Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Charlie Bucket]

All this talk about how good English is up forward.

His best return as a predominantly fwd line player in 2021 was 3 goals more than this year as an 80%+ AA ruckman.

Fair enough if that’s the role you’d prefer him to play, but let’s not re-write history.

 

[Foxman98]

All this talk about how good English is up forward.

His best return as a predominantly fwd line player in 2021 was 3 goals more than this year as an 80%+ AA ruckman.

Fair enough if that’s the role you’d prefer him to play, but let’s not re-write history.

He had 1 good game against Brisbane in Ballarat and then kicked 3 when we dicked on North but that is about it,

His ruck stats are almost identical to Rowan Marshall and I don't see any Saints fans wanting him to drop to a 50/50 split

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Tim kicked 19 goals in 2021 as a fwd/ruck.

Must mean Lobbs 24 goals this year has him up there as the best fwd/ruck in history.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

He had 1 good game against Brisbane in Ballarat and then kicked 3 when we dicked on North but that is about it,

His ruck stats are almost identical to Rowan Marshall and I don't see any Saints fans wanting him to drop to a 50/50 split

It’s the grass is always greener mentality of some of our supporter base.

We also see it with those wanting Richard’s moved from the backline.

 

[lachy]

All this talk about how good English is up forward.

His best return as a predominantly fwd line player in 2021 was 3 goals more than this year as an 80%+ AA ruckman.

Fair enough if that’s the role you’d prefer him to play, but let’s not re-write history.

My opinion is many are judging English against the traditional ruck role.

Developing intially as a mid before a growth spurt will see him change completely the role of a ruck once he fully matures in the next 2 years and then for the 4 years after that.

It is a transitional change.

Yes he should play some forward, particularly when he is not having a good game around the ground, but should be a ruck for 70 to 80% of the time

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[Libbaaaa]

I think you’re getting way too hung up on his goal kicking here. When people say back to his 2021 finals form I think we’re talking more generally, no one is actually expecting him to kick 2 goals a game. That’s prime GAJ level for a midfielder.

I could very easily imagine him averaging 28 and 0.5 goals a game which would be an exceptional return for a midfielder

Agree 2 goals a game is a stretch but my point remains that those two finals game were so special because he hit the scoreboard. What stands out is his goals on the run in the 4th at the Gabba, his snaps from 40m v. Port. Yes he played well in general but the goals elevated his performance from good to great.

 

[TiAn_]

You’d ruck English the whole game without a second thought if he didn’t get his pants pulled down in the ruck contest every 2-3 weeks. It’s a weight around the neck of the team for one of your four midfielders to be consistently beaten at his role in the contest.

The issue isn’t just his own ruck work, which has improved over the years, it’s how impactful he allows his opponent to be. I checked and he gave up career or season high hitouts to his opponent on 9 occasions this year. Getting rolled in there by a debutante was embarrassing.

He’s clearly aware of his shortcomings in ruck craft, based on his admission last night. And he does a ton of work outside of the ruck contest and that is the trade off we have to accept. But unless he improves at negating his opponent in there, it will always be a weak link in our chain.

 

[Dog 36]

You’d ruck English the whole game without a second thought if he didn’t get his pants pulled down in the ruck contest every 2-3 weeks. It’s a weight around the neck of the team for one of your four midfielders to be consistently beaten at his role in the contest.

The issue isn’t just his own ruck work, which has improved over the years, it’s how impactful he allows his opponent to be. I checked and he gave up career or season high hitouts to his opponent on 9 occasions this year. Getting rolled in there by a debutante was embarrassing.

He’s clearly aware of his shortcomings in ruck craft, based on his admission last night. And he does a ton of work outside of the ruck contest and that is the trade off we have to accept. But unless he improves at negating his opponent in there, it will always be a weak link in our chain.

I would have thought the MC would have tried Sweet in the ruck to see what our midfield could do with a better tap ruckman. What would have our clearances looked like and what would it have meant for our forwards.
We know what it looked like with English but we will never know what a big body, better tap ruckman and one that would create space for the midfielders.

At least should have been tried in the last 2 wasted years.

 

[adogsfan5]

I would have thought the MC would have tried Sweet in the ruck to see what our midfield could do with a better tap ruckman. What would have clearance looked like and what it would mean for our forwards.
We know what we it looked like with English but we will never know what a big body, better tap ruckman and one that would creates space for the midfielders.

At least should have been tried in the last 2 wasted years.

We should have done it when they dropped Lobb.

 

[Foxman98]

I would have thought the MC would have tried Sweet in the ruck to see what our midfield could do with a better tap ruckman. What would have clearance looked like and what it would mean for our forwards.
We know what we it looked like with English but we will never know what a big body, better tap ruckman and one that would creates space for the midfielders.

