Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dogs 13]

You don't use to Ferrari to plow a field.

Naughton had to be managed through this year due to his knee. I don't want him rucking at all. Darcy can do the job in a couple of years but needs time.

I'm worried about this

Looks like it’s up to Bont to do everything

 

[Optimistic Dog]

I'm driving Bailey to glenferrie oval

If Baz returns to finals 2021 form next season would you want to off load him that quickly.

 

[LondonBulldog]

Becoming a complete basket case isn't the answer either

No but both clubs and players are become more open and mature to those discussions.

For Example hypothetical : say English states, I love the club but the long term plan is to finish the career in West Australia. You would have to jump on that and try and make it happen this year for Harley Reid.

Not saying I want English to go, yet discussions are becoming a lot more open than when it was all behind doors like Dangerfield leaving Adelaide, already building a house in Moggs Creek and speaking with my Accountant mate, 1 and half year in advance about the move to Geelong yet trying to hide it.

 

[Mojorisin]

Becoming a complete basket case isn't the answer either

I'd rather be a basket case now then tread water and get shafted for them once they're out of contract. Ideally in that scenario they sign on this year and we don't have to constantly hear about it next year.

 

[DogDays]

I hate how mercenary the AFL has become. Players and clubs have no loyalty to each other but fans are left trying to be loyal. It’s diminishing my enjoyment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[doggies ftw]

Stop perpetrating this myth.

He signed a 3 year deal @ 500k p.a. This came at the cost of a pair of 2nd round magic beans.


See above.

See above.

The catastrophizing over every rumour and tidbit relating to the club in here is an embarrassment.

This place has finally flipped over the edge and gone full ******.

​

In what way is 2x mid-2nd rounders nothing? You’re quite vocal in the fact that our depth is shit, do you not realise that 2nd rounders are a crucial part of a list build and we’ve basically had none for several years

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I'd rather be a basket case now then tread water and get shafted for them once they're out of contract. Ideally in that scenario they sign on this year and we don't have to constantly hear about it next year.

Get used to hearing all about it for the next 6 months. Unless they sucker us into a 7+ year contract then they have absolutely no incentive to do anything beyond what they're currently doing. Idling around waiting for us to jump on the bait that they're dangling in front of Sam Power during their regular status catch ups.

They go something like this.

McDougall: "Seven+ years mate..."

Power: "That seems like a lot. I'll have to wake the board."

McDougall: "We have a lot of interest..."

Power: "you're going to squeeze every drop of juice out of this orange aren't you?"

McDougall: "Yes. Yes I am."

Power: "same time next week?"

McDougall: "ok"


This is why McDougall played such a straight bat when he said that Naughton was committed top the dogs for the 2024 season. But gave nothing away beyond that.

Gun players hold all of the cards and circumstances have it that we have 3.5 of them currently sitting in the same boat.

 

[Libbaaaa]

If Baz returns to finals 2021 form next season would you want to off load him that quickly.

I've said it before but his form in those finals was a complete outlier. He has kicked 44 goals in 108 games, 7 of them came in two of those finals. He can still be very good but he will not be that type of player.

Get used to hearing all about it for the next 6 months. Unless they sucker us into a 7+ year contract then they have absolutely no incentive to do anything beyond what they're currently doing. Idling around waiting for us to jump on the bait that they're dangling in front of Sam Power during their regular status catch ups.

They go something like this.

McDougall: "Seven+ years mate..."

Power: "That seems like a lot. I'll have to wake the board."

McDougall: "We have a lot of interest..."

Power: "you're going to squeeze every drop of juice out of this orange aren't you?"

McDougall: "Yes. Yes I am."

Power: "same time next week?"

McDougall: "ok"


This is why McDougall played such a straight bat when he said that Naughton was committed top the dogs for the 2024 season. But gave nothing away beyond that.

Gun players hold all of the cards and circumstances have it that we have 3.5 of them currently sitting in the same boat.

100% and I don't blame them, players need to maximise their earnings while they can. What the club and Power will know is whether Tim/Naughton/Baz are just squeezing us for years/$$$ or whether they are actually non-committal and have a foot out the door. If its the latter they must be traded, cannot afford another Dunkley situation. Josh played great in 2022 but he also played us like a fiddle, knew he was going but needed solid form after a disappointing (due to injury) 2021.

