Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I'm glad nobody on this board is negotiating for us. Blinking far too quickly.
Straight swap is the offer...and we await the response.

Not much fun to sit here talking about the same offer all week though. Just interested in looking at some hypotheticals.

 

[skooshtamart]

A generational tall forward? Get back to me when he shows something. Jeremy Cameron is the only one who could claim they've even shown anywhere near potential to be a generational key forward. A player doesn't instantly become a superstar because he was drafted at pick 1.

Giving away a genuine superstar in Griffen for a relatively unknown quantity is a big win for the Giants and in all honesty we shouldn't be looking at giving anything more. I'm fairly certain we'll end up bending over and giving them more but I hold hope.

Spot on.

Griffen is currently our (Rolls Royce) best player, stick him in the guts you have instant grunt. which arguably for the next two-three years will be GWS best player. With possibly 5 years of solid service. Boyd still has 60-70 games of development before we see the full potential which is filled with risk.

straight swap is overs, GWS should take it and run, we should be asking for pick 4 swapping a second rounder. Griffen is elite you have to pay for elite. Boyd might, maybe, could, currently he is not elite.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I doubt a straight swap will be the outcome, though. We might as well occupy ourselves by discussing different trade scenarios

 

[immortalmike]

Not much fun to sit here talking about the same offer all week though. Just interested in looking at some hypotheticals.

Just think people have fallen in love with Boyd at any cost. Wright ain't chopped liver, and 90% chance he's there at 4.
Pick 6 and our captain (top 5 mid in the league) is far too much for a 9 game key forward no matter how much potential he has.

 

[JTCWBFC]

Just think people have fallen in love with Boyd at any cost. Wright ain't chopped liver, and 90% chance he's there at 4.
Pick 6 and our captain (top 5 mid in the league) is far too much for a 9 game key forward no matter how much potential he has.

What about for Boyd and WHE? Think a rumour was posted on here recently that he could make his way to the dogs?

Imagine the shit stir if another GWS young gun came out and requested a trade tomorrow! Ah the serenity.

 

[wian]

Gordon won't budge I reckon. He smells blood

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Just think people have fallen in love with Boyd at any cost. Wright ain't chopped liver, and 90% chance he's there at 4.
Pick 6 and our captain (top 5 mid in the league) is far too much for a 9 game key forward no matter how much potential he has.

I agree - hence why I'm exploring options for what we can get back. I'd close down the deal completely before I offered Griffen and 6 for Boyd alone.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

What free agents apart from Dangerfield, are the best players in the league that are avaliable in 2015? I have a theory, that we're gearing up for a free agent selection.

Here's that theory. Firstly for the sake of simplicity, assume the salary cap is $10 million and will remain constant over the next few years. Secondly assume any new draftees or traded in players will have the same salary as the equivalent players that are delisted/retired the very same year.

Say we're paying 95% of the cap now. That's 9.5 million. With the loss of Griffen, Higgins, Cooney, that's 1.5 million in contract, roughly, gone. (Make the assumption that the 4/5 draft selections this year plus Tom Boyd's compulsory 200k draft contract for 2015 will make the exact same salary as the outgoing salaries of the 5 delisted/retired players)

So that means we're going to be at 80% of the cap. Here's what you do - get 15 of our players who are, or are going to be, contracted to 2017. You get them to add 100k more to their 2015 salary and take off 100k from their 2017 salary. This means that our 2015 salary is at 95% and the salary floor.

The new AFL equalisation rules state that if you pay the salary floor of 95% one year you are allowed to pay 105% the next year. Tom Boyd's contract, on our list, will increase from 200k p/y as per his draft contract, to $1.2 million per year from 2016 onwards That increases our salary cap to 105% in 2016. However, the 15 players' front loaded contracts will decrease by 66.67k each, totalling $1 million in total, and meaning we're back to 95% of the cap. This gives us room to pay $1 million a year for a gun free agent at the end of 2015, using Dangerfield as a placeholder. That would push us up to 105% of the cap in 2016 which we are allowed to do because we only used 95% in year 2015.

However, the rules state that you're only allowed one year at 105% before you have to return to 100%. Don't fear! This will be achieved by the 15 players contracts reducing by 33.333k each, totalling 500k and thus having a salary that meets the cap of 100% exactly.

Hopefully we win the flag in 2017 then because we'll have a fourth year Boyd, a second year, 28 year old free agent like Dangerfield who will be one of the best players in the comps, and all of our current young talent who we will lose none of but they will get better and at their peak in 2017. Hopefully we win a flag next year cause when those 15 players start asking for a pay rise we're kinda screwed. So hope wee win a flag and they all take a pay cut to stay together and win more flags.

Again, this is all theoretical numbers that I fiddle around with for the sake of simplicity. This assumes that all contracts take up a portion % of the cap - if a player has a flat salary, over time their salary is actually effectively and relatively front-ended due to the increase of the cap over time.

 

[immortalmike]

What about for Boyd and WHE? Think a rumour was posted on here recently that he could make his way to the dogs?

Imagine the shit stir if another GWS young gun came out and requested a trade tomorrow! Ah the serenity.

