Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[doggies ftw]

I know big bags of goals would be nice, but where Lobb is making the biggest difference for us is here:

Lobb v Darcy (6 contests)
Hitouts: 4 / 1
To Advantage: 1 / 0
Clearances: 4 / 1
Score: 2.1 (13) / 0.0 (0)

Lobb v Tracy (16 contests)
Hitouts: 8 / 6
To Advantage: 1 / 2
Clearances: 5 / 5
Score: 1.0 (6) / 0.0 (0)

We actually won the ruck and clearance contest comprehensively when our backup went against an elite opposition ruck. We just didn’t have that the last couple years.

As an example, in the final last year Sam Darcy was soundly (as you’d expect) beaten by Darcy & Lobb:

Darcy vs. Darcy (2 contests)
Hitouts: 0 / 2
To Advantage: 0 / 0
Clearances: 0 / 2
Score: 0.0 (0) / 0.0 (0)

Darcy vs. Lobb (8 contests)
Hitouts: 2 / 5
To Advantage: 0 / 1
Clearances: 2 / 4
Score: 0.0 (0) / 1.1 (7)

I suspect going back to look at the numbers from Cordy’s 8-week run as forward/ruck from last year, and the other stop gaps we used, would even more clearly illustrate how this move has closed a pretty glaring weakness.

*Cheers as always to Oliver Gigacz for the numbers.

Sean Darcy is a monster too, that’s super impressive from Lobb.

I think there’s no doubt he’s playing an important role, we’d all love him to be a bit tougher in the contest but that’s just not him. I think he’ll find his feet more and more forward of the ball as we develop.

My biggest question mark was the 4 year deal I’d think that would be an issue for us but the latest article is claiming 3 years at 500k - if that’s the case I’m more than happy with 3 years. Darcy will just not be consistent in that time, anyone who thinks a 210cm/80kg kid is going to be consistently playing AFL football at 20yo is kidding themselves.

We should absolutely be rotating them over the next two years to get games into Darcy and if he goes past him fantastic, but he is not going to really be ready to play 24 games a year, possibly for half a dozen years to be completely honest.

 

[TiAn_]

Sean Darcy is a monster too, that’s super impressive from Lobb.

I think there’s no doubt he’s playing an important role, we’d all love him to be a bit tougher in the contest but that’s just not him. I think he’ll find his feet more and more forward of the ball as we develop.

My biggest question mark was the 4 year deal I’d think that would be an issue for us but the latest article is claiming 3 years at 500k - if that’s the case I’m more than happy with 3 years. Darcy will just not be consistent in that time, anyone who thinks a 210cm/80kg kid is going to be consistently playing AFL football at 20yo is kidding themselves.

We should absolutely be rotating them over the next two years to get games into Darcy and if he goes past him fantastic, but he is not going to really be ready to play 24 games a year, possibly for half a dozen years to be completely honest.

Yeah I think realistically Darcy probably won’t be pushing Lobb for the backup ruck spot until the back half of next year. I think if he plays consistently before then it’ll be primarily as a forward or defender.

 

[Dogs5416]

Lobb also plays high game time so he also allows the coaches to use more rotations on the runners which helps them run out the game better. Khamis and Darcy don’t have the same level of endurance as Lobb


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Anja_Nees]

You'd hope with Lobb, we chased him based on more than one game against us.
But your honour, as a precedent, I present, Tim O'Brien....

Lucky Bevo (and Sam P!) weren't around when Majak Daw had a day out, or some random small forward peaking their career against us in years gone by.

The Lobb talk started well before that game so thankfully it wasn’t tgat, although I wonder if his effort in the ‘16 prelim stuck in Bevo’s mind.

 

[ScragCity]

You'd hope with Lobb, we chased him based on more than one game against us.
But your honour, as a precedent, I present, Tim O'Brien....

Lucky Bevo (and Sam P!) weren't around when Majak Daw had a day out, or some random small forward peaking their career against us in years gone by.

