as a DFA if he has a contract offer from WB that he's rejected. But if he can't agree to a contract with WB and can't get a trade, he goes into the PSD.

 

[partypie]

Why? That's the definition of what the PSD is for. I think you're confusing it with delisted free agent. We can't sign him as a DFA if he has a contract offer from WB that he's rejected. But if he can't agree to a contract with WB and can't get a trade, he goes into the PSD.

If a deal is put on the table by a player's current club and the player refuses it then if the club sticks to their guns and doesn't trade the player (in the situation where trade offers are something less than they are willing to accept) and refuses to delist the player before the last pre-draft list lodgement then the player is taking a year off footy.

It's a similar situation to what happened with Cam McCarthy at GWS.

Ultimately it's a smart move by the Doggies to put the deal on the table, as they'll either get him to re-sign, or they'll have a stronger bargaining hand at the trade table in any trade negotiations that happen around him.

I stand corrected - he apparently can be walked to the PSD. Sucks for the Bulldogs but that's how it is I guess. Apologies for any confusion caused with my misunderstanding of the situation (or rather my recollection of the Cam McCarthy situation which led to it).

 

[mwhop]

most "expert" footy newspaper columns are ghostwritten.
The expert barely writes the idea down on the back of a beer coaster half the time
i doubt bucky has ever seen those player ratings

 

[Brad Goodman]

Are there any straight-kicking forwards on the market? I had a quick look at the accuracy for each club's top 3 goalkickers for 2021, and it doesn't look great for us.




Overall we weren't the most inaccurate team, but it would be nice for the guys taking the most shots to do a bit better than the above.

FWIW our three were Mihocek (34.34), Elliot (25.8, so definitely not part of the problem) and DeGoey (23.23).

 

[The Royal Sampler]

You can't put that up, it's from Facebook. Didn't you know that there some posters on here that know it's not true even though they have no ******* idea themselves. Be careful because you might end up with a barrage of laughing emoji's from these BF experts. They are very heroic

Zero Hanger at least quoted Twomey, who is noted within the industry and has some sources. If someone posts that Kane Cornes, Brad Hardie or Nathan Brown said so on radio, that’s fine because people know who Kane Cornes, Brad Hardie and Nathan Brown are, and generally will already have an opinion on how trustworthy their mail is.

Anonymous Facebook pages which state things as facts, e.g. “Dylan Stephens has told Sydney he wants to be traded to Collingwood”, but don’t cite any sources, are garbage and shouldn’t be given any oxygen.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

So what's the easiest way to summarise what actually did happen with our salary cap last year?

Ooooh, lemme start…

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Are there any straight-kicking forwards on the market? I had a quick look at the accuracy for each club's top 3 goalkickers for 2021, and it doesn't look great for us.

View attachment 1221470


Overall we weren't the most inaccurate team, but it would be nice for the guys taking the most shots to do a bit better than the above.

FWIW our three were Mihocek (34.34), Elliot (25.8, so definitely not part of the problem) and DeGoey (23.23).

Yikes, that’s bad. Can you do a quick total column of each teams scoring shots? Thank you!

 

[The Royal Sampler]

If a deal is put on the table by a player's current club and the player refuses it then if the club sticks to their guns and doesn't trade the player (in the situation where trade offers are something less than they are willing to accept) and refuses to delist the player before the last pre-draft list lodgement then the player is taking a year off footy.

Can I respectfully query that?

I don’t think a club can force a player to take a year out of footy, if he’s out of contract and refuses to sign your offer of a new contract.

If that is somehow true, litigation will surely result.

 

[partypie]

Are there any straight-kicking forwards on the market? I had a quick look at the accuracy for each club's top 3 goalkickers for 2021, and it doesn't look great for us.

View attachment 1221470


Overall we weren't the most inaccurate team, but it would be nice for the guys taking the most shots to do a bit better than the above.

FWIW our three were Mihocek (34.34), Elliot (25.8, so definitely not part of the problem) and DeGoey (23.23).

I reckon a lot of that was from a lot of our opportunities being further out and/or closer to the boundary. Not a whole lot of set shots taken 20-30m out with at most a slight angle for us this year.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Can I respectfully query that?

I don’t think a club can force a player to take a year out of footy, if he’s out of contract and refuses to sign your offer of a new contract.

If that is somehow true, litigation will surely result.

Correct RS.

PP is wrong in this instance.

If the player rejects the contract....then that's it.
the club can't keep players on their list who don't have a contract.

If the player takes a risk by rejecting it.

McCarthy was still contracted. hence why he "had to sit out the year" as it was too late for GWS to remove him from the list.
new rules (on the back of this) let clubs draft players in when a player 'retires' in the pre-season.

 

[partypie]

Can I respectfully query that?

I don’t think a club can force a player to take a year out of footy, if he’s out of contract and refuses to sign your offer of a new contract.

If that is somehow true, litigation will surely result.

