Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Smiley Boy]

I honestly couldn’t think of a bigger waste of a list space than recruiting Mason Cox.

One trick pony forward who lucked out a few times, not a ruck and the biggest liability in the comp when the ball hits the ground.

Not only would Bevo not pick him, but our coach may well have a heart attack if someone so one dimensional found their way onto the list.

Do not want.

You do realise Will Hayes is still on our list?

 

[Dogs54]

I honestly couldn’t think of a bigger waste of a list space than recruiting Mason Cox.

One trick pony forward who lucked out a few times, not a ruck and the biggest liability in the comp when the ball hits the ground.

Not only would Bevo not pick him, but our coach may well have a heart attack if someone so one dimensional found their way onto the list.

Do not want.

Not disputing your opinion but sometimes when a player takes on greater responsibility they improve significantly, not saying Cox will but many scoffed at Witts when he was at Collingwood and now has flourished as number 1 ruck at GC. Its a gamble and but is it worth taking.

 

[BRWB]

I understand Hickey's circumstances, I just thought it was a bit disingenuous to use Cox's worst ever stats in 2021 to dismiss him, when then same exercise could easily be done with Hickey's 2020 season.

Cox sitting behind one of the top 3 rucks in the comp for years is also something to take into consideration, as is him being predominantly played forward. Yes, this means we would be taking quite the leap of faith, but some of us see a high potential first ruck - given he's available, ready to go & low cost, and the risk/reward ratio, we see him as worth targeting and worth a list spot.

I liken him to Spider Burton - some may not remember him, but he was a gangly 210cm dude who went from a fringe player many would laugh at who was delisted by Freo, to one of the top few rucks in the comp for a few years (after turning 30).

But if you want to dismiss anyone who believes Cox could be of value as deserving of an uppercut, go for it.


Hindsight is great.

"well actually, Hinkley's a really solid second tier ruckman - everyone knew that, and 4 clubs knew that" is very easy to say now, but doesn't explain not many clubs pursuing him last off-season, and everyone on here ridiculing the idea of recruiting him at almost every opportunity of getting him across the last few years.

As examples, when we were looking at recruiting him a few years ago (another recruiting play for a ruckman to add the BeVo HaTeS rUcKmEn! files), these were some of the replies:

View attachment 1216826View attachment 1216827View attachment 1216829
View attachment 1216948

(above aren't intended as a gotcha moment on any of the posters - I've made dozens of worse calls over the years, but just an example of how hindsight is 20-20).


I've got no issue with anyone being against recruiting him or assuming he'll be a failure, but if those who've ridiculed those who've put someone like Cox forward, what are your calls for who we should target?

Very easy to take pot shots, but takes a bit of courage to say "this is our guy" when all available options are "not quite rights" in their own way, and when many of them will (outside of injury) turn out to be failures (overrated, last legs, cooked in 6 months etc).

Of those who are obtainable, within our salary and trade budget, and would be willing to come, who's our boy?

Pies are rebuilding and apparently are happy to clear cap.

Brody Grundy

Go big. Our time is now.

Wonder if the Pies would consider it if the offer was juicy enough?

 

[doggy_dog]

Pies are rebuilding and apparently are happy to clear cap.

Brody Grundy

Go big. Our time is now.

Wonder if the Pies would consider it if the offer was juicy enough?

Pie in the sky stuff but if we could somehow wangle them paying half his salary he’d be perfect. Can you imagine the fallout from that!

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

AFL site mentions Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

as potentially being gettable. I'd be very interested in him as a defender if true.

 

[Lex22]

Not disputing your opinion but sometimes when a player takes on greater responsibility they improve significantly, not saying Cox will but many scoffed at Witts when he was at Collingwood and now has flourished as number 1 ruck at GC. Its a gamble and but is it worth taking.

Why is it a gamble worth taking? He has no upside.

We can’t find a better ruck?

