Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[immortalmike]

I'd say Hunter is more Dal Santo than Stevie J, yeah Hrovat is different, he is the most polished out of them blokes and he could develop into a mix of a Luke Parker/ Boomer type of player, but I still say if a gun KPF was available and we'd have to do a deal like our 1st rounder and a good young prospect and the bargaining club wanted him to clinch the deal then you've just got to grit your teeth and accept it.

This is what I'm saying from my post, unpopular opinion but he is somewhat replaceable if something like this occurred in the future.

I have no real problem with your opinion on trading except to say that Hrovat is not as replaceable as some may think i.e., we really don't have another player with his mix on our list. But yeah if the right deal came along you'd have to think about it.

 

[theAthenian]

Well to be honest, I am far from as you quote....

"Another opinion Nazi" - Yes, I do have my own opinion, as do you which I respectfully mentioned twice. Never been a member of the Nazi party though, I'm not exactly 90 years old

"Who hides" - I'm Michael, what's up?

"Behind psuedo political correctness and evangelical righteousness - If you're comparing me to a Nun, then far from it. In fact I am one of the most least Politically correct people out there. Except for things such as human rights etc. But I will happily take that one as it sounds funny

"To belittle" - Would anyone care to point out where I apparently bullied, poked fun of this guy? Geez, I didn't know I was that mean

"To belittle" - Hey NathanMJ_WB54, it's your favorite word

"Your blatantly askew and delluded perceptions of the world according to YOU" - Wait what? We were talking about world issues here? Actually I am a realist, which means I am well and truly aware of how the world operates and how it is not exactly a nice place. So you're well off the mark about ME

"I WILL STATE THAT AS A PAYING MEMBER ANY ****EN WAY I LIKE" - Yes, because having money totally makes your opinion more valid than a non paying fan *eye roll* You sound like you could star in your own version of Housewives Of Melbourne.

"I WILL STATE THAT AS A PAYING MEMBER ANY ****EN WAY I LIKE" - I to am a paying member, and I also have my own opinions about players, and have my own opinions about who I think won't make it, I even dislike some players myself. Not saying you should be all cookies and cream over it all. It is one thing to express a strong opinion in an intelligent and straight forward way, and another thing to sound like a complete a**hole. Particularly your response to me, well done

"no offence intended" - None taken

You couldnt just state your opinion
You had to take a swipe and insult my intelligence
next time .....................
"be more respectful about it"
sound familiar?

 

[theAthenian]

I respect your opinion and understand where you come from. I think Jong has the speed and strength to become a valued role player (as a tagger ... Ryan Crowley style). He is always going to struggle in the footy smarts department, especially his decision making when disposing of the ball. His role in the team will not be the player who kicks 4 goals and has 30 possessions, but I think he has the potential to stop opponents from doing just that.

i was about to say that i accept that point when MR Selfrighteous Schoolteacher decided to reprimand and put me "in my place" - apparently this and i quote...........

"while dreaming is fun......we cant sign carlisle because we just blew our wad on ..... resigning lin jong for another 2 just in case Kooweerup West poached him"

is disrespectful

 

[go you pups]

I have no real problem with your opinion on trading except to say that Hrovat is not as replaceable as some may think i.e., we really don't have another player with his mix on our list. But yeah if the right deal came along you'd have to think about it.

In an ideal Bulldog world we would trade 2nd rounders and surplus players to get in elite talent elsewhere and keep our A graders, but it just doesn't happen if we want to get in a statement marquee player, thank god for free agency say the big performing successful clubs.

 

[theAthenian]

on the positive side i generated another page of angst for a 745page thread lol

 

[DylanW]

wrecked

rekt*

 

[immortalmike]

In an ideal Bulldog world we would trade 2nd rounders and surplus players to get in elite talent elsewhere and keep our A graders, but it just doesn't happen if we want to get in a statement marquee player, thank god for free agency say the big performing successful clubs.

Oh certainly I spent a fair amount of wasted bandwith pointing out the problems with some of the potential trades proposed for Patton earlier in the year. In order to get quality you have to give up quality, unless you're Sydney and have an unlimited money cheat code.
I do have to say that I think we'll sign our fair share of free agents when we eventually get into our window. We were a destination club when we were making consecutive prelims and I feel we will be again when our time comes. This is actually one of the reasons why I'm worried about giving long-term high money contracts to unproven or "just okay" players. When we need the cash it might not be there.

 

[go you pups]

Oh certainly I spent a fair amount of wasted bandwith pointing out the problems with some of the potential trades proposed for Patton earlier in the year. In order to get quality you have to give up quality, unless you're Sydney and have an unlimited money cheat code.
I do have to say that I think we'll sign our fair share of free agents when we eventually get into our window. We were a destination club when we were making consecutive prelims and I feel we will be again when our time comes. This is actually one of the reasons why I'm worried about giving long-term high money contracts to unproven or "just okay" players. When we need the cash it might not be there.

During our 2006-2010 period every key player we signed was at least 28, which was too old. Hudson, Aker, Hall, Welsh etc then the much younger Sherman came along at the end of that period to add "finish".