 

[Mojorisin]

Get used to hearing all about it for the next 6 months. Unless they sucker us into a 7+ year contract then they have absolutely no incentive to do anything beyond what they're currently doing. Idling around waiting for us to jump on the bait that they're dangling in front of Sam Power during their regular status catch ups.

They go something like this.

McDougall: "Seven+ years mate..."

Power: "That seems like a lot. I'll have to wake the board."

McDougall: "We have a lot of interest..."

Power: "you're going to squeeze every drop of juice out of this orange aren't you?"

McDougall: "Yes. Yes I am."

Power: "same time next week?"

McDougall: "ok"


This is why McDougall played such a straight bat when he said that Naughton was committed top the dogs for the 2024 season. But gave nothing away beyond that.

Gun players hold all of the cards and circumstances have it that we have 3.5 of them currently sitting in the same boat.

That's exactly how it will play out. I'd rather be ruthless though.
I'd offer Naughton a 5 year deal with a trigger for 2 more at a Mill a year.
English a 3 + 1 year deal at 800k
Smith a 3 year deal with a trigger for 2 more at 700k plus incentives on games played, B&F top 3s and good behaviour that can take him to 900k a year

The only players I'd give a 7 year deal to would be Bont level guys.

 

[Foxman98]

In what way is 2x mid-2nd rounders nothing? You’re quite vocal in the fact that our depth is s**t, do you not realise that 2nd rounders are a crucial part of a list build and we’ve basically had none for several years

Because nothing we missed out on would've had any impact last year nor looks even remotely like a quality pick up

 

[yebach]

Lobb whilst frustrating isn’t a huge loss

Wow! You argued with me for post after post telling me how great he was and now your attitude has done a complete 180.
Not sure I can take you seriously.

 

[Mojorisin]

Because nothing we missed out on would've had any impact last year nor looks even remotely like a quality pick up

Hustwaite or Hotton would've gotten games this year and both look to have good careers ahead just to name two.

 

[Foxman98]

That's exactly how it will play out. I'd rather be ruthless though.
I'd offer Naughton a 5 year deal with a trigger for 2 more at a Mill a year.
English a 3 + 1 year deal at 800k
Smith a 3 year deal with a trigger for 2 more at 700k plus incentives on games played, B&F top 3s and good behaviour that can take him to 900k a year

The only players I'd give a 7 year deal to would be Bont level guys.

Smith isn't a 700k a year player though on output which is what worries me with a deal for him

 

[Norm De Guerre]

In what way is 2x mid-2nd rounders nothing? You’re quite vocal in the fact that our depth is s**t, do you not realise that 2nd rounders are a crucial part of a list build and we’ve basically had none for several years

You do understand that all of the 2nd rounders that we've used in recent years have gone a long way towards bringing in generation talent over the last 3 years. As much as we'd like to, we cannot have it all.

That we used 2 on Lobb to fill the gaping hole of ruck relief for English on our list. One that pre-dates my more recent concerns about the quality of our depth by multiple of years was in my view not a high price to pay. He may or may not end up elsewhere next year, but that is neither here nor there as at the time it was the correct trade to make and shaped as the final piece of a puzzle. And no amount of revisionism is going to change that fact.

 

[Foxman98]

Wow! You argued with me for post after post telling me how great he was and now your attitude has done a complete 180.
Not sure I can take you seriously.

How have I done a 180? He played his role fine but given how the better teams play his role isn't as necessary

 

[Foxman98]

Hustwaite or Hotton would've gotten games this year and both look to have good careers ahead just to name two.

Hurstwaite played 2 games for bottom 3 Hawthorn Oli Hotton didn't play a single game for the saints despite them continuing to blood youth who were either of them getting a gsame over when Gallagher, Cleary and Clarke couldn't get a game despite the first 2 in particular having fantastic seasons in the VFL

 

[doggies ftw]

You do understand that all of the 2nd rounders that we've used in recent years have gone a long way towards bringing in generation talent over the last 3 years. As much as we'd like to, we cannot have it all.

That we used 2 on Lobb to fill the gaping hole of ruck relief for English on our list. One that pre-dates my more recent concerns about the quality of our depth by multiple of years was in my view not a high price to pay. He may or may not end up elsewhere next year, but that is neither here nor there as at the time it was the correct trade to make and shaped as the final piece of a puzzle. And no amount of revisionism is going to change that fact.