 

[Chops]

I understand Hickey's circumstances, I just thought it was a bit disingenuous to use Cox's worst ever stats in 2021 to dismiss him, when then same exercise could easily be done with Hickey's 2020 season.

Cox sitting behind one of the top 3 rucks in the comp for years is also something to take into consideration, as is him being predominantly played forward. Yes, this means we would be taking quite the leap of faith, but some of us see a high potential first ruck - given he's available, ready to go & low cost, and the risk/reward ratio, we see him as worth targeting and worth a list spot.

I liken him to Spider Burton - some may not remember him, but he was a gangly 210cm dude who went from a fringe player many would laugh at who was delisted by Freo, to one of the top few rucks in the comp for a few years (after turning 30).

But if you want to dismiss anyone who believes Cox could be of value as deserving of an uppercut, go for it.


Hindsight is great.

"well actually, Hinkley's a really solid second tier ruckman - everyone knew that, and 4 clubs knew that" is very easy to say now, but doesn't explain not many clubs pursuing him last off-season, and everyone on here ridiculing the idea of recruiting him at almost every opportunity of getting him across the last few years.

As examples, when we were looking at recruiting him a few years ago (another recruiting play for a ruckman to add the BeVo HaTeS rUcKmEn! files), these were some of the replies:

View attachment 1216826View attachment 1216827View attachment 1216829
View attachment 1216948

(above aren't intended as a gotcha moment on any of the posters - I've made dozens of worse calls over the years, but just an example of how hindsight is 20-20).


I've got no issue with anyone being against recruiting him or assuming he'll be a failure, but if those who've ridiculed those who've put someone like Cox forward, what are your calls for who we should target?

Very easy to take pot shots, but takes a bit of courage to say "this is our guy" when all available options are "not quite rights" in their own way, and when many of them will (outside of injury) turn out to be failures (overrated, last legs, cooked in 6 months etc).

Of those who are obtainable, within our salary and trade budget, and would be willing to come, who's our boy?

I admit I was wrong on Hickey. Cox would be our best ruckman, but there is no field. If he comes cheap, I don’t see why not. I’d also get another ruckman but I doubt Bevo wants that.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Lex22]

You do realise Will Hayes is still on our list?

Yep…..I really don’t want Mason Cox.

 

[TBOW]

Pittonet, Archie Smith, Sam Hayes, Fort, Stanley, Bailey Williams.
Of all those mentioned Ceglar sounds doable if he doesn’t retire, Lynch I like but sounds Hawks bound, Hayes if we’re looking for a more traditional tap ruckman but he’s contracted.

I think Archie Smith took the year off with mental health issues, otherwise I think he could have been a good option.
Who knows, maybe he is keen to get back into it and is looking for a fresh start working with a senior ruck he already knows? Seems a long shot though.

 

[Northernsoul74]

I think Archie Smith took the year off with mental health issues, otherwise I think he could have been a good option.
Who knows, maybe he is keen to get back into it and is looking for a fresh start working with a senior ruck he already knows? Seems a long shot though.

Yes his brother took his own life.

 

[TedDougChris]

Pies are rebuilding and apparently are happy to clear cap.

Brody Grundy

Go big. Our time is now.

Wonder if the Pies would consider it if the offer was juicy enough?

I have a few question marks over Grundy's effectiveness as a tap ruckman. He seems to prefer the "tap it one inch away from his feet" method as his default option. But he's clearly what we would want around the ground...

We really needed Ned Guy still in charge, wait for Pies to trade Lynch and delist Cox, then go hard for Grundy - leaving them no ruckmen at all...

 

[BRWB]

I have a few question marks over Grundy's effectiveness as a tap ruckman. He seems to prefer the "tap it one inch away from his feet" method as his default option. But he's clearly what we would want around the ground...

We really needed Ned Guy still in charge, wait for Pies to trade Lynch and delist Cox, then go hard for Grundy - leaving them no ruckmen at all...