Check my post before the one you quoted...

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Look at purely from an objective business perspective.
It's a low risk high reward play for the giants, they get someone who they know can perform at the elite level, for a player who might be something or might be nothing. From our perspective it's a huge high risk high reward play, trading away our best player for an unproven 19 year old.

Why would we be the ones to throw in a sweetener when we're the ones taking all the risk?

You have a pick 1 who has played a handful of games and a club who have invested their future in, leaving after 1 year and before they have seen anything like his best. And Griff is/was our best player, but not for long. My views on him are well known, but at 28, losing him is of little, not no, but little consequence. The look for the club, however is poor. Trading in a genuine star KPF is something this club has craved for 60 years. If he is half as good as many believe he will be, he's the bargain of the decade. If we don't pay overs, someone else will and we miss out.

Again.

 

[JTCWBFC]

Check my post before the one you quoted...

I like it. Make them bleed.

 

[goodcop badcop]

I doubt a straight swap will be the outcome, though. We might as well occupy ourselves by discussing different trade scenarios

Agreed, we have 705 pages before we get to page 1954. This should be our goal before trade week ends.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Gee, that's probably the best post I'll ever make.

It's amazing how you can manipulate the salary cap numbers and maybe just maybe we'll recruit Dangerfield for $1 million p/y at the end of next year.

 

[Dry Rot]

Gee, that's probably the best post I'll ever make.

It's amazing how you can manipulate the salary cap numbers and maybe just maybe we'll recruit Dangerfield for $1 million p/y at the end of next year.

No other club can do this sort of stuff?

 

[Dogsman16]

Boyd and Haynes for Griff and 6 would be my final offer. I rate Haynes about 10 - 12 in terms of his worth as a draft pick and obviously griff for boyd is slight unders. Patful also is coming to that football club and hes the perfect 3rd tall defender. Davis has KPF number 1, Does Haynes or someone bigger get number 2. Think we should try to extract him to a us a football club light on tall defenders and he can instantly slot in. Plus GWS get picks 4 and 6 to turn into pick 1.

 

[yebiga]

Who is this Richmond Matthew Dea and why is he linked to us?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

No other club can do this sort of stuff?

Yep, but hopefully with a good showing/potential next year, Dangerfield/equivalent big name Free Agent, + the 200/300k extra he could get with a million per year with us against 700-800k at anothe team might be enough.

The whole point of that post was to try and demonstrate how we would go all guns blazing for a free agent at the end of next year - paying 800k plus - to go all out for the 2017 flag.

Can I put money on us for the 2017 flag now?

 

[JTCWBFC]

Boyd and Haynes for Griff and 6 would be my final offer. I rate Haynes about 10 - 12 in terms of his worth as a draft pick and obviously griff for boyd is slight unders. Patful also is coming to that football club and hes the perfect 3rd tall defender. Davis has KPF number 1, Does Haynes or someone bigger get number 2. Think we should try to extract him to a us a football club light on tall defenders and he can instantly slot in. Plus GWS get picks 4 and 6 to turn into pick 1.

I think if Haynes came to us he would play the third tall role, only 192cm I believe?

 

[Rookie]

Who is this Richmond Matthew Dea and why is he linked to us?

Source?

 

[Scully2Folau]

Boyd and Haynes for Griff and 6 would be my final offer. I rate Haynes about 10 - 12 in terms of his worth as a draft pick and obviously griff for boyd is slight unders. Patful also is coming to that football club and hes the perfect 3rd tall defender. Davis has KPF number 1, Does Haynes or someone bigger get number 2. Think we should try to extract him to a us a football club light on tall defenders and he can instantly slot in. Plus GWS get picks 4 and 6 to turn into pick 1.

Don't think we'd do Haynes for 6 straight up, so wouldn't add him to that deal. Patfull will predominantly take the number 2 tall, but he and Haynes give us flexibility.

 

[Dogs 13]

If we can't get a Boyd for Griffin trade going then I hope that PG turns to Griff and says "Congratulations, you get to be the highest paid VFL player of all time" even if it is out of extreme pettiness.

Anyone who thinks that IF we kept Griff that he'd be running around in the 2s is delusional.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Anyone who thinks that IF we kept Griff that he'd be running around in the 2s is delusional.

Agreed.
If we keep Griff, it will because he withdraws his trade request and reconciles with the club and the new coach.
So as long as he wants to go to GWS, it's in our best interests to trade him now, and instead lose him to FA.

 

[Dogs 13]

Agreed.
If we keep Griff, it will because he withdraws his trade request and reconciles with the club and the new coach.
So as long as he wants to go to GWS, it's in our best interests to trade him now, and instead lose him to FA.

Yup

 

[Werewolf]

Who's best out of Wright, McCartin and Boyd? I reckon St.Kilda will use pick 1 to either snare Boyd or draft a KPF.

 

[Super Hans]

Who's best out of Wright, McCartin and Boyd? I reckon St.Kilda will use pick 1 to either snare Boyd or draft a KPF.

Boyd. Besides Patton he's the best forward prospect since Hawkins.