We're lucky Wright wasn't out of contract in '21.

 

[adogsfan5]

I know big bags of goals would be nice, but where Lobb is making the biggest difference for us is here:

Lobb v Darcy (6 contests)
Hitouts: 4 / 1
To Advantage: 1 / 0
Clearances: 4 / 1
Score: 2.1 (13) / 0.0 (0)

Lobb v Tracy (16 contests)
Hitouts: 8 / 6
To Advantage: 1 / 2
Clearances: 5 / 5
Score: 1.0 (6) / 0.0 (0)

We actually won the ruck and clearance contest comprehensively when our backup went against an elite opposition ruck. We just didn’t have that the last couple years.

As an example, in the final last year Sam Darcy was soundly (as you’d expect) beaten by Darcy & Lobb:

Darcy vs. Darcy (2 contests)
Hitouts: 0 / 2
To Advantage: 0 / 0
Clearances: 0 / 2
Score: 0.0 (0) / 0.0 (0)

Darcy vs. Lobb (8 contests)
Hitouts: 2 / 5
To Advantage: 0 / 1
Clearances: 2 / 4
Score: 0.0 (0) / 1.1 (7)

I suspect going back to look at the numbers from Cordy’s 8-week run as forward/ruck from last year, and the other stop gaps we used, would even more clearly illustrate how this move has closed a pretty glaring weakness.

*Cheers as always to Oliver Gigacz for the numbers.

I didn’t believe it for a second anyway but there’s not a chance in hell, players at the club are annoyed about Lobbs contract / output as rumoured earlier. If we didn’t have him, our second ruck option would still be an embarrassing issue for us. Our mids would be stoked.

 

[VitalDread]

Feel like giving up Lions first for Henry and pick swaps
Would be an ideal trade if we aren't moving up in the draft

 

[DueWest]

I don't think Bruce will want to be seen as a depth player i think he'll see the writings on the wall and request a trade to somewhere like Melbourne

There is that and the big pay cut he will need to take. He is in year 4 of a decent contract to get him over from saints and would be on minimum chips if he stayed on if we need to save for English, Smith and Naughton renewals

 

[TiAn_]

Maybe North can recruit him to help protect their percentage next year

 

[Mofra]

I think Bruce has something to offer next year as depth. It’s the mental side of the game that he needs to improve IMO.

We have very young and very old key position players. We need to be phasing them out and not cutting all at once.

I'd be ok if we kept one of Keath or Bruce for next season. We need support in the back half

 

[Golden_6]

I'd be ok if we kept one of Keath or Bruce for next season. We need support in the back half

I don't think Bruce has a spot on the list next season as backline depth. Keath is the one we should keep as a backup. If the club keeps Bruce on the minimum wage as pure forward line depth then I could get around it.

The experimental move was worth it but I never want to see Bruce in defence again. I'd much rather try a kid with potential rather than see a 32 year old who panics with the ball, can't kick and generally struggles under the pressure of the oppositions forwards.

 

[VitalDread]

I like Bruce but we should be entering the era of no wasted list spots

Dogs are in a win now era and having players on our list that can't fill holes when our best 22 are out are not needed imo

 

[Unorth]

If they want to keep Bruce around it should be as an assistant only. He’s cooked.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

I like Bruce but we should be entering the era of no wasted list spots

Dogs are in a win now era and having players on our list that can't fill holes when our best 22 are out are not needed imo

While I agree, there's quite a few I'd be dropping before Bruce. Having all of Raak, Khamis, Cleary, Bedendo not playing games (although Bedendo has been injured for most of the year) isn't great, even if they're all a few years into the "developing" stage. Preferably we'd drop Hannan and O'Brien and promote a couple of these guys to those "depth" roles, but I'd still be looking at trimming back how many medium sized "talls" we've got rotting in the VFL

 

[Golden_6]

