I dunno. I reckon WADA and CAS are really going to go after them, and the actions of their club and perhaps the players themselves will have ruled out penalty discounts.
I just hope there is some clarity on the situation before trade week.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion
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I dunno. I reckon WADA and CAS are really going to go after them, and the actions of their club and perhaps the players themselves will have ruled out penalty discounts.
I just hope there is some clarity on the situation before trade week.
I haven't seen his ruck work - how do you rate it?
Then maybe Roughie isn't our long term ruck answer?
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Don't rate his tapwork all that much, but he's competent.
I love his work around the ground, though. I'm convinced he's the player Beveridge wants Ayce to be.
You always need another quality key position player.
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Roughead was a very good junior ruckman and was very good in the ruck in his first year for us in the VFL. Since his first year he's never really been played as the main ruck. I've always thought potentially he was the best ruckman we have on our list, but he was probably seen more as a tap ruckman.
Here's a draft profile of him from Colin Wiseby. For those who haven't heard of Wiseby, I've found his draft profiles to be the most accurate of anyone's that I've seen. He was employed as a recruiter after 2008, so he knows his stuff.
Jordan Roughead (North Ballarat Rebels)
200/92 mid-age right foot (has other foot if necessary) ruck
*STYLE LIKE: Charman
*MY RANKING (not meant to reflect appropriate draft pick to use): 13
*PROBABILITY OF AFL CAREER: Definite. Ready year 2.
- Within an AFL team list, could prove capable of SUSTAINING a ranking of 3-5.
*HURT FACTORS (Offensive/Defensive/Negative): M / LM / M
*TRADEMARK:
- Centre-bounce palm-out down the throat of a team-mate in a position to effect a clean disposal.
*MAIN SELLING POINTS:
- Ruck smarts, skills.
- Vision
- Leap
- Ethic
- Improvement trend / Scope for further improvement
- Decision-making / smarts
*MAIN QUERY:
- Kicking reliability (not a huge issue though).
*SUMMARY ASSESSMENT, RECOMMENDATION:
- 200cm ruck who only committed to footy fairly recently. An ex basketballer who actually plays an inside game yet brings to the table some useful basketball attributes and smarts. The most impressive ruck skills of any underage ruck in this draft.
- Quite good ethic, can take a grab, smart and usually makes right decisions, mobile (although lacks a little pace), quite good endurance.
- I don't get excited about Jim Stynes-type ruckwork (i.e. statistically win the hit-out but the ball drops at the ruckman's feet, to no-one's advantage). Roughead though is "definite AFL" purely for his frequency of silver service to his mids, at centre bounces especially, regardless of whatever else he brings to the table.
- If my club's main intention was to draft a ruck primarily for ability to do frequent hitouts to genuine advantage, Roughead would be my clear choice ... in a heartbeat. And that's despite my very high regard for 3 other rucks in this draft. And, given that hypothetical drafting priority, I'd use whatever pick was believed necessary to ensure I got my man.
- An encouraging bonus with Roughead is his improvement around the ground. His improvement trend in that aspect is very solid. Averaged only 9d in '07 but improved to 14d in '08. In his last 8 TAC games, he averaged 16d and his quietest game in terms of possessions was 13 (he also had 24d in one of those games). In his previous 16 TAC games, he only got *more* than 13d 4 times. 66% improvement on last year's average and 25% up on his average in the first 1/2 of '08. He's unlikely to have the elite follower ability of Cox but, given time, he will be a more than handy possession-gathering AFL ruck around the ground, perhaps regularly 15-20d a game.
Vickery is the Vic ruck we often associate with mobility and around the ground stuff but Roughead is not all that far behind. Vickery averaged 17d at TAC level and 11d in '08 Champs and Roughead 14d and 7d. In the 2nd half of both their '08 seasons, Vickery averaged a Cox-like 21d, Roughead 16d.
Roughead is no Paul Salmon but he's no duffer around goals either. He is not an "in the ruck or on the bench" type. He is quite capable of a good grab up forward (or a gather and snap). Kicked 11-5 in '08 following 8-2 in '07 and he continues to improve in that area.