Why back then did Clayton and Eade target older guys and still went to the draft and added busts to the list? We tried getting Bazza in 2008 but Sydney declined so we went back there the next year and got him after he quit. I don't think we were a destination club as such, it was just a second opportunity for most except Hudson who was a coup for us who instantly replaced Street and Darcy.

Back in 2003 Rawlings was a big signing at the time (even though we all know how that ended). I say go hard at Reid and Jaksch, give Reid a Crameri type deal and he has to perform, give Jaksch some long term flexibility but then it's up to him to work up for the big dollars etc. These guys are 22 and 20, plenty of time left and they can grow with our young mids and defenders and we should peak at the right time.

I look at Tippett for example, he was a 1.5-1.75 goal a game forward at Adelaide, moved to Sydney has some injury problems but doubles his output to a 3 goal a game forward because he's in his prime at 26-27 now. Anyways just a thought.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Centre Half Back, his best and most consistent position. If hypothetically he successfully used the get out clause, and we got him as a free agent. We could then trade up for Wright. Trade out our second rounder for Jacksch, and try to find an extra pick by trading out a player or few, to grab another forward/defender/tall classy mid/rebounder. All that whilst unrealistic, could be the ideal/dream scenario for the Dogs in the offseason.

If we do make a pitch for Carlisle, I hope it is not something massively excessive that we cannot make a pitch for a key forward next season.




Sorry to bust everyone's balls, but that Patton rumor is false in my opinion. Clubs CANNOT make offers during the season, its against the rules. And the club categorically denied we put up an offer for Patton. Plus Garlick said on SEN yesterday that we would not offer someone too much money at the expense of a balanced list/budget.

Someone out there seems to have an obsession with starting Patton rumours. Remember the ones about him being Whitten Oval despite being away on holiday anyone? That the media would have gotten hold of anyway if true, we are so guliable. And because we desperate want him that much, we all get excited and buy into it and make 20 pages on the topic. There has been zero proof, yet some of us act so sure about it, so more people write about it, then all of a sudden everyone thinks its true because others do

A club may have made a massive life changing offer to him, but I highly doubt it is us. Unless we offer a solid amount but a long contract it could be. But if someone is offering him 800k to a million, then I highly doubt it is us

Garlick didn't actually say that, he said that it may cause issues with list management however the club is in a position to make such an offer should opportunity present itself. I think there's a little bit to that Patton deal but I don't believe it was Patton.

 

[_M_16_]

Garlick didn't actually say that, he said that it may cause issues with list management however the club is in a position to make such an offer should opportunity present itself. I think there's a little bit to that Patton deal but I don't believe it was Patton.

My bad, but still close enough

 

[farstrider]

Garlick didn't actually say that, he said that it may cause issues with list management however the club is in a position to make such an offer should opportunity present itself. I think there's a little bit to that Patton deal but I don't believe it was Patton.

If not Patton, then who?

 

[doggies ftw]

Still flip-flopping on Jong a lot. Rapt to give him 2 years on the senior list though, his rate of improvement has been amazing especially considering he broke his leg last year.

I think a run with roles ideal for him at the moment because he can learn off the best but long term I think he definitely has a bit to offer. Don't think he's necessarily a bad kick just his decision making isn't up to scratch at the moment but he's starting to use his pace a bit just needs to start finding a bit more space. Think he can offer the pace we need, especially defensively, but also with his attack on the ball he also fits in with our game perfectly so he's a unique proposition.

When we have Jong, Smith, Libba, and Wally around the ball you will genuinely cop an absolute battering playing us but I think they can all fit in the same team in the modern game. So long as we surround them with the likes of Bonts, Macrae, Hrovat, Griff and Hunter and probably a Menadue/Laverde type as well.

 

[TempleKelvington]

While most of MDs stuff was trolling, I agree with him that if a player like Hrovat is a bargaining chip to get the gun KPF we need to have a crack at a flag from 2017-2022 then so be it.

We have Honeychurch, Dahlhaus, Tutt and Hunter already who all have similar characteristics to Hrovat and we can always trade with our mate's Collingwood for 1 of their 5 foot 10 brigade that they've loaded up on.

Untouchables are imo Libba, Stringer, Macrae, Dahlhaus (marketing reasons) and Bontempelli.

Yeah but.....no but.....I'm not from the school of thought that thinks trading away good young players to get another good young player is the best way to go. Of course, if that good young player is restless, not committed to the club and so on then ok, could be a win.

Otherwise it seems to me that end up with a zero sum game....or worse what you trade in does not work for the club on field or off field.

You believe that we have enough players in our midfield group....I don't agree. We are building a good, deep midfield and the surplus good mids among them can be moved to the flanks back and forward. We need it to get our mid stocks better and deeper, it's not there yet.

Trading a classy small mid like Hrovat just weakens that build.

We need KP players....actually we just need bloody good ones. But we can't be blinded by it. If at the end of the trade and draft period we end up with another Bont and few young KP players who need time.....then so be it. Our midfield stocks build again. I like that mostly we are developing from within, and when and if we get a chance at a big fish and we can get that player without jeopardising the rest of the build then happy days.