I’m well aware of that, which is even more reason to suggest that it was in fact a decently big cost….

That is exactly the point, I was okay with the cost considering the need although everyone here agrees it was overs, but that’s fine you have to do what you have to do to get the missing puzzle pieces.

If we turn around and flog him off for chips this year then yes that is entirely relevant, and it would be a huge Red Cross on the performance of our list management. How is that revisionism? It’s entirely relevant

 

[Foxman98]

I’m well aware of that, which is even more reason to suggest that it was in fact a decently big cost….

That is exactly the point, I was okay with the cost considering the need although everyone here agrees it was overs, but that’s fine you have to do what you have to do to get the missing puzzle pieces.

If we turn around and flog him off for chips this year then yes that is entirely relevant, and it would be a huge Red Cross on the performance of our list management. How is that revisionism? It’s entirely relevant

Your wanting Sam sacked over 2 mid 30s picked is the issue

I remember in 2019 when all you numptys wanted us to trade our first rounder for Keath/Bruce and were slating Sammy off all window for us to end up getting both done without using 1sts and managing to pick up Weightman with it

Sure bag the trade in isolation but to ask for Power to be sacked is just ridiculously stupid and one of the biggest overreactions you've had and thats saying somethin

 

[Norm De Guerre]

That's exactly how it will play out. I'd rather be ruthless though.

Its an easy statement to make when (presumably) you have no skin in the game

I'd offer Naughton a 5 year deal with a trigger for 2 more at a Mill a year.

Sounds about right.

English a 3 + 1 year deal at 800k

That will not get the job done. Its also massive risk given unless we want to run Darcy into the ground like we did with English early to fast track him that we have literally nobody coming up underneath if we low ball English in the way that you suggest.

His management understand that with the departure of Sweet that there is now more juice to be squeezed.

Smith a 3 year deal with a trigger for 2 more at 700k plus incentives on games played, B&F top 3s and good behaviour that can take him to 900k a year

I sense that he's never going to be the player that we expect, but he is somebody who will command top freight with us, or somebody else. Clubs will always overpay for a guy like him.

The only players I'd give a 7 year deal to would be Bont level guys.

Even them only if they trade of some dollars for the security of a long term deal.

 

[adogsfan5]

How have I done a 180? He played his role fine but given how the better teams play his role isn't as necessary

If we had a new coaching group and senior coach for next year, would you have been willing to see him in a new system for a year?

 

[weltschmerz]

Hurstwaite played 2 games for bottom 3 Hawthorn Oli Hotton didn't play a single game for the saints despite them continuing to blood youth who were either of them getting a gsame over when Gallagher, Cleary and Clarke couldn't get a game despite the first 2 in particular having fantastic seasons in the VFL

For what it's worth, he was out half the year with a back injury.

 

[doggies ftw]

Because nothing we missed out on would've had any impact last year nor looks even remotely like a quality pick up

Dude what are you even talking about honestly you talk some shit

You can’t just decide that everyone drafted after pick 30 literally 1 year ago is shit because they didn’t play in their first year, and then half of what we gave up hasn’t even been used yet so how can you say we missed out on nothing? Oh that’s right you’ve just decided that everything after pick 20 this year is shit too because you’re the resident draft expert around here & know so much

Honestly mate just give it a rest, it’s painful watching you dig these holes. People are allowed an opinion, honestly yours is worth shit but we still let you have it, can’t you just accept that other people see things differently ffs

 

[Foxman98]

If we had a new coaching group and senior coach for next year, would you have been willing to see him in a new system for a year?

Not really no I think we need to move away from the overly tall forward line

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I’m well aware of that, which is even more reason to suggest that it was in fact a decently big cost

That is exactly the point, I was okay with the cost considering the need although everyone here agrees it was overs, but that’s fine you have to do what you have to do to get the missing puzzle pieces.

If we turn around and flog him off for chips this year then yes that is entirely relevant, and it would be a huge Red Cross on the performance of our list management. How is that revisionism? It’s entirely relevant

If is doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting in your last sentence.

 

[doggies ftw]

If is doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting in your last sentence.

And that was the premise of the whole post you quoted in the first place if you remember? Obviously we can’t talk in facts on something which has not happened yet