RUCKWORK:
- Displays the most intelligent, skilled, mature, effective ruckwork I've seen in an U18 ruck for some time. He doesn't just ruck to a predictable formula as many rucks do. e.g. He varies his positioning and approach at centre bounces. (e.g. Sometimes cleverly pre-positions himself at CB just marginally his side of the line then immediately moves over the line as ball is bounced, allowing him to take "front posn" coming from side - sometimes from the left, sometimes from the right). His ability to tactically think through ruck contest gives him a major advantage over many opponents. A bigger bag of tricks and tactical smarts also means that if an opponent seems to have his measure with one approach, Roughead can seamlessly switch tactics without having to compromise his own capability. At the very least, he keeps the other ruck guessing.
- A ruck's tap-outs with hurt factor to a targeted team-mate are most potent at CB's and that's Roughhead's biggest differential strength compared to other rucks in this draft but he is also very efficient at non-CB ruck contests.
- Excellent awareness of where his teammates are.
- Very big leap and times it extremely well.
- His own clearance work is fairly good and he is now a ruck who sees his job at ruck contests as not over until the ball is cleared from the area. I really value that.
- Usually holds his ground but occasionally fails to (and the times I've noticed it fail, it's surprisingly usually been against a short, lighter ruck, not a giant).
- Most of his ruckwork against VM was against McKernan who he beat comfortably but he did also beat Vickery in their limited time in ruck together. On other occasions when they've met, Roughead has had the better of Vickery at CB and they've roughly broken at non-CB. Beat Naitanui "on points" in their contests and beat Redden also (Redden did some nice work himself but Roughead definitely won on the day).
*DISPOSAL:
- Kicking accuracy let him down a bit this year but he does some good kicks. He's certainly not an unco ruck who *has* to do 1m feeds instead of kicking.
- Very reliable by hand. In fairness, many of his feeds are little give-offs typical of a ruck, so I'm not suggesting he's the next Polly Farmer, but some do have good hurt factor and he does display quick hands.
*DECISION-MAKING, SMARTS:
- Decision-making / smarts, especially vision, are a major strength and perhaps his basketball background comes to the fore here. He thinks through situations very well, he almost routinely looks for options (and usually makes the right choice) and he often shows excellent vision. He does some really clever things and displays quick thinking.
*HANDS:
- Regularly clean. Not just ground balls but his aerial ball control is also very good, even under great pressure.
Ball control (as distinct from ground ball cleanness) is a fairly handy ability in a mid around the ground but inside stoppages is more than handy - it's a really productive attribute to have, given how often the ball is up in the air either from a ruckman's hit-out or from popping up from the hands of whoever gathers the spills. It's something I value in an inside mid but, in a ruckman, it's a gem. Roughead's very adept in this area.
*OVERHEAD MARKING:
- Not yet a feature but he sometimes takes a very good contested grab, either front or behind and usually under great pressure. Took a screamer mid-pack under great pressure against Eastern Ranges in R13 last year - hung in the air.
Usually judges well, attacks his marks. Hands usually good, even under the greatest of pressure..
*ATHLETICISM:
- His DC results were OK but he looked tired by the end of his '08 season so I wouldn't read anything negative into his "fair"endurance results. eg His DC beep was an "OK" 12-07 but he did almost a level better (13-03) at TAC pre-season testing. By comparison, Vickery constantly records beeps in the 11's and Naitanui's beeps have typically been in the 12's. Similarly, Roughead's normal on-field endurance is much better than his DC 3km of 12.23min might suggest.
- Very big leap.
- Pace is "slow midfielder" pace but acceptable for a quality ruck. (His quickest time at '08 DC flatters him a bit). Pace off the mark is sometimes sluggish, sometimes quite good. Very mobile though.
- Seems to be a late physical developer. Has grown about 5cm between early '07 and late '08 and also doesn't have the degree of body hair of some peers. Officially only grown 1cm since early '08 (and measurement diffs of just 1cm are meaningless) but might even still have a fraction more growth left?