The price you pay for wanting something too much can be very expensive.

 

[fronkalicious]

2 years for Jong is a stretch. The guy is an A grade athlete but his footy nous is poor. Sceptical.

 

[igloo dweller]

2 years for Jong is a stretch. The guy is an A grade athlete but his footy nous is poor. Sceptical.

he's got two years on what i would suggest is minimum AFL wage. reckon at this price, with his gifts and rate of improvement he's worth it.

 

[Godogs247]

15 Untuchable Players

Griff
Hrovatt
McCrae
Bont
Talia
Rouhy
Smith
Dalh
Stringer
Crameri
Campbell
Libba
Wallis
Hunter
Honey
Stevens
JJ
Darley

Rest will be on the table--Leting Higgins go brings a few problems we have a gap between 24-27 age bracket history tells us thats not a good mix

 

[Gmod23]

2 years for Jong is a stretch. The guy is an A grade athlete but his footy nous is poor. Sceptical.

Our of our biggest midfield issues is covering on a turnover. Until our skills get good enough that we turn the ball over less, we need players like Jong to be playing on the defensive side of the ball to limit the damage of a 'free' player running into space immediately on the turnover. Too many games we have lost as no one covers. I like Jong's size to defensively spoil and speed to get there....
In a few years, we might be better skilled by foot and not need Jong, but in that time his skills could become good and then we have a longer term keeper.
This is a minimal risk decision.

 

[Mutt]

2 years for Jong is a stretch. The guy is an A grade athlete but his footy nous is poor. Sceptical.

Understand your view Fonk but I've seen a lot of improvement from Jong and, given his athleticism and combination of speed and power, he is definitely worth a two year contract on the minimum in my view. There may be quite a lot of upside remaining in Jong.

 

[TedDougChris]

2 years for Jong is a stretch. The guy is an A grade athlete but his footy nous is poor. Sceptical.

I would have offered 1 year plus an option for a second. I am a bit worried we're overcommitting to players with the length of contracts being offered.

 

[Gmod23]

After watching a few replays of our game style, both WB and Footscray. I have a feeling that both sides are being currently used for player development. Our structure at Footscray is much better than at AFL level. This got me thinking....
Some of our AFL players actually look worse than our VFL players, yet they are stuck at VFL level almost all year. Players like Talia, Roberts, Grant, Jones, etc are playing better in my opinion than Austin. Could we be trying to build their confidence, skill level, strength and ability at VFL before bringing them into our AFL team next year or the year after?
NFL teams regularly develop players for a few years before they see the field and these players have already played at the college level and are normally over 20 before being drafted. Could we be following the same model? Or am I over thinking this?

 

[MJ_Dogs]

After watching a few replays of our game style, both WB and Footscray. I have a feeling that both sides are being currently used for player development. Our structure at Footscray is much better than at AFL level. This got me thinking....
Some of our AFL players actually look worse than our VFL players, yet they are stuck at VFL level almost all year. Players like Talia, Roberts, Grant, Jones, etc are playing better in my opinion than Austin. Could we be trying to build their confidence, skill level, strength and ability at VFL before bringing them into our AFL team next year or the year after?
NFL teams regularly develop players for a few years before they see the field and these players have already played at the college level and are normally over 20 before being drafted. Could we be following the same model? Or am I over thinking this?

Could be. Maybe we want them to learn their craft without the added pressures of an AFL game. Maybe at this stage in the players' development its counterproductive to learn at the AFL level with all the added pressures?? I dunno. Just a thought.

 

[TedDougChris]

After watching a few replays of our game style, both WB and Footscray. I have a feeling that both sides are being currently used for player development. Our structure at Footscray is much better than at AFL level. This got me thinking....
Some of our AFL players actually look worse than our VFL players, yet they are stuck at VFL level almost all year. Players like Talia, Roberts, Grant, Jones, etc are playing better in my opinion than Austin. Could we be trying to build their confidence, skill level, strength and ability at VFL before bringing them into our AFL team next year or the year after?
NFL teams regularly develop players for a few years before they see the field and these players have already played at the college level and are normally over 20 before being drafted. Could we be following the same model? Or am I over thinking this?

I think you are correct, they are trying to get the building blocks of their games and development correct before exposing them at AFL level. Get the basics right and then move on.

Would be good for the club to actually bloody say this, would ease a lot of tension in the supporters ranks....

 

[Tommycash]

Where would we play him? Forward or back?

With his end to the year I would say up forward. Maybe swing him down back occasionally if he's/we are having a bad day or something like that.

 

[razorwick]

Understand your view Fonk but I've seen a lot of improvement from Jong and, given his athleticism and combination of speed and power, he is definitely worth a two year contract on the minimum in my view. There may be quite a lot of upside remaining in Jong.

Kid has been given this as reward for effort. His workrate is phenomenal and his courage speaks for itself. Team mates love him for this, at the very least many can learn from his attitude to the team.

 

[footyfan000001]

We should rookie Bradie Foster from the Recruit