Like I said it's happened before and afaik I don't think anything has changed in this space unless there is something I have missed. A three year deal is a pretty reasonable offer for any non-FA player on the fringe, so it's not like the Doggies are putting a 1 year deal at minimum chips to him.

The read on this is that the club is offering a reasonable deal and the player is refusing it, so the player is choosing to take the year off footy. Being traded to a club of their choice when their current club has an offer on the table for them isn't an ingrained right for players under the CBA.

 

[Trickster]

Would NM go for Stephens if we were to try and walk him to PSD? I'm also staggered they're not into Cerra as they could get him for nothing via that too and have dollars to spare.

I'd rather get Stephens for nothing and Lip for future 3rd if poss

 

[Crazy Tails]

Without a coach for next year I doubt they'd be discussing anything as big as trading JDG out.

GW was on radio the other day saying that most things were on hold with the list until the new coach came in and had his say. If I was coming in to a program to take over I would definitely prefer a player like JDG (who is still young enough and shown match winning traits) on the list rather than waiting years for some draft picks to possibly eventuate.

 

[manicpie]

It has been reported that a three year deal has been put in front of him by the Bulldogs. If that report is accurate then the option of "walking him to the PSD for nothing" is off the table.

You might want to check that, pretty sure that only applies if he is still contracted, which he won't be come season's end. we can absolutely walk him through to the PSD

 

[manicpie]

Would NM go for Stephens if we were to try and walk him to PSD? I'm also staggered they're not into Cerra as they could get him for nothing via that too and have dollars to spare.

I'd rather get Stephens for nothing and Lip for future 3rd if poss

Probably not but they will go for Weideman and probably pay him overs to come

 

[Apex36]

It has been reported that a three year deal has been put in front of him by the Bulldogs. If that report is accurate then the option of "walking him to the PSD for nothing" is off the table.

No it’s not. AFAIK if he doesn’t accept a deal from his club there’s nothing stopping him nominating for the psd, sunless im missing something?

 

[Scodog10]

If a deal is put on the table by a player's current club and the player refuses it then if the club sticks to their guns and doesn't trade the player (in the situation where trade offers are something less than they are willing to accept) and refuses to delist the player before the last pre-draft list lodgement then the player is taking a year off footy.

It's a similar situation to what happened with Cam McCarthy at GWS.

Ultimately it's a smart move by the Doggies to put the deal on the table, as they'll either get him to re-sign, or they'll have a stronger bargaining hand at the trade table in any trade negotiations that happen around him.

Jackson Hately was in the same situation this time last year and he was on Adelaide’s list in 2021. You also can’t stop a player from re-entering the draft process if they decline a contract offer.

Cam McCarthy was contracted which is why it was speculated on that he’d need to take time off. Not that I’m advocating the PSD as an option with Lipinski.

 

[jonmacTrag]

There are two reasonable explanations.

1) He did the list while drinking.
2) He did the list while drinking and hasn't watched a Collingwood game in 2 years.


This isn't just on Buck, who I'll never read a word of again, but also the editorial and subbing standard of the Herald Sun. How this wasn't flagged, checked and corrected is beyond me.

'Opinion piece' is a catch all that allows the media outlet to deny all responsibility for the article.

 

[frizzle]

Are there any straight-kicking forwards on the market? I had a quick look at the accuracy for each club's top 3 goalkickers for 2021, and it doesn't look great for us.

View attachment 1221470


Overall we weren't the most inaccurate team, but it would be nice for the guys taking the most shots to do a bit better than the above.

FWIW our three were Mihocek (34.34), Elliot (25.8, so definitely not part of the problem) and DeGoey (23.23).

Because we don't coach goal kicking at all. As Jen mentioned to me when I asked her recently. We just send players to do goal kicking practice at the end of training with no coach feedback. No chance to improve under those conditions. They are just practising bad technique. Hopefully the new coaches will put a greater emphasis on it.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Correct RS.

PP is wrong in this instance.

If the player rejects the contract....then that's it.
the club can't keep players on their list who don't have a contract.

If the player takes a risk by rejecting it.

McCarthy was still contracted. hence why he "had to sit out the year" as it was too late for GWS to remove him from the list.
new rules (on the back of this) let clubs draft players in when a player 'retires' in the pre-season.

Thanks mate, that was my gut feel but I didn’t have a precedent to cite. Appreciate the clarification.

 

[Ugene41]

If a deal is put on the table by a player's current club and the player refuses it then if the club sticks to their guns and doesn't trade the player (in the situation where trade offers are something less than they are willing to accept) and refuses to delist the player before the last pre-draft list lodgement then the player is taking a year off footy.

It's a similar situation to what happened with Cam McCarthy at GWS.

Ultimately it's a smart move by the Doggies to put the deal on the table, as they'll either get him to re-sign, or they'll have a stronger bargaining hand at the trade table in any trade negotiations that happen around him.

No that's completely wrong. Cam McCarthy was contracted for one more year. That's why he had that year off until his deal with GWS ran out.

Edit: Looks like other posters have already covered this.