- Fairly good at keeping his feet.
- Good reflexes.
- Defensive agility isn't always flash but is passable.
*INTENSITY, ETHIC:
- His intensity isn't uniform but it's generally pretty good. It let him down somewhat in '07 and his coach urged him in at least a couple of games to push back harder and show more intensity. He's still not quite there but has shown significant improvement this year.
Has most of the 1%ers covered. Chases (which some rucks don't). Attacks the spoil. Generally an effective tackler..
- Gets his own ball inside traffic.
- Very coachable. Intelligent kid. Asks questions. Keen to learn.. Team man.
*CONSISTENCY:
- Quite consistent, both game by game and within a game and in effort as well as output.
*AFL VERSATILITY:
- Specialist ruck but as a ruck resting productively in FP, not someone who has to be benched when resting.
*CSI (COMPARATIVE SCOPE for IMPROVEMENT):
- Although 2 full TAC seasons, is ex-basketballer and a country kid so CSI is a bit above normal.
*SOME STATS:
- Stats summary '08 TAC:
Averaged 14 disposals in 15 local games. 0.7 contested marks. 2.5 tackles. Total goals 11-5 .
10 kicks per 20 disposals.
Ineffective kicks: 4.3 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 1.2 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.6 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 4.3 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 6.0 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 10.3 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.0 per 20 disp.
At least: 20 disposals in 1 games.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 25%. % change in KI/10K was + 44%. % change in Ineff/20D was + 30%. % change in contested marks was -68%. % change in handball receives was + 49%. % change in tackles was + 68%.
- Stats summary '07 TAC:
Averaged 9 disposals in 18 TAC games. 0.4 contested marks. 1.7 tackles. Total goals 8-2 .
9 kicks per 20 disposals (ranking No.22 for lowest in comp).
Ineffective kicks: 2.7 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 2.6 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.3 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 4.1 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 4.1 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 8.2 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.0 per 20 disp.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 29%. % change in KI/10K was -20%. % change in Ineff/20D was -39%. % change in contested marks was + 67%. % change in handball receives was + 68%. % change in tackles was + 51%.
- Stats summary '08 U18 Champs:
Averaged 7 disposals and 3.0 marks in his 5 games. (Best TD 8). (Tot TOG 0%).
Averaged 8 kicks per 20 disposals.
Kicks long vs short: 2-4 (3 long per 10 kicks).
Ineffective kicks: 8/14 (5.7 per 10 kicks), incl 1 clangers (0.7 per 10 kicks).
Ineff handballs: 2/22 (0.9 per 10 handballs), incl 0 clangers (0.0/10 hb).
Ineffective disposals: 10/36 (5.6 per 20 disp), incl 1 clangers (0.6 per 20 disp).
HandBall Receives: 7/36 (3.9 per 20 disp). Uncontested marks: 11/36 (6.1 per 20 disp). HR+UM: 18/36 (10.0 per 20 disp).
Contested marks: 4 (2.2 per 20 disp).
Hardball gets: 3/36 (1.7 per 20 disp).
SP Clears: 5/36 (2.8 per 20 disp), incl 2 CBC (1.1/20 disp) and 1 other BU (0.6/20 disp).
Tackles: 7 (Avg 1.4 per game).
HO: (Tot - cb - oth b/u - t/i): 72-33-15-24, comprising 16-9-5-2 (vs VM) 12-5-4-3 (vs NSW) 14-4-0-10 (vs WA) 14-5-3-6 (vs SA) 16-10-3-3 (vs TAS)
*OTHER STUFF:
- Jarryd's cousin.
- Ex-basketballer.
Here's a draft profile of him from Colin Wiseby. For those who haven't heard of Wiseby, I've found his draft profiles to be the most accurate of anyone's that I've seen. He was employed as a recruiter after 2008, so he knows his stuff.