At least should have been tried in the last 2 wasted years.

They did when English was out last year it wasn't that effective

 

[ringa5]

People really underestimate how helpful Naughton is to Jamarra not only on the field but id wager it makes it damn easier to resign JUH as well.

Hope it happens.
Then they get a specialised kicking coach for the whole preseason.
Snaps,short passing included.
Then poise in traffic for Jamarra.
And midfield coaching for Naughton to break lines.

 

[Dog 36]

They did when English was out last year it wasn't that effective

When Sweet played the teams win loss ratio suggests otherwise and at the very least suggested it was worth trying a little more

Save you typing it doesn’t matter who we played

 

[Hobdog]

Cornes can’t help himself can he. Teeing off on the Naughton contract. Conveniently forgets that the guy is still very young, talks don’t peak until later, and he’s versatile, so comparing him to other key forwards is a moot point.


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[Dogs Rule]

Cornes can’t help himself can he. Teeing off on the Naughton contract. Conveniently forgets that the guy is still very young, talks don’t peak until later, and he’s versatile, so comparing him to other key forwards is a moot point.


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He just has a thing about long term contracts. Just wait until Horne Francis gets one....

 

[Dog 36]

Cornes can’t help himself can he. Teeing off on the Naughton contract. Conveniently forgets that the guy is still very young, talks don’t peak until later, and he’s versatile, so comparing him to other key forwards is a moot point.


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He is forgetting that Naughton would become a free agent in a couple of years and would get offers for 7 years from other clubs at that point.

 

[Dogsman16]

Kane is a ****ing idiot. If he had his way we would have let him go due to Collingwood offering a 10 year deal, Collingwood the club who basically has nothing to offer in terms of high draft picks or decent players who would actually want to leave a premiership winning team.

Basically he’s advocating that we voluntarily get screwed. ****ing deadbeat.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Kane is a ****ing idiot. If he had his way we would have let him go due to Collingwood offering a 10 year deal, Collingwood the club who basically has nothing to offer in terms of high draft picks or decent players who would actually want to leave a premiership winning team.

Basically he’s advocating that we voluntarily get screwed. ****ing deadbeat.

He's an outrage merchant. Thrives on it. Everything is an outrage. Us giving Naughton eight years an outrage, not giving Naughton eight years, an outrage. Doing something, outrage, not doing anything, outrage.

You just don't feed the beast.

 

[Foxman98]

When Sweet played the teams win loss ratio suggests otherwise and at the very least suggested it was worth trying a little more

Save you typing it doesn’t matter who we played

When Sweet played we played teams that weren't high on the ladder,

It's also ridiculous to assume we won all those games because Sweet played in the ruck,

Look at the clearance stats they hardly change

 

[Libbaaaa]

Cornes can’t help himself can he. Teeing off on the Naughton contract. Conveniently forgets that the guy is still very young, talks don’t peak until later, and he’s versatile, so comparing him to other key forwards is a moot point.


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He's been consistent in his criticism of long term contracts so you can't look at this as an attack on the Dogs or Aaron. But what Kane fails to do is adapt as times change, these contracts are the new normal, elite players at each club are getting 6, 7, 8 years, mid tier players are getting 4, 5 and the rest whatever. Rozee and Butters are going to get 7 year deals from Port, it is what it is.

If you scratched beneath the surface a bit you would find Kane is probably just a bit bitter that the modern day player is getting paid more (deservedly so as well). Same thing happens in the NBA, all the old guys just criticise and bang on because the players are making so much more than they are.

 

[adogsfan5]

Cornes would be salivating if Port offered him 8 years.

 

[Dog 36]

When Sweet played we played teams that weren't high on the ladder,

It's also ridiculous to assume we won all those games because Sweet played in the ruck,

Look at the clearance stats they hardly change

Show me one clearance stat that measures quality of clearance

Who we played is irrelevant we should know that after West coast game.

 

[VitalDread]

Tim English said it himself tonight on stage ''Ruckcraft isn't my strong point'' then credited Sweet as being a better tap-ruck than him.

I do agree, he looks better as a fwd-ruck than a ruck-fwd, nothing will change my mind on that.

English warm up leap is higher than any other forward
Crazy we don't play him more forward

unmatchable

 

[Testekill]

Also does Cornes suggest we let Collingwood or West Coast swoop in and give Naughton a ten year contract that we refuse to match?

 

[Lee]

Believe he was also one of the players who went to watch the first VFL final post season.

He as at the semi final vs Box Hill, was hanging with Marra and English for most of the game as well

 

[Here we go dogs]

I know his done it here and there for us, but could Treloar play full time wing next season.