Look it's pie in sky but Grundy would fit Bev's preferred ruckman. Doesn't get smashed in hit outs won't allow rucks to bulldoze clear it like soft bodies like English, Mids or Young do and has an around the ground presence.

I'd go really hard at him.

 

[Al dente]

Whilst I do agree we need a mature ruck given Stef's fitness, people are doing some incredible revisionism with saying "oh we knew all year, it's so obvious, fixing our ruck!!!!"

We went and got Stef and maybe were hopeful his body would hold up.

And a month ago when English was battling Gawn to a win, getting 22 touches and beating the Hickey H2H everyone's raving about here, and going up against Darcy, Goldstein and Naitanui and competing well enough to help us to wins in all games, that nobody was criticising the ruck. English could still very well be a good ruck long-term, and he's probably just exhausted himself in a season where he might otherwise had a week off and a concussion has played a big influence in his physical conditioning. Nobody was saying the ruck was an issue a month ago.

His big problems as a ruck are;

1. cant win enough taps
2. when he is bad he is really really bad and not competitive

these 2 points havent improved much in 5 years, hence many, including it seems Bevo, have given up hope

 

[Mofra]

I think Archie Smith took the year off with mental health issues, otherwise I think he could have been a good option.
Who knows, maybe he is keen to get back into it and is looking for a fresh start working with a senior ruck he already knows? Seems a long shot though.

He's a FA so if that long shot is correct he'd at least be free.

 

[TBOW]

AFL site mentions Josh Battle as potentially being gettable. I'd be very interested in him as a defender if true.

Do you see him replacing Cordy as 3rd tall alongside Gardiner and Keith? Or do you think he can play taller than his height?
I must admit I haven't seen much of him down back, although I do seem to recall thinking he looked pretty solid a couple of years back.

 

[Mofra]

Do you see him replacing Cordy as 3rd tall alongside Gardiner and Keith? Or do you think he can play taller than his height?
I must admit I haven't seen much of him down back, although I do seem to recall thinking he looked pretty solid a couple of years back.

I see him more as that third, a tallish defender a la Burton.
Good player but I'd target a genuine KPD as a priority (behind a ruck of course)

 

[Optimistic Dog]

It has become evident the more this season has gone on, that our ruck situation is as dire as it has ever been. Blind Freddy can see it. Bev can see it and has acknowledged the situation. At least last season we had the optimism that Tim English may continue his development and start winning hitouts. It is now clear that this will never happen. He is not a 1st ruck unfortunately, but he is a 2nd ruck / forward and a good one at that.

Considering Martin's body deterioration and Sweet seemingly not in the frame to be able to play the way we want him to. Judging from the outside neither are likely to remain on the list long term. It is obvious that we're going to have to trade for a ruckman, to finally give first use to what I believe is the best dogs midfield I have ever seen.

The way we were able to structure up at the start of this season with a decent first ruck (in Stef) and Tim relief rucking was a thing of beauty. No wonder we were grinding teams into the ground with our midfield! We were able to dictate terms from the centre!

Here is a list of realistic targets in descending order according to AFL player ratings and a comment on the likelihood chance of joining the dogs for 2022 onwards: (I would love to think we had a shot at a Nic Nat or Sam Draper with the allure of a flag, but I highly doubt that will be the case as they are critical pieces for their respective clubs)