Jordan Roughead (North Ballarat Rebels)
200/92 mid-age right foot (has other foot if necessary) ruck
*STYLE LIKE: Charman
*MY RANKING (not meant to reflect appropriate draft pick to use): 13
*PROBABILITY OF AFL CAREER: Definite. Ready year 2.
- Within an AFL team list, could prove capable of SUSTAINING a ranking of 3-5.
*HURT FACTORS (Offensive/Defensive/Negative): M / LM / M
*TRADEMARK:
- Centre-bounce palm-out down the throat of a team-mate in a position to effect a clean disposal.
*MAIN SELLING POINTS:
- Ruck smarts, skills.
- Vision
- Leap
- Ethic
- Improvement trend / Scope for further improvement
- Decision-making / smarts
*MAIN QUERY:
- Kicking reliability (not a huge issue though).
*SUMMARY ASSESSMENT, RECOMMENDATION:
- 200cm ruck who only committed to footy fairly recently. An ex basketballer who actually plays an inside game yet brings to the table some useful basketball attributes and smarts. The most impressive ruck skills of any underage ruck in this draft.
- Quite good ethic, can take a grab, smart and usually makes right decisions, mobile (although lacks a little pace), quite good endurance.
- I don't get excited about Jim Stynes-type ruckwork (i.e. statistically win the hit-out but the ball drops at the ruckman's feet, to no-one's advantage). Roughead though is "definite AFL" purely for his frequency of silver service to his mids, at centre bounces especially, regardless of whatever else he brings to the table.
- If my club's main intention was to draft a ruck primarily for ability to do frequent hitouts to genuine advantage, Roughead would be my clear choice ... in a heartbeat. And that's despite my very high regard for 3 other rucks in this draft. And, given that hypothetical drafting priority, I'd use whatever pick was believed necessary to ensure I got my man.
- An encouraging bonus with Roughead is his improvement around the ground. His improvement trend in that aspect is very solid. Averaged only 9d in '07 but improved to 14d in '08. In his last 8 TAC games, he averaged 16d and his quietest game in terms of possessions was 13 (he also had 24d in one of those games). In his previous 16 TAC games, he only got *more* than 13d 4 times. 66% improvement on last year's average and 25% up on his average in the first 1/2 of '08. He's unlikely to have the elite follower ability of Cox but, given time, he will be a more than handy possession-gathering AFL ruck around the ground, perhaps regularly 15-20d a game.
Vickery is the Vic ruck we often associate with mobility and around the ground stuff but Roughead is not all that far behind. Vickery averaged 17d at TAC level and 11d in '08 Champs and Roughead 14d and 7d. In the 2nd half of both their '08 seasons, Vickery averaged a Cox-like 21d, Roughead 16d.
Roughead is no Paul Salmon but he's no duffer around goals either. He is not an "in the ruck or on the bench" type. He is quite capable of a good grab up forward (or a gather and snap). Kicked 11-5 in '08 following 8-2 in '07 and he continues to improve in that area.
RUCKWORK:
- Displays the most intelligent, skilled, mature, effective ruckwork I've seen in an U18 ruck for some time. He doesn't just ruck to a predictable formula as many rucks do. e.g. He varies his positioning and approach at centre bounces. (e.g. Sometimes cleverly pre-positions himself at CB just marginally his side of the line then immediately moves over the line as ball is bounced, allowing him to take "front posn" coming from side - sometimes from the left, sometimes from the right). His ability to tactically think through ruck contest gives him a major advantage over many opponents. A bigger bag of tricks and tactical smarts also means that if an opponent seems to have his measure with one approach, Roughead can seamlessly switch tactics without having to compromise his own capability. At the very least, he keeps the other ruck guessing.
- A ruck's tap-outs with hurt factor to a targeted team-mate are most potent at CB's and that's Roughhead's biggest differential strength compared to other rucks in this draft but he is also very efficient at non-CB ruck contests.
- Excellent awareness of where his teammates are.
- Very big leap and times it extremely well.
- His own clearance work is fairly good and he is now a ruck who sees his job at ruck contests as not over until the ball is cleared from the area. I really value that.