While I agree, there's quite a few I'd be dropping before Bruce. Having all of Raak, Khamis, Cleary, Bedendo not playing games (although Bedendo has been injured for most of the year) isn't great, even if they're all a few years into the "developing" stage. Preferably we'd drop Hannan and O'Brien and promote a couple of these guys to those "depth" roles, but I'd still be looking at trimming back how many medium sized "talls" we've got rotting in the VFL

To me Bruce is okay on the list for one more year because a key depth tall is considerably more value than other types of depth. Those guys you listed are also fine to be developing at the back of the list because there is still potential to develop into AFL level players.

The ones that should be moved on are the considerable mature options we have that clearly aren't best 22 or hanging around the fringes. McComb, Crozier, McLean, Hannan, O'Brien are all easy pickings to delist and we wouldn't miss any in the slightest next season.

 

[El Rancho]

Thankfully firefox has a great little addon that bypasses paywalls, like I'd ever give the media my money.

What is the addon?

 

[BulldogMuscle]

What is the addon?

Bypass Paywalls Clean

 

[El Rancho]

Bypass Paywalls Clean

Cheers

 

[El Rancho]

Cheers

Bypass Paywalls Clean has been removed by firefox m@therfeckers

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Bypass Paywalls Clean has been removed by firefox m@therfeckers

It's on Github

 

[goodcop badcop]

I still don't think it was a smart trade to put Lobb on the list for what we had to give up and along with that it's cancelled out Bruce in the process. Lobb offers a lot more in the ruck, but a fit Bruce is a better forward and better defensively IMO. Has this trade really added that much to the side? I don't think it has, that's my problem with it.

 

[Foxman98]

I still don't think it was a smart trade to put Lobb on the list for what we had to give up and along with that it's cancelled out Bruce in the process. Lobb offers a lot more in the ruck, but a fit Bruce is a better forward and better defensively IMO. Has this trade really added that much to the side? I don't think it has, that's my problem with it.

English and Jamarra have improved out of sight for a reason,

Your "if" is a big "IF"

 

[goodcop badcop]

English and Jamarra have improved out of sight for a reason,

Your "if" is a big "IF"

There's maybe an if there, certainly isn't a big one.

English was already heading into AA territory last year before the bad concussion and sickness stuffed his year. He had a bad concussion the year before that also. Lobb has probably helped, but he's had a far more consistent run at it now which was the main thing holding him back. He's also credited Lade for some of his improvement.

Jamarra has got himself much fitter this year and is working a lot harder. He was always going to improve with or without Lobb. Also a fit Bruce is a completely different player and Jamarra praised him in interviews last year saying something along the lines of it made him a better player with him being in the side.

 

[Testekill]

I still don't think it was a smart trade to put Lobb on the list for what we had to give up and along with that it's cancelled out Bruce in the process. Lobb offers a lot more in the ruck, but a fit Bruce is a better forward and better defensively IMO. Has this trade really added that much to the side? I don't think it has, that's my problem with it.

As a counterpoint though, Lobb has allowed us to remain competitive in the ruck when English goes off whereas we'd suddenly bleed goals when he went out last year and we had to have players like Cordy or Schache get involved and I don't think that a fit Bruce would be able to be competitive. A competent second ruck who can play in a different position is an extremely valuable proposition.

 

[goodcop badcop]

As a counterpoint though, Lobb has allowed us to remain competitive in the ruck when English goes off whereas we'd suddenly bleed goals when he went out last year and we had to have players like Cordy or Schache get involved and I don't think that a fit Bruce would be able to be competitive. A competent second ruck who can play in a different position is an extremely valuable proposition.

Which is a fair enough point. I'm sure it's made a difference having Lobb, but not completely convinced it's made a big difference. Could we get a stats breakdown for last years 2nd ruck compared to this years? Scores for and scores against? Lobb's been mostly decent, but feel like he's struggled in some games.