• Todd Goldstein - The one who I was really hoping for last year, 33 years old seems committed to finishing his career at north. Does his body last a season? Could we get him across? Will this be a Stef Martin situation? Not sure, but he is as elite ruck as you can get and if played for at least half the season and finals in good shape we would surely be thereabouts.
• Jonathon Ceglar - Turned 30 in Feb. 204cm and a good first ruck who wins hitouts and contributes modestly around the ground. Hasn't won a premiership, could he be lured across for a couple of year push at a chip? Highly regarded at Hawks but they have Ned Reeves (Justin Reeves son) and Ben McEvoy coming through. Downside is his injury history, doesn't seem to play more than 11-15 games a year, but if that's at the right time, that's all we need!
• Peter Ladhams - To be honest haven't watched much of his work but seems more like a second ruck / forward. Has below average hitout numbers currently, but maybe due to circumstance. Will be a tough one to lure away as SA boy playing for an SA club. I'd put this in the unlikely basket. But he is behind a dominant ruckman and could be interesting to look at.
• Matt Flynn - Seems to have been on GWS' list for ages and only really got a breakthrough this year due to injuries. With Preuss coming back and Briggs providing relief, could be one to to look at as he has a good hitout to advantage ratio (though a small sample size).
• Kieran Strachan - Good to look at young rucks stuck behind a dominant big man and this could definitely be the case with him.
• Sam Naismith - Could be good, has the height (205cm) and weight to be a real factor in the middle, but injuries have destroyed him unfortunately. If we were confident we can get his body right, would be a nice addition.
• Max Lynch - As with Strachan, will be stuck behind Grundy for a long time. *only* 200cm, but showed some nice signs in the middle of this year when he had a run. Could potentially be cheap. Seen people in here talking about him, is he ready to burden the load of a full year as first ruck? My guess is no, but could be a nice backup ruck to a Goldstein or Ceglar.

Feel free to leave a comment if you agree or disagree or think I have left a viable target off. Who do you think we need to add and how?

Agree but I would go all out for Nic Nat the WCE are in rebuild mode, to go from the worst tap ruck to the best would be huge. If Nic Nat played for us this season we finish top and probably win the flag.

 

[iambrilliant]

AFL site mentions Josh Battle as potentially being gettable. I'd be very interested in him as a defender if true.

That Would be awkward for Marra

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Do you see him replacing Cordy as 3rd tall alongside Gardiner and Keith? Or do you think he can play taller than his height?
I must admit I haven't seen much of him down back, although I do seem to recall thinking he looked pretty solid a couple of years back.

I think in our system he could certainly play as a 2kpd. He's not a perfect fit but I think he's an upgrade on Cordy, and at this stage you have to have doubts on Gardner's durability. I'd be exploring other options too, but I think he's a good player.

 

[josh the gent]

Whilst I do agree we need a mature ruck given Stef's fitness, people are doing some incredible revisionism with saying "oh we knew all year, it's so obvious, fixing our ruck!!!!"

We went and got Stef and maybe were hopeful his body would hold up.

And a month ago when English was battling Gawn to a win, getting 22 touches and beating the Hickey H2H everyone's raving about here, and going up against Darcy, Goldstein and Naitanui and competing well enough to help us to wins in all games, that nobody was criticising the ruck. English could still very well be a good ruck long-term, and he's probably just exhausted himself in a season where he might otherwise had a week off and a concussion has played a big influence in his physical conditioning. Nobody was saying the ruck was an issue a month ago.

Have you looked at the post-Sydney match comments?

 

[BallaratBulldog]

That Melbourne game had the advantage of being wet. Helped English. Same with Eagles NicNat.

 

[ossie_21]

Agree but I would go all out for Nic Nat the WCE are in rebuild mode, to go from the worst tap ruck to the best would be huge. If Nic Nat played for us this season we finish top and probably win the flag.

We should just about be flag favourites for next season if we can at least get a serviceable ruck and add KPD/KPF depth.

Give our first to Hawks for Ceglar & Gunston with some change back. Get Clurey & that weird surname bloke from the WAFL and we’ll be primed.

Even Eagles may want to mini rebuild, first for Nic Nat and something else back, but probably a pipe dream as he’s on over a million a year.

 

[TheBont]

Who can we get for a ruck this off season?

 

[Northernsoul74]

Who can we get for a ruck this off season?

I think every possible option has been discussed in this thread… and even the impossible, Nic Nat and Grundy .

 

[josh the gent]

I think every possible option has been discussed in this thread… and even the impossible, Nic Nat and Grundy .

Bring back Peter Street from retirement