- Usually holds his ground but occasionally fails to (and the times I've noticed it fail, it's surprisingly usually been against a short, lighter ruck, not a giant).
- Most of his ruckwork against VM was against McKernan who he beat comfortably but he did also beat Vickery in their limited time in ruck together. On other occasions when they've met, Roughead has had the better of Vickery at CB and they've roughly broken at non-CB. Beat Naitanui "on points" in their contests and beat Redden also (Redden did some nice work himself but Roughead definitely won on the day).
*DISPOSAL:
- Kicking accuracy let him down a bit this year but he does some good kicks. He's certainly not an unco ruck who *has* to do 1m feeds instead of kicking.
- Very reliable by hand. In fairness, many of his feeds are little give-offs typical of a ruck, so I'm not suggesting he's the next Polly Farmer, but some do have good hurt factor and he does display quick hands.
*DECISION-MAKING, SMARTS:
- Decision-making / smarts, especially vision, are a major strength and perhaps his basketball background comes to the fore here. He thinks through situations very well, he almost routinely looks for options (and usually makes the right choice) and he often shows excellent vision. He does some really clever things and displays quick thinking.
*HANDS:
- Regularly clean. Not just ground balls but his aerial ball control is also very good, even under great pressure.
Ball control (as distinct from ground ball cleanness) is a fairly handy ability in a mid around the ground but inside stoppages is more than handy - it's a really productive attribute to have, given how often the ball is up in the air either from a ruckman's hit-out or from popping up from the hands of whoever gathers the spills. It's something I value in an inside mid but, in a ruckman, it's a gem. Roughead's very adept in this area.
*OVERHEAD MARKING:
- Not yet a feature but he sometimes takes a very good contested grab, either front or behind and usually under great pressure. Took a screamer mid-pack under great pressure against Eastern Ranges in R13 last year - hung in the air.
Usually judges well, attacks his marks. Hands usually good, even under the greatest of pressure..
*ATHLETICISM:
- His DC results were OK but he looked tired by the end of his '08 season so I wouldn't read anything negative into his "fair"endurance results. eg His DC beep was an "OK" 12-07 but he did almost a level better (13-03) at TAC pre-season testing. By comparison, Vickery constantly records beeps in the 11's and Naitanui's beeps have typically been in the 12's. Similarly, Roughead's normal on-field endurance is much better than his DC 3km of 12.23min might suggest.
- Very big leap.
- Pace is "slow midfielder" pace but acceptable for a quality ruck. (His quickest time at '08 DC flatters him a bit). Pace off the mark is sometimes sluggish, sometimes quite good. Very mobile though.
- Seems to be a late physical developer. Has grown about 5cm between early '07 and late '08 and also doesn't have the degree of body hair of some peers. Officially only grown 1cm since early '08 (and measurement diffs of just 1cm are meaningless) but might even still have a fraction more growth left?
- Fairly good at keeping his feet.
- Good reflexes.
- Defensive agility isn't always flash but is passable.
*INTENSITY, ETHIC:
- His intensity isn't uniform but it's generally pretty good. It let him down somewhat in '07 and his coach urged him in at least a couple of games to push back harder and show more intensity. He's still not quite there but has shown significant improvement this year.
Has most of the 1%ers covered. Chases (which some rucks don't). Attacks the spoil. Generally an effective tackler..
- Gets his own ball inside traffic.
- Very coachable. Intelligent kid. Asks questions. Keen to learn.. Team man.
*CONSISTENCY:
- Quite consistent, both game by game and within a game and in effort as well as output.
*AFL VERSATILITY:
- Specialist ruck but as a ruck resting productively in FP, not someone who has to be benched when resting.
*CSI (COMPARATIVE SCOPE for IMPROVEMENT):
- Although 2 full TAC seasons, is ex-basketballer and a country kid so CSI is a bit above normal.
*SOME STATS:
- Stats summary '08 TAC:
Averaged 14 disposals in 15 local games. 0.7 contested marks. 2.5 tackles. Total goals 11-5 .
10 kicks per 20 disposals.
Ineffective kicks: 4.3 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 1.2 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.6 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 4.3 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 6.0 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 10.3 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.0 per 20 disp.
At least: 20 disposals in 1 games.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 25%. % change in KI/10K was + 44%. % change in Ineff/20D was + 30%. % change in contested marks was -68%. % change in handball receives was + 49%. % change in tackles was + 68%.
- Stats summary '07 TAC:
Averaged 9 disposals in 18 TAC games. 0.4 contested marks. 1.7 tackles. Total goals 8-2 .
9 kicks per 20 disposals (ranking No.22 for lowest in comp).
Ineffective kicks: 2.7 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 2.6 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.3 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 4.1 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 4.1 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 8.2 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.0 per 20 disp.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 29%. % change in KI/10K was -20%. % change in Ineff/20D was -39%. % change in contested marks was + 67%. % change in handball receives was + 68%. % change in tackles was + 51%.
- Stats summary '08 U18 Champs:
Averaged 7 disposals and 3.0 marks in his 5 games. (Best TD 8). (Tot TOG 0%).
Averaged 8 kicks per 20 disposals.
Kicks long vs short: 2-4 (3 long per 10 kicks).
Ineffective kicks: 8/14 (5.7 per 10 kicks), incl 1 clangers (0.7 per 10 kicks).
Ineff handballs: 2/22 (0.9 per 10 handballs), incl 0 clangers (0.0/10 hb).
Ineffective disposals: 10/36 (5.6 per 20 disp), incl 1 clangers (0.6 per 20 disp).
HandBall Receives: 7/36 (3.9 per 20 disp). Uncontested marks: 11/36 (6.1 per 20 disp). HR+UM: 18/36 (10.0 per 20 disp).
Contested marks: 4 (2.2 per 20 disp).
Hardball gets: 3/36 (1.7 per 20 disp).
SP Clears: 5/36 (2.8 per 20 disp), incl 2 CBC (1.1/20 disp) and 1 other BU (0.6/20 disp).
Tackles: 7 (Avg 1.4 per game).
HO: (Tot - cb - oth b/u - t/i): 72-33-15-24, comprising 16-9-5-2 (vs VM) 12-5-4-3 (vs NSW) 14-4-0-10 (vs WA) 14-5-3-6 (vs SA) 16-10-3-3 (vs TAS)
*OTHER STUFF:
- Jarryd's cousin.
- Ex-basketballer.
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Can we just go after Daniel Talia?
Please?
Please?
He wants to play CHB so you'd have to give him that perogative. I think over time he would learn to be a swing man anyway. Running all of Carlisle, Grant, a resting Bontempelli, Roughy and Stringer through CHF is beautiful to me with all of them playing other positions as their primary. If Carlisle is available and interested he is a no-brainer on our list. Love him.
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my god you just don't understand that stats against Melbourne don't mean much merit
It's like when Butcher kicked 6 goals against us and been shit everysince
He's 177cm and can really only run
JJ, Dale, Darley, Biggs would all be ahead of him
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Yes i would, because Melbourne defense line up is sub par
It's the Kennedy example, He plays great against bad defenders and kick 8 goals but against top defenders kicks avg 1.2 goals
One game doesn't make a kid
I think he is.
he is a number 1 ruckman first, defender second. That is his pedigree.
Now he has hardly rucked at all these past few seasons but you watch the Swans game and he makes some telling ruck contributions when Cordy was getting smashed by Pyke. The last centre bounce after the Wood goal being a classic example. This was the most crucial ruck contest of the match in those last few minutes. He decisively beat Pyke at the centre bounce and got it to Jong to Stringer for a shot at goal. This is critical big match play and only a genuine ruckman can win those kinds of tap outs.
At under age level I saw him smash Natanui. While Nat was jumping all over the place looking spectacular and getting 1 hit out from about 5 contests, Roughie was just knocking em down to his rovers one after the other. not as spectacular but more effective.
Don't rate tapwork all that much.
We weren't Hawthorn.
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